Solar Panels & Lithium Batteries: Recommendations--Ignore Cost!!

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by billandeva

Quick question from a newish owner. To simplify and DIY a lithium upgrade from solar package AGM could I/should I?
1) Pull all wires into the forward berth and mount 3xlithiums under the bunk and reconnect
2) Do a 2x lithium drop in to the existing battery box and then mount the third in parallel on top of the extisting battery box in a box of its own. I have not seen or heard of this by anyone and maybe for good reason.
Presently have 2021 25 Globetrotter with 180 w solar upgrade, 2 agms, and 180w solar suitcase. Works ok but would like a little more storage for easier extension of boondocking time. Prefer a diy option as no local installers and am solar is 2500 miles.
Thank you
Bill

Hi

Way easier to put two in the battery box and one, two or three under the front bed.

Keep in mind that the converter charger will need to be a lithium compatible unit and that your solar stuff needs to be set up for lithium voltages. That and fiddling the charge wire to the 7 pin pretty much gets the major stuff done.

None of this is crazy hard. It all is DIY compatible. Just set aside enough time to get the job done.

Bob

[Sophiehaus]

I have a 2018 FC 25. I installed a new Lithium WFCO converter, a new Atkinson lithium solar charger and two new Battle Born lithium batteries in the existing battery box. Everything was a direct replacement with no additional wiring required, total cost = $1900. . It works great for boondocking since that’s all we do. I do have the factory solar option (160 watts Zamp solar panels on roof), a 120 watt Zamp suitcase and a backup generator for when we get a string of cloudy days.

[BT2513]

Originally Posted by foobar

I don't think the setup is published yet. Nor have I sold a kidney yet in order to pay for it

There are a large number of modifications or upgrades. I'll pare the list down to mostly the energy system related changes and then I will try and list some of the other changes below that. I'll probably forget something. I apologize in advance if I do.

Here we go:

• Inverter: Victron Multi-plus II 2x120 3KVA 120 amp charging capacity
• Batteries: 4x Victron 330ah "gen 2" batteries
• Shunt: Victron 1000A Smart Shunt
• Control: Victron Cerbo GX
• Display: Victron GX Touch70
• Solar Controller for roof array: Victron SmartSolar 150/85 - Tr
• Solar Controller for portable array: Victron SmartSolar 150/45 - Tr
• Busbars: Victron 600A bus, qty 2x
• BMS: Victron BMS-VE
• Tow Vehicle Charger: Victron Orion Smart 12-12-18 DC-DC
• DC Breaker Panel: BlueSea 8403 (13 breakers) to replace DC rats nest in front corner of the trailer and for fine mgmt of DC loads
• DC Breaker Panel: BlueSea ?? 8 breakers for control of new equipment in A/V cabinet
• SeeLevel Display: Replaced factory display with model 709-N2K-NLP-MO so fresh/grey/black levels can be monitored by Cerbo GX/Touch 70
• USB charging ports: Replaced 5 factory ports with Powerwerx quickcharge Panel USBQC4.0 ports and added a new charging port in A/V cabinet
• External SB50 Anderson receptacle 1: 50A port for portable solar array
• External SB50 Anderson receptacle 2: 50A external 12v for high power external DC appliances like Viair compressors (can pull up to 33A)
• BlueSea Cigarette sockets: qty 3x (front locker, curbside locker, a/v cabinet)
• Misc DC-DC converters: 12-24v for Powerwerx USB QC ports, 12-48v for starlink, 12v-5v for 4K UHD HDR HDMI splitter,
• 12v power conversions: Upgraded to Sony 4K UHD HDR Blu-ray, 12v power
• EMS/Surge: Hardwired Hughes Watchdog 50A w/bluetooth
• Easystart: Micro-air easystart added to both A/C's
• Thermostat: Swapped Dometic for micro-air Easytouch
• Solar panels: 7x Zamp Obsidian 100w panels
• Solar feed: Upsized to 4 gauge for low resistance
• Installed TST TPMS repeater, powered directly from 12v supply

There are lots of other modifications/upgrades (not a complete list):

• irvwpc water pump controller
• Hella 12v marine fans (2x, one per twin bed bunk, fed via powerwerx anderson bulkhead connectors)
• Fantastic Fan replaced with Maxxair fan
• single glaze factory skylights replaced with Maxim triple glazed skylights
• LevelmatePro+ (powered directly from 12v supply)
• Replace 720P TV's with 32 inch Samsung 4K UHD HDR TV's
• Install Roku Ultra's behind each TV, powered directly from 12v via anderson receptacles
• Added optical audio cable from lounge TV to factory stereo
• Upgraded HDMI cables to 4K UHD HDR Optical HDMI cables
• Starlink stuff: 1. swapped cable/SAT external bulkhead for Smartplug TV+Ethernet-jack, 2. 12v-48v DC-DC, 3. POE injector+lightening/surge
• Cellular modem stuff: 1. Pepwave BR1 PRO 5G, 2. Mobility 42G antenna, 3. AP One AX Lite wifi access point
• Axles: Swapped 3800 GAWR axles for 4200 GAWR axles with built in 3" lift kit
• Centramatic automatic wheel balancers
• Hub Odometer (Trailer Life Meter 714 for 15" wheels)
• Replaced tire valve stems with metal valve stems
• Aluminum propane tanks (to reduce tongue weight) with built in propane level sensors that are connected to Cerbo GX for level sensing & display
• Upsized the lp-port from 1/4" to 3/8" to support high volume loads like 2x Honda EU2200i generators and Campchef Ranger II stovetop
• Replaced all a/c supply registers with high flow, quiet aluminum grates
• Replaced both pairs of a/c return registers with the new, larger, quiet 2023 Globetrotter return air registers with merv8 filters
• Replaced Girard Tankless hot water heater with Truma w/ 12v freeze protection
• 4000K LED light strips installed in all external storage compartments and the wardrobe cabinet
• Installed "push to open" yacht style pushbutton latches on the cabinets and drawers "most likely to open while towing" on rough roads
• 2x mokerlink 12v Gigabit Ethernet Switches (one in A/V cabinet, another under the fridge (w/new access panel))

That's all I can recall for now. Basically, I bundled up all of the upgrades that Airstreamers often implement over the course of the trailer adventures (gleaned from 5 months of reading airforum postings, plus a few ideas of my own) and tried to get them all done at one time in order to save money, hassle, and time. If you are gutting some of the interior and pulling new wires/cables, it makes sense to only do this labor once.

Time permitting, I might start a separate thread on this project. However, it's not quite as interesting to other DIY'ers because I had A&P Vintage Trailer Works handling most of these upgrades so I won't necessarily be 100% solid on some of the techniques used to do some of this these changes.

I spent about 5 months after we ordered the trailer coming up with the system design for all of the electrical/energy system changes and coming up the the list of the other changes/upgrades that I wanted to get done. A&P Vintage Trailer Works was my partner in getting this done and provided some great ideas of their own once they understood what my goals were.

Side note: most of the critical trailer systems will now be able to monitored and controlled remotely via Starlink and/or pepwave cellular modem.

It appears that you've done some moderate rewiring on your Airstream. Did you remove interior or exterior panels to accomplish this? If so, how hard was it to do? I have a riveter and a set of Airstream rivets but am a bit nervous when it comes to removing and reinstalling panels. I've replaced popped rivets no problem.

There are a few things I would love to "correct" on my 27FB including getting rid of the 10+ feet of cellular antenna cable that they installed for what is essentially a 2' distance as well as putting more outlets on the inverter circuit.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by BT2513

It appears that you've done some moderate rewiring on your Airstream. Did you remove interior or exterior panels to accomplish this? If so, how hard was it to do? I have a riveter and a set of Airstream rivets but am a bit nervous when it comes to removing and reinstalling panels. I've replaced popped rivets no problem.

There are a few things I would love to "correct" on my 27FB including getting rid of the 10+ feet of cellular antenna cable that they installed for what is essentially a 2' distance as well as putting more outlets on the inverter circuit.

The folks at A&P Vintage Trailer Works in Paradise, TX (they specialize in restoration of vintage Airstreams) did my upgrade work.

Generally they were able to fish cables through the wiring traces within the underbelly with minimal removal of cabinetry. Only one interior aluminum panel was removed in the rear curbside corner in order to add a couple of conduits to run new ethernet and hdmi cables to the upper rear cabinet where I installed all the a/v equipment, cellular modem, wifi router, ethernet switches, etc.

They say removing an interior is pretty straightforward. Drill out the rivets, then re-rivet after replacing the panel.

I ignored the pre-installed roof cellular coax and simply had A&P mount my own pepwave cellular antenna on the rear roof area close enough to the pepwave cellular modem such that the 4ft cables built into the antenna could be attached directly to the pepwave.

[BT2513]

Originally Posted by foobar

The folks at A&P Vintage Trailer Works in Paradise, TX (they specialize in restoration of vintage Airstreams) did my upgrade work.

Generally they were able to fish cables through the wiring traces within the underbelly with minimal removal of cabinetry. Only one interior aluminum panel was removed in the rear curbside corner in order to add a couple of conduits to run new ethernet and hdmi cables to the upper rear cabinet where I installed all the a/v equipment, cellular modem, wifi router, ethernet switches, etc.

They say removing an interior is pretty straightforward. Drill out the rivets, then re-rivet after replacing the panel.

I ignored the pre-installed roof cellular coax and simply had A&P mount my own pepwave cellular antenna on the rear roof area close enough to the pepwave cellular modem such that the 4ft cables built into the antenna could be attached directly to the pepwave.

Thanks for the info - one more question which is bugging me. How did you do the SeeLevel NMEA 2000 upgrade? I'm debating between this model and the newer RV-C model but have no idea how I'm going to make the physical connections to my GX device. Contemplating a wireless solution...

[foobar]

Originally Posted by BT2513

Thanks for the info - one more question which is bugging me. How did you do the SeeLevel NMEA 2000 upgrade? I'm debating between this model and the newer RV-C model but have no idea how I'm going to make the physical connections to my GX device. Contemplating a wireless solution...

Yes, I did the Seelevel upgrade. The cerbo gx support for the nmea 2000 version of the seelevel panel is much better than the support for the RV-C protocol. So you can guess which one I used and would recommend.

[BT2513]

Originally Posted by foobar

Yes, I did the Seelevel upgrade. The cerbo gx support for the nmea 2000 version of the seelevel panel is much better than the support for the RV-C protocol. So you can guess which one I used and would recommend.

That’s interesting. I’ve been reading up on it and it seems like there are pros and cons to both. How did you make the physical connections? Did you run new cabling in the wall in the kitchen? Is the Cerbo located right there as well? In my case, the GX unit will be located under the front twin in the electrical compartment and the SeeLevel is in the galley. I’m looking into wireless options but I’ll have to run an NMEA/Micro-C wire somewhere and can’t determine the best way to do that.

[foobar]

Originally Posted by BT2513

That’s interesting. I’ve been reading up on it and it seems like there are pros and cons to both. How did you make the physical connections? Did you run new cabling in the wall in the kitchen? Is the Cerbo located right there as well? In my case, the GX unit will be located under the front twin in the electrical compartment and the SeeLevel is in the galley. I’m looking into wireless options but I’ll have to run an NMEA/Micro-C wire somewhere and can’t determine the best way to do that.

I have the Cerbo Gx installed under the fridge in my 2022 globetrotter 27fb twin. I can access it via a new pop out panel that was added next to trailers main breaker panel. The victron Touch 70 display is on the rear fridge bulkhead above the lounge TV alcove. The seelevel display is below the TV. So the canbus cable length is short and running the cable was straightforward.

A&P Vintage Trailer Works in Paradise, TX did my installation as part of my fairly extensive trailer upgrades. The first two photos are of the cerbo gx in the under fridge compartment. The last photo was taken during the upgrade project. You can see the touch 70 display above the upper alcove on the rear facing fridge bulkhead and the location of the seelevel display below the TV.

I would go with the nmea 2000 version of the seelevel display. It is a proven solution and preserves the canbus for future use as the nmea 2000 protocol is a subset of the normal canbus system. If you go with the RV-C version, since the RV-C protocol is different than standard canbus, the cerbo gx will permanently switch to the RV-C protocol. You won't be able to attach other victron canbus stuff in the future.

[BT2513]

Ahhh that makes sense. Unfortunately my SeeLevel unit is above the counter near the sink/stove. That makes my job a lot harder.

[trsvax]

I'm thinking about ordering the Bluetooth one and writing a driver. I messed with a C prototype and was able to put random data into the Cerbo. If I can get motivated I'll order the gauge and write one in Python. That would make it easier to distribute.

In a past life I've written code for underground gas tank monitors, got to be easier than trying to run a wire in an Airstream.

[Crackerman]

Running a single wire in an airstream is a breeze.

It takes a cat-6 with 2 different ends. One 3m type connector, the other with Ethernet cable type b standard

[foobar]

Originally Posted by trsvax

I'm thinking about ordering the Bluetooth one and writing a driver. I messed with a C prototype and was able to put random data into the Cerbo. If I can get motivated I'll order the gauge and write one in Python. That would make it easier to distribute.



In a past life I've written code for underground gas tank monitors, got to be easier than trying to run a wire in an Airstream.

The built-in Bluetooth in the cerbo gx is not reliable and should not be used for long term communications according to Victron.

If you want to go this route, install an external Bluetooth USB dongle. Victron has a list somewhere of dongles that are known to well. I didn't save the link unfortunately.

[trsvax]

I installed an external bluetooth dongle a while ago and added Ruvvi temperature tags and Mopeka propane tank monitors. The are rock solid. I'm now convinced this will work.

I've also got Venus OS running on a Raspberry PI and wrote some code to put data down the dbus. I was able to send GPS data from a Peplink and make it appear as a GPS device to the Cerbo. Very handy.

I've actually worked with Garnet before. I built a small device similar to a Cerbo running ARM Linux. It could among other things read underground tanks and transmit over the internet giving the delivery companies real time tank level data.

Next on the list is get the new Peplink OS running. I suspect it will improve bonding Starlink and cell.

Too much IT work to be done. Probably should go camping or something.

[BT2513]

Originally Posted by trsvax

I installed an external bluetooth dongle a while ago and added Ruvvi temperature tags and Mopeka propane tank monitors. The are rock solid. I'm now convinced this will work.



I've also got Venus OS running on a Raspberry PI and wrote some code to put data down the dbus. I was able to send GPS data from a Peplink and make it appear as a GPS device to the Cerbo. Very handy.



I've actually worked with Garnet before. I built a small device similar to a Cerbo running ARM Linux. It could among other things read underground tanks and transmit over the internet giving the delivery companies real time tank level data.



Next on the list is get the new Peplink OS running. I suspect it will improve bonding Starlink and cell.



Too much IT work to be done. Probably should go camping or something.

This is great - I’m also running VenusOS on an RPi (as well as experimenting with Signal-K on several others). Would love to send the GPS data from my Peplink to VenusOS.

My plan of action so far was to run an NMEA trunk to the (to-be-purchased) SeeLevel NK2 and then somehow route the other end through the skin behind the kitchen drawers to an RPi unit mounted back there with a PiCAN-M HAT. Not sure how to interface the two RPi units so was looking into Signal-K. There might be an easier way though…

Would love to eventually have a 3rd RPi unit running Plex in the media cabinet that’s also connected to the NMEA port on the JL Audio MM50 so the sound system can be controlled remotely. That’s obviously less important but would be cool nonetheless.