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03-26-2010, 10:43 AM
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#41
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hjlairf
Thanks for this very informative thread and photo essay. For those of us contemplating solar installation, your thread is very helpful. Hank
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Thank you Hank. I had hoped it might be useful to others contemplating something like this. Perhaps people can learn from my mistakes...
-evan
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03-26-2010, 10:49 AM
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#42
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mello mike
Although AGM batteries are fine in their own right and give you more options, I don't see how choosing to go with Golf Cart Batteries is a bad choice. LOTS of RVers use GC batteries, myself included.
I respect Lew's opinions quite a bit (he helped guide me in installing my Freedom 10 Inverter-Charger) and would be interested to know exactly why he said AGMs were a better choice.
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Hi again Mike,
Thanks for the reassuring comments.
Lew's comment to me was this:
Quote:
The only place where you cheated yourself is with your batteries. AM Solar responds especially well to AGM batteries like Lifelines. In fact, they are the only batteries that I will use when I install AM Solar charging systems.
Many reasons like never having to touch them once installed, much quicker re-charge rates due to their very low internal resistance, and very low self discharge, also due to the low internal resistance.
That should be your next upgrade!
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I accept the idea that the AGM's will perform better under high draw situations or if one were going to go to 4 batteries & some would have to be in the living space compartment. Then AGM would be a definite choice, but I simply wasn't sure that at more than twice the price, that they would be worth the extra cost to me. Maybe Lew is correct & I'll be upgrading in the future, but I have a hunch these GC batteries will do the job well enough. We'll see on this next trip.
-evan
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03-26-2010, 10:51 AM
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#43
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexZen
Outstanding post eheffa!! Thanks for the "guided tour" through your installation. Your post illustrated quite a few of the my concerns regarding solar panel installs. Kudos.
Joe
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Thank you Joe. There are are always an amazing number of decisions that need to be made during these sorts of projects. I hope that others might find some of my experience helpful; even if only as to knowing what not to do.
-evan
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03-26-2010, 11:31 AM
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#44
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I approve of this message
2006 28' International CCD
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
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Evan - I noticed the panels looked different. Is the center panel the new AM100-M monocrystalline panel? I have a the same system, but with 1 AM100 and am planning to add 1 AM100-M. Curious how well they played together. Thanks!
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03-26-2010, 12:38 PM
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#45
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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There are some people who install AGM's inside because they are supposed to be sealed. But some say they have vents and therefore it may not be wise to put them inside. I do not know the conclusive answer, but given the nature of battery gases, I think if I were thinking of installing AGM's inside, I'd want to know.
Gene
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03-26-2010, 12:49 PM
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#46
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Rivet Master
2005 19' Safari
GLENDALE
, AZ
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,453
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The Prius uses an AGM battery for 12 volts, and it is stored in the trunk. It has vent tubes to the outside in case it out-gasses.
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03-26-2010, 02:23 PM
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#47
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostream
Evan - I noticed the panels looked different. Is the center panel the new AM100-M monocrystalline panel? I have a the same system, but with 1 AM100 and am planning to add 1 AM100-M. Curious how well they played together. Thanks!
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That was a pretty astute observation ostream.
I didn't mention that I initially ordered the two panel kit & later decided that I would get a third panel. The third panel from AM Solar does look a little different & has a very different wiring harness (Heat sealed connectors & no connector box). I just thought they were cosmetically different & it never occurred to me that they might be a different technology. AM Solar made no mention of any incompatibility issues. I'll have to ask,but I doubt that there will be a problem. (Maybe you should ask Roger at AM Solar & see what he says. I'd be interested in his answer but I may email him too.)
Under cloudy skies when I was wiring the panels they all registered similar voltages to each other (around 24V)but their current producing capabilities may vary I suppose.
I'll let you know if there seem to be any issues.
-evan
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03-26-2010, 06:22 PM
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#48
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4 Rivet Member
Currently Looking...
San Diego
, California
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 331
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Evan: You're Hired!
This is a great post. Thanks for sharing it.
Randy Bowman
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03-27-2010, 08:21 AM
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#49
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I approve of this message
2006 28' International CCD
Redmond
, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
That was a pretty astute observation ostream.
(Maybe you should ask Roger at AM Solar & see what he says. I'd be interested in his answer but I may email him too.)
-evan
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From Roger - "AM100 is a polycrystalline panel, AM100-M is a monocrystalline panel (a little better performance in lower light conditions). Functional specifications for both panels are almost identical (we designed the AM100-M to be compatible with the AM100). Physical dimensions for both panels are the same."
Cheers
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03-27-2010, 08:42 AM
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#50
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4 Rivet Member
1954 22' Flying Cloud
1954 25' Cruiser
2005 25' International CCD
Paradise
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
You're probably right. In retrospect, I could have probably got away with using the factory pre-wire with the 3 panels (~35 amps max?) . I didn't want to compromise on all this though & went with the higher spec. Would I do it again?
I'm not sure but I suspect that knowing what I know now, I might install the panels using the stock pre-wire & if I were seeing currents in the 30 + range add the 8 AWG wire as a revision.
-evan
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An easy work around in that situation would be to wire the panels in series and or parallel depending on how many panels you have so that you are sending 24v to the charge controller. This will decrease the required wire size due to the higher voltage. The caveat is that your charge controller must be capable of accepting the higher voltages and outputting the desired voltage of your system. Most charge controller companies have MPPTs that are capable of doing this.
__________________
Paul Mayeux
A&P Vintage Trailer Works, Inc.
AirForums #1565
WBCCI #7162
Heart of Texas Camping Unit
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03-27-2010, 09:55 AM
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#51
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ostream
From Roger - "AM100 is a polycrystalline panel, AM100-M is a monocrystalline panel (a little better performance in lower light conditions). Functional specifications for both panels are almost identical (we designed the AM100-M to be compatible with the AM100). Physical dimensions for both panels are the same."
Cheers
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Thanks ostream,
That's a pretty definitve answer. I am impressed that I am getting pretty good output from the system even with fairly low angle or overcast skies.
Yesterday at around 5pm with milky sun, I put on all the overhead halogens & was seeing 9 amps of charging current.
I'm pleased so far.
- evan
- evan
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03-27-2010, 10:01 AM
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#52
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 62 Overlander
An easy work around in that situation would be to wire the panels in series and or parallel depending on how many panels you have so that you are sending 24v to the charge controller. This will decrease the required wire size due to the higher voltage. The caveat is that your charge controller must be capable of accepting the higher voltages and outputting the desired voltage of your system. Most charge controller companies have MPPTs that are capable of doing this.
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Hi Overlander
The panels produce 24 V output. In parallel, they don't overload the controller which would not handle 48 V from a series install.
The wiring as it is should do the job and I don't think it will have any significant voltage drop with the wiring as it is.
Now if we were to want to go to more than 4 panels, that would require a whole re-design.
-evan
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03-27-2010, 04:50 PM
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#53
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eheffa
Yesterday at around 5pm with milky sun, I put on all the overhead halogens & was seeing 9 amps of charging current.
- evan
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Now is the time to get LED's to replace the halogens and save even more battery power. But some LED's don't fit the reading lights as well because the pins are too short. I made some adaptations to get them to fit.
Gene
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03-27-2010, 11:31 PM
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#54
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4 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Victoria
, BC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfordGene
Now is the time to get LED's to replace the halogens and save even more battery power. But some LED's don't fit the reading lights as well because the pins are too short. I made some adaptations to get them to fit.
Gene
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Ha! ...we've had this discussion before. We've grappled with many of the same issues it seems
I know the Halogens are real power hogs but I do like the quality of their light & especially with the dimmers, they can give a very nice mood to our little nest. (Most of the current LED's will not allow dimming I understand although there are some newer ones out now that can be dimmed.)
I have replaced the reading light halogens as well as half of the dual light fixtures in the bathroom & kitchen with LEDs . I have yet to find any that have a truly pleasing spectrum though. They are either too cool or the Warm white ones have a very sickly green hue to them. I too got caught buying LED's that were too short & had to solder finishing nail extensions onto them to get them to fit the reading light fixtures.
Cheers.
-evan
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03-28-2010, 07:33 AM
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#55
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3 Rivet Member
1964 26' Overlander
Gloucester
, Virginia
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 167
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I love solar panels and if I could afford it I would cover my entire RV with them!! Nice work!
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04-09-2010, 07:23 AM
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#56
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1 Rivet Member
2010 16' Sport
portland
, Maine
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5
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now that you have the panels installed, what will they run? is it just like being plugged in to 30 amps (full use of AC, TV, etc.)? thx.
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04-09-2010, 08:24 AM
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#57
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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The panels charge the batteries and the batteries will run lower amp things like lights and Fantastic fans for a long time. High amp appliances like A/C, microwave would drain the batteries very fast. Things like TV will run for a while, but will drain the batteries pretty quickly I think, but never have tried the TV since when we are boondocked, there's no TV reception. The radio/CD player doesn't seem to take too many amps.
The furnace fan draws a lot of amps, but is a necessity when it's cold.
Evan may have a full report when he returns from his Southwest trip.
Gene
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04-09-2010, 10:48 AM
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#58
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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Increasing AWG from 10 to 8 lowered your losses on a 25-foot wire run from 4~ to 2~% and is a very good decision --- Keeping losses below 3% is a inexpensive & immediate upgrade paying dividends back every time the Sun shines.
Of all the tips and hints there are to think of the only thing that comes to mind is a bicycle lock style steel cable (vinyl coated) just in case a panel has help loosening up but is not actually stolen - or a combination of those conditions. Anchor points and locking cable could keep the teenager with a swiss army knife from ruining your day but if they come with bolt cutters its a non-issue...
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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04-09-2010, 11:24 AM
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#59
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Master of Universe
2008 25' Safari FB SE
Grand Junction
, Colorado
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 12,702
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I think the concerns about someone stealing your solar panels on an Airstream may be minor. It's hard to climb up to the top of the trailer without a ladder. Other RV's come with ladders attached and make it much easier to steal their panels. Of course, you could grease the upper side of the trailer to make it even more difficult and reverse the polarity of the electrical cable and make the skin sizzle; a moat would increase protection in that case.
Gene
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04-09-2010, 03:49 PM
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#60
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Rivet Master
1973 27' Overlander
Currently Looking...
Jupiter
, Florida
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,060
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You know Gene is right, the bored delinquent finding an unoccupied Airstream fortuitously left somewhere away from authority figures if/when some emergency called away the owners would probably just see if it burns instead of prying off the $1800 shiny blue electrickery panels.
__________________
The days are short and the night is long and the stars go tumbling by.. . ~Airstream~
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