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Old 01-23-2025, 04:11 PM   #1
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2024 27' Flying Cloud
Redmond , Washington
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 11
Solar and Lithium Upgrade Plan – What am I missing?

I am in the process of upgrading our new 2024 FC27FBT with solar and lithium batteries. I have been reading through many posts on this forum and also watching several videos on YT to learn as much as I can before taking on this project. I think I am getting close but wanted to run my plan by the DIY experts here to see what I may be missing. So, if you have a moment, please take a look at let me know if I am on track or if I missed something minor or critical to this being successful.

Overview:
Replace factory lead acid batteries with 2 100Ah Lithiums. (I plan to add two more in the future if this does not meet my needs)
Add a shunt to monitor the batteries.
Install 4 100W solar panels on the roof with room for 2 more in the future.
Install a solar charge controller.

Gear (some I have already purchased, some I will be ordering soon)

Batteries: BattleBorn GC2 100Ah (2)

Panels: Renogy RNG-100D-SS (4)
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr.../dp/B07JXYTFF7

Controller: Victron MPPT 100|50.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073ZJ43L1

Shunt: Victron IP65 500
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BF636VBX

Panel Mounts: I am ordering them from AirstreamNutsAndBolts. They are pricy but I am hoping that they are better quality and easier to use than the stock ones on Amazon.
And I will be covering the panel mounts with Sikaflex 221. I plan to get 2 tubes.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O9VFLRS

Rooftop Wiring:
I plan to wire the panels in series separately on each side. This should allow me to use the existing 10AWG wiring in the solar prewire from the factory.
I will be using this wire harness to connect them:
https://www.amazon.com/MOOKEERF-Sola.../dp/B0C892M8HC
Not sure if I need an extension between the panels for serial connection. Probably.

I will be securing the wires to the roof with stick on cable zip tie mounts.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L4CX58B

Controller Installation:
Inside the DC wiring area under the passenger side bed, I expect to find the solar prewire which is where I will mount the MPPT controller. I will run the positive prewire through this disconnect switch:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2K800
And then into the controller using 10AWG wire.
I am thinking I could mount the switch so it is accessible from the cabinet opening under the bed. How important is it to be able to turn off the solar without accessing the DC Circuit area (requires tools)?

From the controller I will be connecting to the positive DC busbar through one of these breakers. (Not sure which one to go with yet. I don’t know anything about these brands. Opinions? Better options?)
T Tocas: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PBGMMNZ
Len Rad: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYXV5LB
Red Wolf: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJFHS6W7
I plan to use 6AWG wire to make the connections from the controller to the busbars.

Shunt Installation:
I am planning to mount the shunt in the battery box with the GC2s. I have purchased some 4/0 2’ wires with ends already crimped. I will use this to connect the shunt to the negative on the batteries. Looking for ideas on how best to mount the shunt in the box. Bolt it to the side? VHB Tape?

Any tips on things to make this easier or better? I have borrowed a hydraulic crimper and cutting tools from a friend for making custom cables. Not sure if I will need them yet.

What about programming? Where do I get the correct settings for the Victron gear? Does Victron provide those or do I call BattleBorn for them? Should I connect the gear to the battery first and program it before installation?

Future plans are to add 2 more panels to the roof, double the batteries and move them inside, DC-DC charging from the truck, upgrade to a Victron charger/inverter with all the goodies (Lynx, Cerbo, etc). But for now, I just want to get a reliable system for light boondocking and keeping the fridge running while traveling.

Thanks for looking at my plan and for any suggestions you can share.

-John
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Old 01-23-2025, 05:29 PM   #2
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That's an excellent list. I'm a little in front of you (but not much) as far as installs. I had Airstream install the Solar Controller (Victron mppt 100/30 I believe) swapped out my AGM's in the box for twin LiTime 100ah batts. They have worked great. Ive installed the same Victron shunt. Had to buy some busbars to mount on both sides of the Battbox. Lessons learned: Should have gone back into the trailer under the bed where the battery cables entered the trailer and mounted my bussbars there. That being said, I also should have also mounted a quick battery disconnect when I installed the busbars but there was no marine store nearby. On my list of projects. I have a 2017 23 FBT so I had to swap out the Converter to a Lithium friendly one. Found 5 90w long Obsidian B-Stock panels for a 100ea on the Zamp site and ordered those. I dont think I have the real estate for the 5th panel so it will probably be a spare. I didn't want to totally re-wire trailer so am swapping out my factory 1k converter for a Victron Phoenix 12/1200. Ordered but not yet installed. Also picked up a Cerbo GX and a 5' display on the cheap and will be plugging those in as well. I want to use the existing wiring so "serial" wiring of the panels into the pre-wire junction box is the plan. Lessons learned: The Phoenix isn't "smart" or "blue" so the Cerbo is the solution as I'll be able to use the iPhone for Inverter control. Future: Hire an RV electrician to install two more batts, upgrade the Phoenix to a Multiplus. So far having a great time without gutting the electrical system. More designed for easing into it.
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Old 01-23-2025, 09:08 PM   #3
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John, I've always been told that all batteries in a battery bank should be the same age and capacity. I would think that adding the additional batteries shortly after the initial installation wouldn't be much of an issue, but adding them a year or two later might be.


I'm beginning the planning for our installation now, based on what we did in the previous SOB. There I went with a pair of 24 V 200 AH LiFePO4 batteries, which gave me 9600 WH of power. I had 1100W of solar on the roof. This time around I'm going to stick to 12 V, but otherwise I'm looking at a similar setup.


Batteries are heavy and take up a fair amount of space. Sometimes you can buy a battery that is only a little bit bigger on the outside but has a lot more capacity on the inside. Those batteries I had in the SOB, as 12 V, 400AH ones, have the exact same capacity and are the same size and price, so that's why I'm going back to 12V this time.
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Old 01-24-2025, 01:56 PM   #4
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You can get your own mounts made by sendcutsend.com using my .dxf files. They are modeled after AM Solar's mounts.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6895690
I got 8 sets made for just over $200 shipped in stainless. I'll be using stainless rivnets with M6 stainless bolts.
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Old 01-24-2025, 09:01 PM   #5
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cool tip, if you tab all the parts together and snap them apart yourself, it's cheaper. line them all up so they can bend them all at once, and 20 parts cost slightly more than one part
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Old 01-25-2025, 09:04 AM   #6
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Olive Branch , Mississippi
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Have you checked how many panels will fit on top? I am planning a solar upgrade in a few months. I have a 27' and was thinking 10 panels. It looks like you were going up to 6. Was that due to space limitations or just all you cared to install?
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Old 01-26-2025, 10:22 PM   #7
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Kansas City , Missouri
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Following your build! We are in the process of doing pretty much the exact same build. I have 4 100aH battle born batteries and 400w of solar I need to install. Just need to get a charge controller next.
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Old 01-27-2025, 02:51 PM   #8
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I only got 2 batteries to start because I wanted to start small and simple and see how much capacity I needed. I also wanted to keep them in the battery box instead of modifying the interior of the AS to accommodate larger batteries. In the future I might go with a larger bank and get one of those Victron 3000W inverter/chargers but this setup should be a good place to start. If I need to replace the batteries entirely instead of adding to them, I could always sell or repurpose the ones I bought now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by os1r1s View Post
Have you checked how many panels will fit on top? I am planning a solar upgrade in a few months. I have a 27' and was thinking 10 panels. It looks like you were going up to 6. Was that due to space limitations or just all you cared to install?
I was basing 4 panels on the 200Ah of batteries I am starting with. And I planned on going to 6 panels if I doubled the Ah in the future. That seemed to be the consensus for how much solar/Ah I would need. I do not know how many panels would fit on the roof if I completely covered it, but I do want to try to avoid shadows from the AC units and also keep reasonable access to the roof for cleaning and maintenance. So, 4-6 seems like a good place to start. Not sure what panels you were looking at, but the Renogy ones seemed to have good reviews in the community. Also, they were on sale for only $75/ea. They are 41.8 x 20.9 x 1.38 inches. I am sure I can fit 6. Maybe 8 if I pack them tighter. Let me know what panels you are going with and their size.

Anyone have an opinion on which breaker brand to go with? I need to pick one and get the order placed.

Who put their shunt in the battery box? Any tips on mounting it? Should I put it in the AS instead where the main negative cable comes in? Not sure what the best option is but I want to be sure I can use the BT comm without too many issues. That battery box is a bit of a Faraday cage so I am not sure if I can get a good signal out of it.

Thanks again for the comments and suggestions.
-John
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Old 01-27-2025, 05:17 PM   #9
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I had a similar concern on adding additional batteries of a different age so I called Battleborn and they told me 2 year difference was right on the edge assuming older batteries were still taking full charge.
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Old 01-28-2025, 03:33 AM   #10
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Ounce Victron smart shunt mounted in battery box…. You get about 10’ of range. In retrospect I should have mounted it inside the rig. That being said, it will be easy to relocate in the future. Reasoning for battery box: the two LiTime batts are Bluetooth as well so I figured:
1. I’ve already got limited BT range to monitor the batts, 2. I use the smart shunt’s batt temp monitor so proximity to the batts was a no-brainer. 3. All easily monitored while inside sitting on the front bed. So far I’m monitoring Bluetooth w/o issues on the individual batts, the smart shunt’s batt temp, the smart shunt itself, the mopeka, tank monitors and I’ve got my TST booster mounted on the outside of the batt box. So far so good. Again about 10’ of range.
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Old 01-28-2025, 02:49 PM   #11
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Forest Lake , Minnesota
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Quote:
I plan to wire the panels in series separately on each side. This should allow me to use the existing 10AWG wiring in the solar prewire from the factory.
It's 8AWG if that affects your calculations. That will support about eight 100W panels in parallel by my envelope calculation. I'm always leary of series since any shading wipes out a lot of the power. But you might know a lot better. Our 300W of panels are in parallel from the factory. I think on the Trade Wind all 600W are in parallel as well.
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Old 01-29-2025, 04:57 AM   #12
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Thanks Jeff. I went with the Zamp Obsidian 90w long labels. They are thin enough to stay out of (for the most part) the AC shadow if mounted close to quietstream edge. Probably could have gone w 100w but it would have put em right up against AC (I’ve got 23FB with a clean unobstructed run from bow to stern on both sides and old style side vent fridge so no roof fridge vent). I was reading the whole “Aren’t CIG panels great” threads till I bumped into they overheat and die in a year sub-thread. Just opted for tried and true rigid panels.
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Old 01-29-2025, 10:37 AM   #13
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The Woodlands , Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forester2 View Post
I had a similar concern on adding additional batteries of a different age so I called Battleborn and they told me 2 year difference was right on the edge assuming older batteries were still taking full charge.
Interesting, I did not get that info. I'm about to add a 3rd BB100 to my two existing 4yo BB100s because I wanted a little extra capacity since we now have a DC powered fridge. The GT propane fridge never cooled properly, especially in TX.

Part of the upgrade also includes going from 1/0 to 4/0 wires so I don't get any low voltage alarms when we use the MW.
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Old 01-29-2025, 11:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dst View Post
Interesting, I did not get that info. I'm about to add a 3rd BB100 to my two existing 4yo BB100s because I wanted a little extra capacity since we now have a DC powered fridge. The GT propane fridge never cooled properly, especially in TX.

Part of the upgrade also includes going from 1/0 to 4/0 wires so I don't get any low voltage alarms when we use the MW.
I'm a little skeptical about the limitation of adding new batteries to older banks. I know BB wants everything to be balanced and perfect, but they are looking at battery banks that get cycled over and over. We might go through 50 charging cycles in a season with our camper, not thousands where battery capacity starts to degrade. So I doubt it would be that noticeable. Same goes for mixing battery brands. A hard and fast time limit seems arbitrary unless the cells degrade on their own. I'm not a battery head, maybe there's someone who knows better.
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Old 01-29-2025, 11:49 AM   #15
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Another Idea

Been on the road mostly full time for over 5 years now. Splitting the lithium solar install between tow vehicle and airstream definitely has its benefits esp for boondocking which we do 1/2 the time. Have some posts under my name if interested. Only recent upgrade not mentioned was adding a 100 watt flex panel mounted as needed to the front fold up window guard and plugged into stock ZaMP plug near battery box that came with 2018 fc fb, then connected in series to Victron mmpt. It’s amazing how little (solar panels and battery capacity) you need in ideal conditions (summer sun position, no shade) compared to less than ideal conditions (winter sun angle, cloudy days, camping under tree cover etc), hence the need for redundancy. We have never owned a generator but lean heavily on the tow vehicle solar/ alternator/lithium bank during the dark days. On ideal days the 400 watts of panels on the airstream roof produce so much energy that I required the fridge circuit so it runs off the inverter for about 16 hours a day.
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Old 01-29-2025, 12:11 PM   #16
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AirKrafters

Just though as you have a clean slate.

Depending on where you live Ronnie Dennis in Alabama or Vinnie’s Airstream Repair in California consider the under frame AirKrafters propane generator that they interagency into you Airstream Coach. You still will need one GC3 lithium.

After myself going down the $$$$ rabbit hole of a very nice 50 amp Victron 810 amps of Cerbo controlled with DC-DC Lithium system I should have opted for the generator. If it I had a brand new trailer that would be my choice now. Very quite clean propane and can power all AC’s in the trailer.
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Old 01-29-2025, 12:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlokanis View Post
Rooftop Wiring:
I plan to wire the panels in series separately on each side. This should allow me to use the existing 10AWG wiring in the solar prewire from the factory.
I will be using this wire harness to connect them:
https://www.amazon.com/MOOKEERF-Sola.../dp/B0C892M8HC
Not sure if I need an extension between the panels for serial connection. Probably.

I will be securing the wires to the roof with stick on cable zip tie mounts.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L4CX58B
Others have said:

Two solar panels wired in series:
1) will produce higher voltage and lower amperage,
2) will work best in open, unshaded areas -- however, if one panel is faulty or in the shade both panels are effected,
3) will be more productive early or late in the day -- minimum required voltage will be attained sooner,,
4) will have less voltage drop over same length and gauge wire,
5) can require less wiring.

Two solar panels wired in parallel:
1) will produce lower voltage, higher amperage,
2) will work better in partial shade -- if one panel is faulty or in the shade only that panel is effected,
3) will be less productive early and late in the day -- minimum required voltage will be attained later,
4) will charge faster at peak sun hours, and
5) will have more voltage drop over the same length and gauge wire,


Wiring solar panels in parallel is generally better when camping East of the Mississippi, and wiring solar panels in series is generally better when camping West of the Mississippi.
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Old 01-29-2025, 01:07 PM   #18
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West Sacramento , California
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Dc to dc charging

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlokanis View Post
I am in the process of upgrading our new 2024 FC27FBT with solar and lithium batteries. I have been reading through many posts on this forum and also watching several videos on YT to learn as much as I can before taking on this project. I think I am getting close but wanted to run my plan by the DIY experts here to see what I may be missing. So, if you have a moment, please take a look at let me know if I am on track or if I missed something minor or critical to this being successful.

Overview:
Replace factory lead acid batteries with 2 100Ah Lithiums. (I plan to add two more in the future if this does not meet my needs)
Add a shunt to monitor the batteries.
Install 4 100W solar panels on the roof with room for 2 more in the future.
Install a solar charge controller.

Gear (some I have already purchased, some I will be ordering soon)

Batteries: BattleBorn GC2 100Ah (2)

Panels: Renogy RNG-100D-SS (4)
https://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Monocr.../dp/B07JXYTFF7

Controller: Victron MPPT 100|50.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073ZJ43L1

Shunt: Victron IP65 500
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BF636VBX

Panel Mounts: I am ordering them from AirstreamNutsAndBolts. They are pricy but I am hoping that they are better quality and easier to use than the stock ones on Amazon.
And I will be covering the panel mounts with Sikaflex 221. I plan to get 2 tubes.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O9VFLRS

Rooftop Wiring:
I plan to wire the panels in series separately on each side. This should allow me to use the existing 10AWG wiring in the solar prewire from the factory.
I will be using this wire harness to connect them:
https://www.amazon.com/MOOKEERF-Sola.../dp/B0C892M8HC
Not sure if I need an extension between the panels for serial connection. Probably.

I will be securing the wires to the roof with stick on cable zip tie mounts.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L4CX58B

Controller Installation:
Inside the DC wiring area under the passenger side bed, I expect to find the solar prewire which is where I will mount the MPPT controller. I will run the positive prewire through this disconnect switch:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000K2K800
And then into the controller using 10AWG wire.
I am thinking I could mount the switch so it is accessible from the cabinet opening under the bed. How important is it to be able to turn off the solar without accessing the DC Circuit area (requires tools)?

From the controller I will be connecting to the positive DC busbar through one of these breakers. (Not sure which one to go with yet. I don’t know anything about these brands. Opinions? Better options?)
T Tocas: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PBGMMNZ
Len Rad: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MYXV5LB
Red Wolf: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJFHS6W7
I plan to use 6AWG wire to make the connections from the controller to the busbars.

Shunt Installation:
I am planning to mount the shunt in the battery box with the GC2s. I have purchased some 4/0 2’ wires with ends already crimped. I will use this to connect the shunt to the negative on the batteries. Looking for ideas on how best to mount the shunt in the box. Bolt it to the side? VHB Tape?

Any tips on things to make this easier or better? I have borrowed a hydraulic crimper and cutting tools from a friend for making custom cables. Not sure if I will need them yet.

What about programming? Where do I get the correct settings for the Victron gear? Does Victron provide those or do I call BattleBorn for them? Should I connect the gear to the battery first and program it before installation?

Future plans are to add 2 more panels to the roof, double the batteries and move them inside, DC-DC charging from the truck, upgrade to a Victron charger/inverter with all the goodies (Lynx, Cerbo, etc). But for now, I just want to get a reliable system for light boondocking and keeping the fridge running while traveling.

Thanks for looking at my plan and for any suggestions you can share.


-John
You should do the dc to dc charger in the initial phase. That way you will arrive with s full charge at the end of the day.

Imho, you should max out the number of panels.
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Old 01-29-2025, 01:58 PM   #19
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Ann Arbor , Michigan
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 67
Did a head to head test, series vs series parallel

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f37...ml#post2759000

PS
Airstream increased solar wire size to 8 gage as early as 2018 models
I
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Old 01-29-2025, 02:10 PM   #20
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Lakeland , FL
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I think you mentioned installing the two initial batteries in the AS battery box. But if you are considering adding two more I'd install the first two on the interior with room for the additional two.
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