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Old 12-01-2014, 06:06 PM   #1
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New Airstream! :) Solar Panel and Generator?

Hi All,

My wife and I have just very recently purchased a new 2015 FC 23FB! We are very excited! We can't wait to take delivery of the unit, and go out on our first of many adventures together!

The unit comes with the factory installed solar bundle (53watt panel + 2 glassmat batteries + a control display). We plan to do a considerable amount of 'boondocking', and our power needs will be: heat fan, lighting, radio, maybe a little tv (we have 1000W inverter in the unit - I think this allows us to watch tv?), and to operate the water pump.

The question we have for the forum is the following: should we wait and see how the solar performs in recharging the battery during the day, or should we take advantage of some sales going on, and buy a 2000w Honda/Yamaha generator? If you have the solar package mentioned above, your thoughts and experiences would be great! We tend to think to wait and see how it all works out before making a considerable purchase.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Mimi and Dan
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:30 PM   #2
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I had solar on my former SOB. I found my 100 watt topped batteries, but cloudy days and shady trees and we did not have enough charging. With the Airstream, I am electing to have two good batteries, park in the shade, and no solar. Living my life without excess I can last 5 days on batters everything you said including fridge fan, but no TV since we never turn it on.
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Old 12-01-2014, 07:39 PM   #3
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Just so you know, the water pump runs only on your units 12 volt system. There is no need for solar or gender power to make it work.
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Old 12-04-2014, 01:48 PM   #4
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53 watts for two batteries is pretty low. Probably just meant to keep the batteries topped up while in storage If you are a heavy 12v user while boondocking 53w may not replenish your batteries by then end of the day. Most roof solar is above 200 watts. You could always get a portable 160w or 200w solar panel (Zamp), add more panel to the roof or a 2000w generator. Hopefully the solar controller in your AS would allow you to add more panels.

I'm taking a trip next June to North Rim Grand Canyon, Zion and Bryce staying at the park campgrounds so I'm deciding whether to purchase a 2000w generator or a 200w portable solar setup. I'm leaning to solar.

Kelvin
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #5
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You made a great choice in trailers. We have the 2014 FC 23FB. We do a lot of Boon docking and like to have all the conveniences of home. For that reason we have a generator to run the microwave coffee maker etc. and charge the batteries. We went with the Honda 3000 for the rare occasions when we want to use the A/C. We don’t have solar but plan to install it in the near future so that we don’t need to run the generator for long periods of time to charge the batteries. In my opinion I would get a generator and after you use your AS for a while you might decide to add a second solar panel. Good luck with your new AS.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:36 PM   #6
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We have the stock Airstream solar set up and it is fine for keeping the batteries topped up (a real blessing ) and provided you have good sunny conditions, will recharge the batteries after a day/night of use. However, if you have cloudy days and or shade, all bets are off as the 2 stock batteries do not have a lot of reserve.

We will be significantly upgrading our solar/battery system next month to 675 watts of panels on the roof and four golf cart batteries with a total of 440 AH capacity under the bed (AGM's.) We currently have 180 AH capacity in our AGM batteries. Our new setup is probably overkill but that's how we roll!

I would hold off on buying the generator until you've had a couple of trips under your belt. It is so nice not to have to deal with that particular piece of equipment.

If you must have AC, then a generator (or a pair) is the only way to go. We plan to move to avoid the need for AC or on rare occasions where there is no choice, will duck into a facility that has AC power.
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Old 12-04-2014, 02:55 PM   #7
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Hi -- there are so many variables to the "solar question" that your question is hard to answer. How many days in one place (because driving recharges)? How much do you run the heater? How many days in a row will you be off-grid? How many amp-hours are your batteries? Etc.


From our experience camping in mixed conditions my first guess is that 53 watts is not going to get you very far. I suggest 200 watts minimum, and then see how things go for you. Upgrading to 6volt golfcart batteries will help, too. (We have done both, and are going several days unplugged in mixed solar and temperature conditions with full battery charges by noon.)

As AnnArborBob said, if you want to run the A/C while off-grid a generator is your only option, and then the solar question becomes one of how less often do you want to run the generator.
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:18 PM   #8
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Here too, new Airstream, new solar panel and the generator question. After my recent extended trip I'm kind of glad that we didn't go right out and buy a new gennie. So far the solar panel has been doing an amazing job. I'm taking a wait and see attitude, not really sure that I need a new generator right now (six weeks ago I was all set to buy one.)
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Old 12-04-2014, 03:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danandmimi View Post
Hi All,

The unit comes with the factory installed solar bundle (53watt panel + 2 glassmat batteries + a control display). We plan to do a considerable amount of 'boondocking', and our power needs will be: heat fan, lighting, radio, maybe a little tv (we have 1000W inverter in the unit - I think this allows us to watch tv?), and to operate the water pump.

The question we have for the forum is the following: should we wait and see how the solar performs in recharging the battery during the day, or should we take advantage of some sales going on, and buy a 2000w Honda/Yamaha generator? If you have the solar package mentioned above, your thoughts and experiences would be great! We tend to think to wait and see how it all works out before making a considerable purchase.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Mimi and Dan
Our custom order for our 23' Airstream Safari included 2 - 53 watt panels, which work well for us when doing non-hookup camping for 5 days, as documented in my thread, Factory Installed Solar Charging System.

If you just ordered your trailer and it has not been built yet, you might want to have your Airstream dealer contact Airstream and update your order to at least 2 solar panels (I think three can actually be placed on the roof of a 23' trailer).

Congratulations and good luck with this!
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:01 PM   #10
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I'm in the camp that says you're not going to have enough wattage for the load you're planning on using. I have a 150 watt panel on top, plus an 80 watt portable. I would like to have another 150 watts on top. Maybe a flexible panel...
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Old 12-04-2014, 05:07 PM   #11
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We have the stock (2) 53 watt solar panels and (2) Lifeline AGM batteries. In sunny conditions the batteries are usually recharged before noon each day, but cloudy days provide little. The two batteries are manageable with our use if fully charged each day.

So the solar is good enough as is, will probably put in the next size larger AGM batteries when these finally wear out, but not until.

I would hold off on the generator for two reasons. You may do very well with the stock solar system when you learn to live within it's capabilities, we do and no longer bring a generator on our extensive annual travel. And living on the east coast you may decide you must have air conditioning for summer camping, and a 2000 watt generator is not enough. You may also decide boon docking isn't all that great and seek sites with electrical hookup.

Know that advice on this forum tends to go into overkill as a solution quickly, whether it be solar, generator, tow vehicle, or trailer size. Management of what you have is a better strategy.
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Old 12-05-2014, 07:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkottum View Post

Know that advice on this forum tends to go into overkill as a solution quickly, whether it be solar, generator, tow vehicle, or trailer size. Management of what you have is a better strategy.
Oh, no Doug, you spoiled it! I was going to next implore him to get an F-450 dually diesel which is the "minimum safe vehicle" needed to safely pull a modern 23 foot Airstream!
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Old 12-05-2014, 10:20 AM   #13
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Hi from AZ. . . I thought the factory/dealer installed solar was 2 53 watt panels & 2 additional AGM batteries. . . . it was on our '05 . Works fine for keeping batteries charged, does ours. regards, Craig
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:01 AM   #14
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Do all of the new Airstreams have LED interior lights? -- That's where I would start, if they don't...
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Old 12-05-2014, 11:24 AM   #15
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Congratulations on your new Airstream, Mimi and Dan. You will love it!

We have used our new-to-us 25' Flying Clouds for about five weeks of camping now and although we have a slightly different set-up, our experience would lead me to believe that your solar panel will not be enough if you use the heater much. If you use the heater much, your solar panel might not be enough since the heater fan is a major energy draw and your solar panel will probably not have the capacity to recharge your batteries after a cold night. After a few cold nights, you might be drawing your batteries below an optimal level because the solar panel will not be recharging them enough during the day.

You could consider a portable solar panel to help charge your batteries on days where the little one is not enough or a combination of a portable solar panel and 2000W generator, which would give you options based on cloud cover. The latter combination could meet your needs pretty well if you are going to be in some colder areas or areas where cloudy days are common.

We have calculated our basic 12V usage (RV systems like the water pump and propane detector, heater fan, Fantastic Fans, stereo and lights - no TV) to be about 50 to 60 amps per day on a typical, nice weather day with some conservation efforts. Your solar panel will probably only generate about 15 amps per day on a sunny day. You can see how the gap in what you are producing and using will widen over a few days without something more than the small panel. Your trailer is a little smaller than ours (and a few years newer) so your usage may be lower, but just with this basic calculation (based on our use, not your use of course), your solar panel may not be enough.

We decided try our trailer on one long trip before deciding on a solar solution, which might be a good option for you, too. Our decision... Because we do not want to spend the $10,000 we were quoted for an "ideal" solar set-up, we bought a 2000W generator, are going to get a 200W portable solar panel, enlarge our battery bank, and possibly get a smaller (like 300W) roof-mounted solar system in the future after we see how often we actually want to boondock since we are big on visiting national parks.
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Old 12-05-2014, 12:31 PM   #16
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Not enough!

Congrats on your new Airstream!

We unfortunately also ordered Airstream's solar package when we ordered our 2009 28' new. We find it to be virtually worthless for boon docking in three ways:
The two 56 watt panels that came with ours do not generate enough replacement power, especially in winter, spring or fall, or in areas where you don't get full sun all day. The supplied batteries were good quality, but 12 volt--six volt batteries rigged in pairs hold double the storage. The 700 watt inverter was adequate for the setup, but not adequate for a more robust one. And finally, the supplied controller, is a one-stage instead of a three stage charger (flood, regular, and trickle charge) to help your batteries reach their max lifetime. We tried it for one California mountain February weekend, and with the furnace cycling on and off all night, we awakened to dead batteries--in both the Airstream and Suburban. We were quite shocked to find out that there was no cutoff switch to prevent the Airstream batteries from draining the Suburban battery (we now automatically unplug every night if we're traveling.)

Our quick solution was to replace the 2 12 volt batteries with 4 Lifeline AGM's, increasing our storage to 440amps. Because Lifeline advises never draining batteries below 50%, that gives us 220 amps effective storage. We then replaced the controller with a BlueSky and remote--the main unit is under our forward lounge, and the remote replaced the Airstream controller. Then we added two 80 watt panels so that we now have 272 on the roof. These were the most powerful panels made narrow enough to fit. Finally, I replaced all of the halogen bulbs with LED's--your new Airstream comes with them, which is great--the LED's use literally 1/10 the amps.

The Lifeline batteries were a little too tall to fit in the front box, so the guys extended the box 1/2 inch higher. The second pair are under the front lounge next to the subwoofer. We may move them under the rear bed--we have had the left front tire blow twice now in 4 years, and I'm thinking that it's not a coincidence--that's an extra 160-180 lbs forward and left!

If we were to do it all from scratch, I'd do the same batteries, either all aft or 1 pair fwd and 1 aft, use the same excellent!!! controller, and take advantage of the way more powerful panels available now at same width and go for at least 350 watts total. The inverter would be 2000-2500, not 700, to allow judicious use of microwave or AC in bursts on high-light days. This should NOT cost 10k!!!!

Our experience with our current setup is that in Texas in March on the beach, where it will often be overcast until 1 or 2 pm, and you can count on a storm every five days or so, we have no problem at all for two weeks of boon docking, using primarily lights, stereo and reefer only, while also charging iPhones/computers and other low draw devices We can't use the AC with our inverter, and if we use the furnace it's definitely a significant draw down. We don't use the TV boon docking. We don't use hair dryers, and microwave again is not an option with the smaller inverter.

On other solutions, personally we don't like generators--in tight quarters, they're not considerate for neighbors, and you have to figure where to store them and gas tanks. Portable panels present the storage problem, and require setup time, of course, but they are an excellent solution. A gentleman that we meet in Texas every year has 1 100w panel that he puts on a metal stand that has a crude "sight" on it so that every hour or two he can adjust the angle (vert and horiz) to the sun. Because his panel is always almost perfectly aligned, he get similar charge to 4 panels lying on the roof!

All the advice about trying it first is excellent! We boondock a lot less with our Airstream than we did with our Fleetwood. We just love being able to use all the power we need in the elegance of our "yacht!" You can see if your habits change before you spend more $$$. But the extra portable panel or (if you must!) a generator, are a wise temporary investment if you're going to boondock for more than a weekend with your current setup. Smart to find the solitary panel narrow enough that it can later go on your roof if you decide to expand your solar.

Have fun!
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Old 12-05-2014, 01:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by danandmimi View Post
Hi All,



My wife and I have just very recently purchased a new 2015 FC 23FB! We are very excited! We can't wait to take delivery of the unit, and go out on our first of many adventures together!



The unit comes with the factory installed solar bundle (53watt panel + 2 glassmat batteries + a control display). We plan to do a considerable amount of 'boondocking', and our power needs will be: heat fan, lighting, radio, maybe a little tv (we have 1000W inverter in the unit - I think this allows us to watch tv?), and to operate the water pump.



The question we have for the forum is the following: should we wait and see how the solar performs in recharging the battery during the day, or should we take advantage of some sales going on, and buy a 2000w Honda/Yamaha generator? If you have the solar package mentioned above, your thoughts and experiences would be great! We tend to think to wait and see how it all works out before making a considerable purchase.



Thank you for your thoughts.



Mimi and Dan

Mimi & Dan,

I hope that you enjoy your FC23FB - we've enjoyed ours for almost 4 years and 40,000 miles, with lots of great boondocking.

I installed my own solar, adding 85w panels one at a time. The first 85w was fine in full sun sites, but in deep forest or cold rainy days it proved inadequate. Three 85 w panels now seem to do it for us in all conditions, and I have roof space for one more should our consumption increase. Two GP 24 AGM batteries serve well. One issue with the factory solar install, other than the cost, is the wire size, inadequate for additional capacity. I had 8 AWG cable run to a Blue Sky 2000e controller by my purchase dealer, so adding additional panels myself was really easy. If I were starting over at this point, I'd install 100w panels of about the same dimensions.

I retired my Yamaha 2400is generator after one season of little use. Great machine, but we just don't use the aircon or microwave enough while boondocking to bother carrying the generator. Offered the Yamaha for sale, yet still have it in the garage.

Safe Travels,
JamuJoe


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Old 12-05-2014, 03:59 PM   #18
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need generator

The solar panel most likely won't keep up with your demand and of course the sun is not always out. You didn't mention A/C but if you plan on cooling you will need two generators or one big one at least 3500 watts. Honda makes 2000 watt generators that can be linked together with an accessory. Otherwise, you can get by with a small 1000 watt generator to keep the battery fully charged. If you have the microwave/convection combo you will need a 2000 watt generator. At least on my 2014 unit the microwave draws over 1000 watts. You hear most about the Honda units which are time tested but I think there are other similar systems, I believe Suzuki has one but I could be wrong. Bottom line is that you most likely won't enjoy all your features without some extra power or a huge solar system.
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Old 12-05-2014, 05:14 PM   #19
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"If we were to do it all from scratch, I'd do the same batteries, either all aft or 1 pair fwd and 1 aft, use the same excellent!!! controller, and take advantage of the way more powerful panels available now at same width and go for at least 350 watts total. The inverter would be 2000-2500, not 700, to allow judicious use of microwave or AC in bursts on high-light days."

Gecko,
I'm remodeling a gutted 72 Tradewind and plan to put 2 batteries in a box on the tongue and 2, somewhere else.
With all the posts of rear end separation, how would you avoid that problem with putting 4 batteries Aft?
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Old 12-05-2014, 06:04 PM   #20
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I am about to do it over again with a '15 Classic 30. I'll add 600W of solar panels (AM Solar set-up), 3 GP27 AGM Lifeline's, a 2000W inverter, upgraded converter, and a Honda EU3000i Handi for generator power. I think the question about "what you need" is so dependent on how, where and when you use your trailer. I can't imagine not having a generator for A/C when you're out in the heat of the south or southwest come summertime...
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