Lithium batteries: A comprehensive guide

[TouringDan]

I am signing on to learn from this thread.

Dan

[pdavitt]

Originally Posted by Rhinno

Generally you can take energy _from_ lithium cells down to about -20C, but cannot _charge_ below 0C. This, and the fact that they don't produce any gas means that mine are installed inside under the bed. If the trailer is occupied, you have bigger problems if its 0C under the bed. If the trailer is _not_ occupied, there is no need to charge. I do have a temperature sensor to make sure there is no charging from solar (or other) if the temperature falls below 0C.

I am in Ontario and store my trailer over the winter when we might experience severe cold. I fully disconnect the lithium pack, mostly to make sure there are no phantom loads. Lithium is _way_ better for loss of charge over the winter (a few %). For me this is a big advantage over what I used to do with lead acid: take them out of the trailer and keep them on a battery tender.

Hope that helps.

There are actually three temperature ranges for Lithium batteries(Charge, Discharge, and Storage). They vary from manufacturer to manufacturer so check with your supplier.

For my Victron HE 24V batteries they are:
Operating temp. charge 0~45°C
Operating temp. discharge -20~55°C
Storage temp. -20~55°C

What are the storage recommendations and how long will they last in storage? Below is an excerpt from my Victron HE battery manual:

"1.3 Transport and storage
On storage or transport of the product, ensure that the battery leads are disconnected. No liability can be accepted for damage in transit if the equipment is not transported in its original packaging. Store the product in a dry environment; the storage temperature should range from –20°C to 55°C.

1.3.1 General storage instructions of Lithium-ion batteries
The best way to store Lithium-ion batteries is at a State-Of-Charge (SOC) of 60%. Check the voltage of the stored Lithium-ion battery periodically. If the voltage is dropped below the cut off level, recharge it. The battery management system (BMS) electronics always have a leakage current which will eventually empty the battery. The weekly consumption of the BMS inside a Lithium-ion HE battery, when not connected to the Lynx Ion BMS, is approximately <2Wh.

1.3.2 Storage instructions of a complete system (Lithium-ion batteries with BMS)
Lithium-ion batteries will permanently damage when fully drained. The system has a small self-discharge which needs to be taken into account when storing the system. When storing a complete system, make sure that the Lynx Ion BMS is set in standby mode (for instructions see chapter 5.2).

• Standby consumption 24V Systems: 75mW for the Lynx Ion BMS (standby).
• Standby consumption 48V systems: 145mW for the Lynx Ion BMS (standby).

Two calculation examples:
• A full single 24 Volt battery connected to a Lynx Ion BMS which is in standby will last approximately 2570 days. The same system, but then automatically switched to standby mode due to under voltage will last approximately 128 days.
• A full 48 Volt system with two batteries in series, connected to a Lynx Ion BMS which is in standby will last approximately 2700 days. The same system which has automatically disconnected and switched to standby mode due to under voltage will last approximately 135 days."

Pat

[waninae39]

i removed our BB Lion battery before it got cold
i then placed the older Lead acid battery in, just so that system could work over winter storage

here is the temp of the Lead acid battery

the BB LION are inside now, i charge them up once a month with a smart charger

[AndyKeene]

This is my first post on this forum, as the title indicates. I typically don't post my experiences simply because of the critics that seem to have to nit-pick every detail to death. In spite of my hesitation I simply had to post my Lithium experiences. You can do the same or better than I did, just do it! I have destroyed more batteries in my lifetime and made more mistakes than I will own up to.

Background: 22 years of living on a 37 foot sailboat, sailing 99,000 nautical miles, owning and using 4 different Class C motorhomes, and using insulated shipping containers as my workshops. I built and used solar systems to power them all. Remember that above noted statement bout destroying batteries.

My wife and I bought a 27 foot 2017 Flying Cloud with the optional solar system on it. 200 watts of Zamp panels and all the associated lightweight components that go with it. I, of course wanted to install more panels and really max out the capabilities for boondocking and simply because I could. I started and found that the Airstream or any small living space (still much bigger than the living space on my boat) was difficult to adapt to additional equipment. I also did not want to increase tongue weight and ding up the Airstream. So, I built a 1000 watt solar system with a 6,000 watt inverter and 8 lithium batteries with an 80 amp MPPT charge controller and put it all in my tow vehicle and call it my solar generator. I use the stock power cord from the Airstream and plug it into an outlet on the truck. The solar panels are mounted on a 14 foot plywood platform bolted to the aluminum ladder rack on the contractor shell.

We can boondock with the best and live quite comfortably with or without AC. When we are in an RV park with 30 amp service we don't even plug in. When 50 amp service is available I plug the truck in, and pipe the power to the Airstream. At the same time the grid power is charging the batteries if needed, which is very rare.
Our Dodge Ram 3500 longbed with crew cab barely notices the Airstream and any additional weight in the bed or contractor shell.

So, I read the reviews the same as you do on YouTube and elsewhere, where 11 year old kids give us their interpretation of life as they know it. I do learn a lot on YouTube and really enjoy a good laugh now and then. I don't take a lot of pictures for the world to see simply because I have in the past on other interests and find that people that don't want to take the time to do their own research and make their own mistakes. Not trying to be hyper-critical, especially on my first post, but I got totally turned off reading about codes and specs from people who don't seem to really do anything other than talk...

And no, I am not going to give the specs and item numbers and details of the stuff this is all made up of, there are many sites that go into great detail for that.

[NoResults]

So for $15,000. dollars you can brag about your system. Why not design a quiet generator and save thousands.


So you don't need to plug in when in an RV park. So what you are paying for the electricity.



Dave

[ROBERT CROSS]

....I have a new system too, two lithiums, a Zamp suitcase, Victron monitor, and a 60w Boondocker.
Together with a 12yr old Honda 2000i, we have managed to survive Ok. 😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by AndyKeene

This is my first post on this forum, as the title indicates.

I use the stock power cord from the Airstream and plug it into an outlet on the truck. The solar panels are mounted on a 14 foot plywood platform bolted to the aluminum ladder rack on the contractor shell.



We can boondock with the best and live quite comfortably with or without AC. When we are in an RV park with 30 amp service we don't even plug in.

Andy

Welcome to Airforums. Folks like you that have lived on a boat know all about boondocking and it looks to be much harder than boondocking with an Airstream, so you are way ahead of the game.

I am learning that there are lots of different ways to boondock. One is really no better than the other. It is all a matter of finding the way that works best for you.

Please post a photo of your solar generator.

We also don’t plug in when power is available since we mostly boondock. Our power plant is 200 Ah of lithium and a 2,000 watt inverter. We currently have 200 watts of portable solar. The plan is to install 600 watts of solar on our Tradewind. Here is a photo of our power plant.

Dan

[Philip Jones]

Yes, please! I would love to see a photo of the plywood-mounted solar array and setup. Thanks for sharing!

[Shermy1987]

Originally Posted by AndyKeene

This is my first post on this forum, as the title indicates. I typically don't post my experiences simply because of the critics that seem to have to nit-pick every detail to death. In spite of my hesitation I simply had to post my Lithium experiences. You can do the same or better than I did, just do it! I have destroyed more batteries in my lifetime and made more mistakes than I will own up to.

Background: 22 years of living on a 37 foot sailboat, sailing 99,000 nautical miles, owning and using 4 different Class C motorhomes, and using insulated shipping containers as my workshops. I built and used solar systems to power them all. Remember that above noted statement bout destroying batteries.

My wife and I bought a 27 foot 2017 Flying Cloud with the optional solar system on it. 200 watts of Zamp panels and all the associated lightweight components that go with it. I, of course wanted to install more panels and really max out the capabilities for boondocking and simply because I could. I started and found that the Airstream or any small living space (still much bigger than the living space on my boat) was difficult to adapt to additional equipment. I also did not want to increase tongue weight and ding up the Airstream. So, I built a 1000 watt solar system with a 6,000 watt inverter and 8 lithium batteries with an 80 amp MPPT charge controller and put it all in my tow vehicle and call it my solar generator. I use the stock power cord from the Airstream and plug it into an outlet on the truck. The solar panels are mounted on a 14 foot plywood platform bolted to the aluminum ladder rack on the contractor shell.

We can boondock with the best and live quite comfortably with or without AC. When we are in an RV park with 30 amp service we don't even plug in. When 50 amp service is available I plug the truck in, and pipe the power to the Airstream. At the same time the grid power is charging the batteries if needed, which is very rare.
Our Dodge Ram 3500 longbed with crew cab barely notices the Airstream and any additional weight in the bed or contractor shell.

So, I read the reviews the same as you do on YouTube and elsewhere, where 11 year old kids give us their interpretation of life as they know it. I do learn a lot on YouTube and really enjoy a good laugh now and then. I don't take a lot of pictures for the world to see simply because I have in the past on other interests and find that people that don't want to take the time to do their own research and make their own mistakes. Not trying to be hyper-critical, especially on my first post, but I got totally turned off reading about codes and specs from people who don't seem to really do anything other than talk...

And no, I am not going to give the specs and item numbers and details of the stuff this is all made up of, there are many sites that go into great detail for that.

I do mean to ask this question with respect. But what is the purpose of this post? If I understand correctly, the meaty bits are that you own a large solar system bolted onto your truck bed and you don't want to share its design for fear of criticism. And quite obviously, your experience is that a large solar system provides a lot of usable power.