Generator Trial (and error)

[JetstreamAS]

Originally Posted by 10Smiles

How much are the generators derated when running on propane?

Per Champion on the 2500W dual fuel:

https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100899-2500-watt-dual-fuel-inverter/

Gasoline Starting Watts - 2500W
Gasoline Running Watts - 1850W
Propane Starting Watts - 2500W
Propane Running Watts - 1665W
Gasoline Starting Amps at 120V - 20.8A
Gasoline Running Amps at 120V - 15.4A
Propane Starting Amps at 120V - 20.8A
Propane Running Amps at 120V - 13.9A

[Jeff7176]

I have a Champion 2500 and a single 15K AC unit with soft start. When using propane (I never use gasoline) the generator will start and run the AC with no issues. I have a 3000W hybrid inverter that allows me to adjust input amps. It is normally set to 30A, but when running from the generator, I reduce the input to 14A.

I had a Champion 3400, but based on it’s size, I rarely used it. The smaller 2500 is light enough that I can reach in over the side of the truck bed to get it out and set up.

The Champion (both 3400 and 2500) have been nice, quality units in the time I have owned/operated them.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

How do you camp? How much do you use the generator? Where does the generator travel? If in the back of the truck, how high off the ground is that Ford with the FX4 package?

Why all those questions?

For us, the generator is rarely used. It goes in the back of the truck. To make it rational to get at, it's at the very back. The fuel and other odds and ends are with it. Since it normally just stays there, any time anything else needs to come out of the bed, out comes the generator. A hundred pounds of generator coming out and going in every couple days is not a lot of fun .....Two 40 pound generators plus more cables, still not a lot. of fun ....

Go someplace where it's not so hot

Bob

[Mollysdad]

I'm in the "more is better" camp.
I never understood why one gets the smallest generator possible, and then is tasked with constant watt management. "Can I run the TV and the a/c at the same time?"
Then, you get a gas tank that's a quart, meaning frequent fill ups.
All these problems are solvable, but I'd have a Honda 7000 if I had the cash and the room. (I have a EU3000IS and it's heavy but it lives in the truck.)

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

I'm in the "more is better" camp.
I never understood why one gets the smallest generator possible, and then is tasked with constant watt management. "Can I run the TV and the a/c at the same time?"
Then, you get a gas tank that's a quart, meaning frequent fill ups.
All these problems are solvable, but I'd have a Honda 7000 if I had the cash and the room. (I have a EU3000IS and it's heavy but it lives in the truck.)

Hi

I *have* an EU3000IS. It sits out in the garage full time. Getting it into or out of the truck is a "two big folks" job if you have a Ford with the bed 2.7 miles off the ground (or you need a hoist).

It takes up a good deal of floor space in the back of the truck. What goes in front of it? How do you get to all that stuff if you don't pull out the generator?

Final nail in the coffin: it's too tall to fit under a bed cover. You now need to head out and get a cap instead. Been there / done that in the past. Not a big fan of the compromises one brings with it.

So, stop by some time and I'll make you a nice deal on that 3000 you always wanted (free beer included ).

Bob

[gypsydad]

1) it's cleaner burning than gas.
2) it's available in portable bottles or from your AS bottles/quick disconnect.
3) it's safer/cleaner handling vs gas....think spilling gas in back of your TV....
4) You won't notice any difference in powering your AS with propane or gas...(nits here may disagree, but I found propane to work just fine).
5) you can get a light weight Honda 2200 with propane integrated along with a 3 year warranty if you purchase from Genconnex. (see picture)
6)You can get a Yamaha 2200 or Honda 2200 and add a propane conversion kit from Hutch Mountain or other vendors if you prefer...or get a Dual Fuel Champion 2500.. Each of these units are around 40-45lbs-easier to load/unload/move around than a 95+lb larger unit.
7) There are options if you want to add a "soft start". Micro Air of course, and also a "plug/play" version offered by https://softstartup.com/
8) it's really up to you and how you want to roll...

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

I *have* an EU3000IS. It sits out in the garage full time. Getting it into or out of the truck is a "two big folks" job if you have a Ford with the bed 2.7 miles off the ground (or you need a hoist).

In my case I don't have two strong helpers, so I have the Harbor Freight Hydraulic table. In the garage, it lives on that, roll it out, jack it up to the tailgate, and schooch it in.
(The 1000# table goes high enough for me)

It takes up a good deal of floor space in the back of the truck. What goes in front of it? How do you get to all that stuff if you don't pull out the generator?

I also carry a 2.5 gallon gas can (JustRite brand) that fits perfectly in a plastic milk crate. I can slide it around as needed or tether it to a tie down in the bed.
All my assorted gadgets go in Rubbermaid Action Packers. I put a rope pull on each so I can retrieve it with a boathook. (Very handy)

Final nail in the coffin: it's too tall to fit under a bed cover. You now need to head out and get a cap instead.

Nay, nay, My friend. I choose the Lear 700 hard tonneau because it has more than enough clearance. Looks good and is more secure than a flip or rolling cover, and waterproof.


If I was starting over, I'd probably get the Champion 4500, but my Honda will last forever, so...

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by Mollysdad

......


Nay, nay, My friend. I choose the Lear 700 hard tonneau because it has more than enough clearance. Looks good and is more secure than a flip or rolling cover, and waterproof.


If I was starting over, I'd probably get the Champion 4500, but my Honda will last forever, so...

Hi

Sure doesn't look like an 8 foot bed on the truck in that picture ..... . How can you live with the lack of an additional 3' of height the Ford would give you ( the bed on a modern Ford is way up there ....)

I tried the flip up hard covers on one truck. Not a big fan. To each his own.

Bob

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by uncle_bob

Sure doesn't look like an 8 foot bed on the truck in that picture ..... . Bob

It's not. I didn't say it was. It's the 6.5' bed. It has the small back seat also, not the crew cab. I wanted to be able to park in a normal space, have reasonable payload, and still make a U-turn on a six lane highway.

But, I never tell anyone that my way is the best way or the only way. If you choose to tow with a F-650 have at it.
Part of the choice is that some forum members have unlimited income and buy the biggest truck they can every year and keep the Bentley for grocery runs.
Then there's me, who uses the truck for a daily driver.

[99TJSE]

Originally Posted by 10Smiles

How much are the generators derated when running on propane?

About 10% give or take. Generators running on propane don't like altitude much. Due diligence is required for a proper selection. Ask all the questions, then pays your money and takes your chances.

I bought a pair of Champions and the parallel kit to match for my Caravel 19, didn't feel the need to upgrade the generators with the new Globetrotter 27. I usually only take on with me unless I'm going into the high country or I'm going to need the A/C. No soft start and only one A/C. Always run on propane.

Made a bonding plug so the EMS doesn't complain.

It works for us

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by 99TJSE

About 10% give or take. Generators running on propane don't like altitude much. Due diligence is required for a proper selection. Ask all the questions, then pays your money and takes your chances.

I bought a pair of Champions and the parallel kit to match for my Caravel 19, didn't feel the need to upgrade the generators with the new Globetrotter 27. I usually only take on with me unless I'm going into the high country or I'm going to need the A/C. No soft start and only one A/C. Always run on propane.

Made a bonding plug so the EMS doesn't complain.

It works for us

Hi

The main issue with derating is that it actually applies to the engine. To some degree, all these folks put a bigger engine on the generator than it really needs. That way as the engine wears out, you still get full output power. It also helps when you put a less than great batch of gas in the tank.

Until you get to the point that the generator actually *is* limited by the engine, you will see no difference. With one brand / model that might be 4,000 feet. With another brand / model it might be 8,000 feet. I'd bet it varies some from example to example as well. Since it's an internal combustion engine, temperature also gets into the mix ....

Bob

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by 99TJSE

About 10% give or take. Generators running on propane don't like altitude much. Due diligence is required for a proper selection. Ask all the questions, then pays your money and takes your chances.

I bought a pair of Champions and the parallel kit to match for my Caravel 19, didn't feel the need to upgrade the generators with the new Globetrotter 27. I usually only take on with me unless I'm going into the high country or I'm going to need the A/C. No soft start and only one A/C. Always run on propane.

Made a bonding plug so the EMS doesn't complain.

It works for us

Altitude can be an issue propane or gas. Derating is more like 7-8% difference with propane overall vs gas is what I read. I have not had any degradation using propane that I notice. I ran propane at 4000' to 6000' altitude this past summer without any issues with this Honda 2200 so far. With my previous Champion 3400, I did experience a bit of struggle with the load at 4000' on propane while in Hungry Horse couple years back. I do have a high altitude needle for the Honda which I have not had to use yet. Not a big deal with propane; just no mess to fool with using gas which was my primary goal.

[Jerrylax]

We put soft starts on both ACs and they start very easy now. Keep in mind if you use propane fuel the generator output will decrease and the same in higher elevations. We have two Honda 2200s, quiet and dependable.