Do I need a 50 Amp Generator?

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Thank you, Jay. I am now leaning towards 2 champion dual fuels at 3400 watts a piece in parallel. That would be enough to run both ACs and a TV and a Laptop right? Do you think i would need an easy start on my AC with that setup?

With this setup, you can do everything you mentioned and won't need to install Easy Starts to do it. But that is a lot of weight/volume of generators to lug around.

[ROBERT CROSS]

All pictures of our generator are very quiet, especially when running in the tent
But the solar panels are even quieter.

Bob
🇺🇸

[mojo]

Honda makes a 7000W inverter genny that would allow you run everything. Can be converted to propane and use a single 50A cord. But you may need to leave in your truck full time as it is not light.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Boon docking in the boon docks are probably best place for these very loud large watt producing generators. State parks in my area will prohibit them if they are too loud and diminish camping experience. Your neighbors will not be happy. Small Quiet generators are a little more tolerable. Solar Panels are best. And let the defenders of noise begin and it will, stay tuned.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Oh God, you never should have told me all of this because now I have about 100 questions for you lol. But I will start with 2:



I am now thinking of doing 2 of the 3400 champions in parallel what are your thoughts on that? Think it will run 2 ACs, a TV, and a laptop?



According to the owners manual the 50 amps dont have a generator connector on the A frame.. can you tell me more details about your quick connect modifications please?

Two 3400 Champion inverter generators would easily run that load.

I added a 3/8 inch quick connect snd a shut-off valve to the A-frame area to connect a 1/2 inch propane hose to run my single generator. I modified the generator OEM propane regulator to accept that hose assembly.







There are more photos and detailed discussion in the “Which generator” thread under my name.

I think adding a tee fitting and using two hoses to the generators would work. You might have to replace the OEM airstream regulator with one capable of more flow to power two generators at one time. The standard 1/4 inch quick connect is probably not enough propane flow capacity.

I did add a front generator 30 amp electrical connector on the front of my airstream snd a manual transfer switch.

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

All pictures of our generator are very quiet, especially when running in the tent
But the solar panels are even quieter.

Bob
🇺🇸

Hahaha. I will have solar too if it counts for anything! And at least I know enough to not get a construction open frame one! Lol

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by jaybauman

With this setup, you can do everything you mentioned and won't need to install Easy Starts to do it. But that is a lot of weight/volume of generators to lug around.

Thank you so much for your response, Jay.

I was hoping to figure out a way to cage them in on the A frame. We are going full-time and both work full-time so I am trying to make our set up as convenient and functional as possible. I cant find the dimensions of the frame between the propane cover and rig yet but we have all the tools and knowledge to weld if it will work... Do you have any reservations about that mounting plan that i may not be thinking of (other than size unless you know the dimensions for me)?

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by Silvr_Bullet

Boon docking in the boon docks are probably best place for these very loud large watt producing generators. State parks in my area will prohibit them if they are too loud and diminish camping experience. Your neighbors will not be happy. Small Quiet generators are a little more tolerable. Solar Panels are best. And let the defenders of noise begin and it will, stay tuned.

Thanks for your reply. The generator i posted is made for RVs and should run very quietly. I think it is the gen they put into the big class As. However, for other reasons, I am now thinking of switching to 2 smaller generators (probably about 3400 a piece) either Yamaha, Honda or Champion. Hopefully this will come in handy if I dont need AC and therefore need to only run on one. For what it is worth I will have solar too, but we work full-time and are going fulltime so i need the back up generator option.

Given all of that information, are you still concerned about the noise level? If so any generator muffling tactics you can suggest?

Thanks.

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by mojo

Honda makes a 7000W inverter genny that would allow you run everything. Can be converted to propane and use a single 50A cord. But you may need to leave in your truck full time as it is not light.

Thanks for the tip, mojo! I am now leaning towards 2 gens running in parallel with that being one of the reasons. I am open to all tips and suggestions so please keep them coming!

[lsbrodsky]

I am just going to ramble a bit here. I have trouble thinking about what kind of camping you are going to do that requires two 3400 generators. If you are full-timing you will likely spend more time in campgrounds, if you are dry camping one generator will meet most of your needs all of the time. Trying to mount two of those guys on the A-frame sounds like a herculean effort. You are also going to need to do some serious electrical work because I do not know of generators designed to do parallel operation into an RV 50 amp connector. That means you are not going to be able to power both sides of your 50 amp service so paralleling them is a waste of time without the electrical modifications. Then you have fuel issues for two generators to deal with. Gas or propane and where are you going to store the fuel for two generators.
I suggest you get one 3400, locate it in the bed of your truck and camp for a while and see how much you use it and whether you ever need any more generator watts.
Larry

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by rmkrum

Two 3400 Champion inverter generators would easily run that load.

I added a 3/8 inch quick connect snd a shut-off valve to the A-frame area to connect a 1/2 inch propane hose to run my single generator. I modified the generator OEM propane regulator to accept that hose assembly.

Attachment 381051

Attachment 381052

Attachment 381053

There are more photos and detailed discussion in the “Which generator” thread under my name.

I think adding a tee fitting and using two hoses to the generators would work. You might have to replace the OEM airstream regulator with one capable of more flow to power two generators at one time. The standard 1/4 inch quick connect is probably not enough propane flow capacity.

I did add a front generator 30 amp electrical connector on the front of my airstream snd a manual transfer switch.

Attachment 381055

Thank you so much for this in-depth and detailed answer, Rmkrum! I need time to do more research on the points you mentioned so that I can ask knowledgeable questions and not waste your time. So please bear with me for the day and don't abandon the thread!

On the off chance, how much would you charge to just figure out what I need and install it for me? Hahaha... According to my owners manual the Airstream is towable so i can bring it to you ��

[Al and Missy]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

I am looking at doing 2 Champion Power Equipment 3400-Watt Dual Fuel Portable Inverter Generators with Electric Start running in parallel. Do you think that would result in me exceeding 50A total neutral current?

As I said, 6000 watts would be the limit, so if you actually drew 6800 watts, yes, the neutral current would be exceeded.

[Piggy Bank]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

We live in Florida so i unfortunately reasonably foresee needing to run both ACs.

Point taken.

What I was really driving at is not if you will need to run both ACs camping in Florida or the South. You will.

But do you truly think you will be camping in this region and not be in a campground with hookups.

Some people don't consider this. If you won't be camping off grid then you won't need a generator at all.

[jaybauman]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Thank you so much for your response, Jay.

I was hoping to figure out a way to cage them in on the A frame. We are going full-time and both work full-time so I am trying to make our set up as convenient and functional as possible. I cant find the dimensions of the frame between the propane cover and rig yet but we have all the tools and knowledge to weld if it will work... Do you have any reservations about that mounting plan that i may not be thinking of (other than size unless you know the dimensions for me)?

There is at least one consequence of your plan that you do not seem to have considered. A champion 3400 dual fuel inverter weighs just under 100lbs. By the time you add a robust mount and 2 generators, you could be adding 250-350lbs (or more) to the tongue of your trailer. Even if you have enough available payload band witch on your tow vehicle to absorb this, you would be subjecting the trailer A frame to more stresses than in a typical configuration. I'm not saying that this is not possible; however, I am saying you'll really need to pay attention to the stresses and loads and moments of inertia and all the other things that those mechanical engineering folks know about. I'm an electrochemical engineer, so I'll have to defer to my esteemed colleagues on these fora for that kind of opinions.

Good luck!

[McStreamy_]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Thank you for your help McStreamy!
We live in Florida and my family is in New Orleans so I can only assume that we will be in oppressively hot and humid conditions more than I would like.

Are your 2200s running 1 AC or 2?

We run just one AC with our two generators. You can get a "soft start" installed on your AC unit which will lessen the power requirements at start up. We only have one AC so I'll leave it to others to detail how that would work with a dual AC trailer. We haven't felt a need to go the soft start route, but it's been written about extensively here on the forum. Search for MicroAir Easy Start and you'll be in business.

One other thing to be on the lookout for since you mentioned the Champion 3400W is you can sometimes find them online on Costco's website. Their return policy is legendary and will cover you if you have an issue down the road. Not currently available but might be something to watch for.

[rmkrum]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Thank you so much for this in-depth and detailed answer, Rmkrum! I need time to do more research on the points you mentioned so that I can ask knowledgeable questions and not waste your time. So please bear with me for the day and don't abandon the thread!

On the off chance, how much would you charge to just figure out what I need and install it for me? Hahaha... According to my owners manual the Airstream is towable so i can bring it to you ��

I’ll hang around the thread, but note that the local head of the ‘Department of Overkill Engineering’ is fully engaged in multiple current projects driven by SWMBO and I don’t have any bandwidth to spare...it’s part of the joy and challenges of being married to an incredibly talented and creative woman! She comes up with ideas faster than I can execute on them.

Like the complete rebuild of the MBR closet and storage, including a 3/4 oak strip floor.



Note that there were only 4-5 extra strips of wood at the end of the project, and every one of them on the floor were personally selected and arranged in their spot by her. Very little scrap trimmings left.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by mojo

Honda makes a 7000W inverter genny that would allow you run everything. Can be converted to propane and use a single 50A cord. But you may need to leave in your truck full time as it is not light.

The Honda 7000 is indeed a fine top of the line unit. However, it tosses in a couple challenges. One, it weighs a lot, IIRC around 260 lbs without gas (5.1 gal) . Then it's too tall to fit under any tonneau I'm aware of, so you'll be covering it in a truck cap. Assuming it's in the front of the bed, refueling is more difficult.
There is no perfect solution.

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

50A service assumes that the two 120 volt legs are out of phase.

I always hate when technical threads go off into the weeds, but now I'm guilty. Phase only matters if you have 240v. appliances, which we don't. You will not have 50 amps on each leg, but you will have 50 amps from neutral to hot available on both legs. Total.
Basically, you "Y" one 50 amp output to two inputs. How you divvy up the power is determined by your wiring. Chances are your front AC is on one leg and the rear AC is on the other leg. You can run both as long as the total doesn't exceed 50 amps.

[rmkrum]

No, the issue is the size of the neutral lead. The neutral is only good for 50 amps or so. If both hot leads are in phase, and fully loaded the neutral current would be 100 amps, and the neutral wire would for sure overheat.

In a three wire system, the hot leads are 180 degrees out of phase to minimize neutral currents. That’s also how you get 240 volts from hot to hot.

In a trailer, the loads are only 120 volt, but are evenly distributed between the two hot leads. That helps to minimize neutral current.

[Silvr_Bullet]

Originally Posted by Jess_Pizz

Thanks for your reply. The generator i posted is made for RVs and should run very quietly. I think it is the gen they put into the big class As. However, for other reasons, I am now thinking of switching to 2 smaller generators (probably about 3400 a piece) either Yamaha, Honda or Champion. Hopefully this will come in handy if I dont need AC and therefore need to only run on one. For what it is worth I will have solar too, but we work full-time and are going fulltime so i need the back up generator option.

Given all of that information, are you still concerned about the noise level? If so any generator muffling tactics you can suggest?

Thanks.

I can only say I support the State Parks position on noise pollution, I go camping to connect with nature and enjoy peace and quite. I value your right as far as it extends until it becomes noxious. If you value your fellow campers you’ll try to get along with being the least obtrusive you can be. Does this answer your question.

[Jess_Pizz]

Originally Posted by Al and Missy

As I said, 6000 watts would be the limit, so if you actually drew 6800 watts, yes, the neutral current would be exceeded.

Sorry, I am having a difficult time grasping all of this knowledge at once. I am assuming that exceeding the neutral current is not okay so i need to make sure i don't have a generator more powerful than 6000. Is that correct?