|
|
10-12-2021, 09:35 AM
|
#1
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Another Solar Install with Lithium
Hi folks,
I just wanted to share my new solar install on my 2013 Flying Cloud Bunk. I researched using flexible panels and in the end decided to go with 2kW (8x210W panels and 2x160W panels) of monocrystalline glass panels due to efficiency and roof insulation. I used 4x20' rails of aluminum strut channel mounted along the roof and then mounted the panels to that using angle aluminum. I had to raise 3 of the panels an extra 1.6" off the rails to clear the refrigerator vent and other random vents. Overall I think a pretty good install. I will update this post with some details that can help others in the future. Here is the iCloud photo album. I'll add some more photos as I go.
The lithium battery setup was 4x12V BattleBorn batteries in series to make a 48VDC battery bank.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-12-2021, 10:24 AM
|
#2
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
|
Hi
With a 48V battery, what did you do about the break away setup?
Bob
|
|
|
10-12-2021, 12:06 PM
|
#3
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hi Bob,
I have a 12VDC 30 amp transformer so a 48VDC bud for energy transfer. And a 12VDC bus for all the appliances.
I’ll get a picture soon to put up.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-13-2021, 07:54 AM
|
#4
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG
Hi Bob,
I have a 12VDC 30 amp transformer so a 48VDC bud for energy transfer. And a 12VDC bus for all the appliances.
I’ll get a picture soon to put up.
|
Hi
The DC/DC converter to get to 12V is one way to do it. I'm not sure if it is legit in all 50 states. A small 12V battery stashed somewhere ( enough AH to close the brakes for 15 minutes) is indeed legit. You see a lot of small trailers running this way.
Why might there be issues? Who knows, it's way more complex than a "normal" setup. You might get in a tangle over switches / fuses / breakers or some other minor item.
Bob
|
|
|
10-13-2021, 06:11 PM
|
#5
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hmm, I’m not sure I’m understanding the issue.
Here is my thinking on it: The battery bank is 4.8 kWH which should be sufficient to provide 12VDC at 400 amps for 1 hour or 100 amps for 4 hours minus any efficiency loss which going from high voltage to lower voltage isn’t as big of a problem. Additionally the transformer will provide a much more stable voltage than a 12VDC lead acid battery. 48VDC is a setup I have seen with larger full off grid RV setups that are trying to run a residential fridge and multiple air conditioners. 48VDC is very common in the marine industry and transformers are used to run 24VDC and 12VDC bilge pumps so transformers commonly take care of emergency functions. For fuses they deal in amperage and almost all are rated for 48VDC setups so as long as they are sized for the source, wire type and gauge, and consumer then they should be fine.
I do agree that is is a more complex setup. But it isn’t that much more complex. Just voltage step downs. Higher voltage for transfer and large loads and lower voltage or 120 VAC for appliances. The big benefit to going with a 48VDC is the inverter-charger can support huge loads of 10kW surge and 5kW continuous for the same price as a 5kW surge and 3kW 12VDC inverter-charger.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-13-2021, 06:39 PM
|
#6
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Breakaway Switch
I just tested the breakaway switch to see what the power draw is and my DC loads went from 12W to 200W so about 16 amps at 12VDC which is a lot more that I expected.
|
|
|
10-14-2021, 05:04 AM
|
#7
|
3 Rivet Member
2014 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Coldwater
, Ontario
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 166
|
Vinnie, can you share what device in particular you installed for your DCDC converter?
|
|
|
10-14-2021, 07:46 AM
|
#8
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG
I just tested the breakaway switch to see what the power draw is and my DC loads went from 12W to 200W so about 16 amps at 12VDC which is a lot more that I expected.
|
Hi
The risk is that there is some rule somewhere about "direct to the battery". I'm not a lawyer so this is just a guess. I do know that some safety related gear *is* spec'd that way in this or that rule / law / regulation / recommendation.
My understanding is that the breakaway has to run for 15 minutes on whatever power source it's hooked to. Your 16A would mean a 4 amp hour battery (if it was happy with a 4C discharge rate ... which is highly unlikely. Even a 16AH SLA isn't going to be very large.
Another "interesting" situation:
If the breakaway switch triggers while the 7 pin is still plugged in, you are feeding the truck with whatever power the break away uses. Again a reason for a small "throw away" power source. The most likely case would be while hooking up / unhooking the trailer.
Bob
|
|
|
10-14-2021, 09:05 PM
|
#9
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hi bbandeddie, I’m using a Victron 48/12 30 amp converter: Victron Energy Orion-Tr IP43 48/12-Volt 30 amp 360-Watt DC-DC Converter, Isolated https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DQ5H3T2...ing=UTF8&psc=1
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-14-2021, 09:07 PM
|
#10
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hmm, direct to battery is a good point. I’m gonna search around the internet to see if I can find the rules a bit. To be honest the last thing I thought about was the breakaway switch.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-15-2021, 08:02 AM
|
#11
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG
Hmm, direct to battery is a good point. I’m gonna search around the internet to see if I can find the rules a bit. To be honest the last thing I thought about was the breakaway switch.
|
Hi
I did a quick look and found roughly a billion drawings showing how to wire a switch to a battery. I found nothing rational about any rules. They all *assumed* you just had a battery ....
Bob
|
|
|
10-16-2021, 07:55 AM
|
#12
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hmm, interesting. I’ll likely leave it wired as is then unless an inspection report says it need to be changed.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-16-2021, 09:56 AM
|
#13
|
Half a Rivet Short
2017 30' Classic
2022 Interstate 24X
Carlisle
, Pennsylvania
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 15,674
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnieG
Hmm, interesting. I’ll likely leave it wired as is then unless an inspection report says it need to be changed.
|
Hi
I doubt an inspection would ever catch it. The risk is mainly that you have a breakaway, there is damage, and the legal eagles swoop in after the fact.
Bob
|
|
|
10-17-2021, 08:22 PM
|
#14
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Yeah, a breakaway would really suck.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
10-21-2021, 05:21 AM
|
#15
|
4 Rivet Member
1956 22' Safari
1962 28' Ambassador
Williston
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 493
|
Any chance we can get you to post a schematic of your system? I am designing mine, although only 1.2kw and have been going back and forth regarding 12v and 24v storage. Didn't even consider 48v. Would love to see the models numbers of all your components.
Really nice build by the way - Mark
|
|
|
10-25-2021, 02:36 PM
|
#16
|
1 Rivet Member
Houston
, Texas
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 16
|
Hi VinnieG, thanks for posting your build. I was planning for my electrical system to be pretty similar at 48v but rather than battleborn batteries I was going to go with some 280ah chinese LiFePO4 batteries.
I cannot tell from your photos but is the DC/DC converter tied upstream of the 12V portion of the electrical panel? Do you also have a separate DC/DC converter for charging your BB batteries with alternator charging or did you just isolate the alternator from the trailer electrical?
|
|
|
11-02-2021, 04:56 AM
|
#17
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hi Mark,
Sorry for the late reply. I’m actually out camping right now. I’ll draw up a schematic and post it here.
Thanks!
Vince
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
11-02-2021, 05:02 AM
|
#18
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
I have the DC/DC converter upstream of the electrical panel. Basically the electrical panel/trailer DC system doesn’t really touch the 48VDC portion. It’s all 12VDC. My thinking in this is that I use the 48VDC for storage and inverting and 12VDC for all the DC components.
Yeah, the trailer is completely is completely isolated from the truck. I basically rely on the 2KW of solar and a little Honda generator for off grid power.
As for batteries it’s all good. The sooner you transfer to lithium the better. I’m off grid camping right now and powering my friends RV as well because his SLABs are giving him trouble.
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
11-02-2021, 05:15 AM
|
#19
|
Site Team
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha
, Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 5,502
|
Good looking installation.
How much weight did this add overall to the trailer? How much was on the roof?
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser (Sold)
|
|
|
11-02-2021, 05:20 AM
|
#20
|
1 Rivet Member
2013 30' Flying Cloud
San Antonio
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 19
|
Hi Mark,
Bottom line, after using the system on 2 off grid trips I would build it exactly the same. It’s working fantastic and I’be been also powering a friend’s RV as well.
I decided on 48VDC mainly as a learning experience and also because the inverter/chargers are a lot cheaper than 12VDC or even 24VDC for a given power output. I can also get away with smaller wire…but this isn’t too much of a concern yet as I mainly just fed the existing wiring. I suppose if I ever run additional wire to the front of the trailer to add another 12VDC bus this will be good…but that isn’t likely.
The problem with going with 48VDC or 24VDC is that the complexity will be about the same. You’re gonna need a transformer to take it to 12VDC to feed your DC consumers.
The additional problem with going with 48VDC is that it takes a lot of batteries. I bought 4 BattleBorn batteries and if I lose one of those I lose my entire bank. So to make it more robust I’ll need to buy 4 more and maybe mount it under the rear bed.
I have heard that when feeding a battery bank with solar the solar needs to provide a higher voltage than the battery bank so that the MPPT controllers can feed it properly. So for the 20VDC panels I have I would need a minimum of 3 in series. Luckily I have 4 in series for the 2 separate solar banks so I haven’t seen that issue yet.
On the solar front I have been pretty unlucky. Since I installed them we’ve only had a 5 really sunny days and each time the trailer was parked in a shaded spot. I did get a max output of 600W yesterday while driving during a partly cloudy day. I’m really looking forward to testing them during a full sun day..
__________________
2013 30' Flying Cloud Bunkhouse, 16" Sendel Wheels, Michelin 235 75R16, 2kW Monocrystalline solar panels, 4.8kW BattleBorn lithium 48V bank
2007 Dodge Ram 2500, 4wd, 6 spd manual, long bed, exhaust brake, air bags
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|