a solar question

[Airstream25]

Originally Posted by JohnnieWinon

i have a 19' CCD with the solar option.
No matter how conservative we are with power the 53 watt panel can't quite keep up with usage, esp in the winter months. After 'bout 4 days we are down to 40% power, even with mostly full sun.

i am thinking about adding an additional panel. What i am thinking is a panel on the ground that i plug into the airstream solar system.

Where to purchase.

I put a 120 watt Kyocera panel on the roof and it does keep up with my usage for extended boondocking.

I had briefly considered a ground panel because I could tilt it as required to directly face the sun. However, the panels are expensive, heavy and fragile. I was concerned that the handling would eventually cause damage. Also, our NM spring winds would require a strong ground mount to hold it securely.

Solar panels are available from http://store.solar-electric.com/kc-120.html
amoung others.

[ArtStream]

I think that all A/S owners can benefit from switching the standard converter to a more efficient model which is intended to focus on the batteries (I switched to the Intellipower, but there are others)

That said, I do a lot of boondocking and I find that if I run my Honda i2000 4 hours ever other day I can keep my 2/12V lead acid batteries above 80%. Also, I plan any high power and or 110v activities during the 4 hour juice time, ie: Microwave cooking/electric barbeque, 48"plasma TV with Bose 9 speaker surround sound system, and Dysan upright vacuum cleaner.

Ooo, did I catch a whiff of ozone, sniff, sniff?



Michael

[Zugbug]

Isn't this thread abpout using a solar panel? I know a lot of folks use generators but I would like to try and get by without one. I just purchased an 85 watt panel that I will use free standing. I hope to extend my boondocking usage to 5 or 6 days with limited power usage. Meaning no heater only some lights in the evenings. Has anyone got a link to power consumption and recharge capacity?

Zugbug

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by artlink

I plan any high power and or 110v activities during the 4 hour juice time, ie: Microwave cooking/electric barbeque, 48"plasma TV with Bose 9 speaker surround sound system, and Dysan upright vacuum cleaner.
Ooo, did I catch a whiff of ozone, sniff, sniff?
Michael

Wow, How do you fit that 48" rascal in the rig? Theater seating? Mine came with a 13" B&W which I gave away. Imagine running that thing off solar panels, you would need reflectors and multiple big panels. Sounds wild!

R

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by Zugbug

Isn't this thread abpout using a solar panel? I know a lot of folks use generators but I would like to try and get by without one. I just purchased an 85 watt panel that I will use free standing. I hope to extend my boondocking usage to 5 or 6 days with limited power usage. Meaning no heater only some lights in the evenings. Has anyone got a link to power consumption and recharge capacity?

Zugbug

hi zugbug

if you are expecting threads to stick with only one topic......good luck!!!

looks like the person starting the thread asked several questions about gen sets....after the initial solar question....

as for a link to power consumption and recharging issues......go to advanced search and enter solar + power ratings....or some such key words....many threads will appear....

roadkingmoe has posted many of the numbers related to how much power is drawn and how much is replaced and at what rate...so if you put his name in the search it will narrow the returns....

several of the solar vendors also provide budget/supply/inventory forms so one can calculate power needs and solar returns...

i think solar can extend boondocking to 5-6 days....if you really only plan limited 12v lights? what about the contol boards for the fridge, water heater, water pump and so on....do a full inventory of 12 volt requirements....it adds up.
happy searching...

2air'

[Airstream25]

My preference is solar due to no operating cost or noise or fumes.
We economize on power consumption by switching out half of the incandescant bulbs with low power LEDs. Some are base compatible so it is just a matter of unscrewing one and screwing in the other.
Candles during dinner in the evening are so nice that we would use them even if we were not trying to economize on power consumption.
Here is a web site for LEDs.
http://home.tiac.net/~jtdjtd/aspix/LED/LED.html

[26.982 amu]

I installed a 15W solar panel on my AS just to keep the deep cycle marine battery topped up while it sits in the storage yard. The AS gets weekend visits from me to bring the interior up to habitability. I also have a separate small starting battery (it came from my son's wrecked Nissan sports car) that I keep topped up with a little 5W Volkswagen window charging unit. I use this battery with an inverter to run power drills and so forth.

Almost as an experiment, I've started replacing selected 12V lamps with LED arrays that I bought from Super LED's. The square 36-LED red arrays that have a standard bayonet plug work just great in groups of 2 to replace the overhead first-setting lights and provide plenty of light to get around in the trailer at night. I've also replaced the recessed reading lamps over the gaucho with white-light arrays, the over-door step light with an amber LED array, and the always-on control panel indicator lights with single LED's from Radio Shack. When all of them are on at the same time, the drop in battery voltage is only about half a volt! After many hours of night use, the solar panel is able to bring the big battery up to capacity after only a few hours of sun, too.

I think you could boondock for a long time with this type of setup!

[CanoeStream]

Many good points have been made. This post picks up some crumbs... None of the following assume the extra demand of operating air conditioning -- whether while boondocking or (sadly) in the tow vehicle while towing.

Pick's LP conversion is at Propane Powered EU2000i. I've got to strap down a variety of things in my pickup box to prevent them flying on impact or sudden maneuver. I haven't done the conversion to my Honda yet but not having the volatile gasoline makes sense to me.

I do not agree with the statement that solar has no operating cost. It requires the highest investment of any option and then only meets part of your power requirements. Read RoadKingMoe as referred to before (best threads would take more research time than I have right now -- but Maurice is knowledgeable & insightful!). There also are too many obstructions on an Airstream roof to install more than a modest area of panel. If we take this to the extreme of standing some solar panel on the ground in the campsite (staked down against any wind of course ... and gosh, maybe even a satellite dish!!), what will you feel compelled to do with the thou$and$ standing out there if you want to go fishing or to a restaurant in town? Putting the genset back in the truck is likely; I haven't seen a personal need for a larger genset (Yamaha or 2 EU2000i's) for A/C as those members in the South might require.

If you already have the factory solar (I chose not to do that. I am not in New Mexico like the thread starter.), it seems a genset and solar strike a happy medium of evening peaking power from the genset and some maintenance charging from the solar. Interesting statement above that the factory solar won't take you up to 100%...

And recall that physics just won't allow use of batteries and an inverter to run a true power electric accessory like a microwave (or toaster or iron...). We're talking boondocking, remember?

Do not forget that most tow vehicle alternators are closely tuned to the tow vehicle needs and have so little extra capacity that it may take 200-300 miles of towing before the tow vehicle can significantly charge your coach batteries. If you run tow vehicle accessories like A/C or headlights, figure on greater distances between recharges.

IMHO we all need to understand how much time we spend at sites with or without plugin capability. Your onboard convertor will prepare you before you leave home and assist greatly if plugged in every few nights while on the road.

[Bumperstickr]

A few corrections to the prior post:

1. Solar panels fit very well on most Airstream roofs over 22 ft and I've met Airstreamers who live full-time with solar as their primary power source when boondocking

2. With panels on the roof there's no need to put the panels away when you leave, unlike a genset

3. I've read RoadKing Moe's posts on solar. I don't run all the stuff he lists. His argument seems to be basically "if you use a ton of power every day only a generator will do" What if you don't use a ton of power?

4. Your generator won't charge your battery fully either. At least not in less than 8-10 hours. Doesn't matter how big of a generator you have. You just can't tell without a sophisticated amp hour meter. Voltage doesn't tell you the true story.

5. "physics won't allow" people to use microwaves with an inverter and battery bank? Better tell a few people I know who do that all the time. They are likely to get put in jail for violating laws of physics!

[BeBop]

I discovered this link a while back. It might have some relevancy regarding the portable solar panel discussion.

http://www.fiberglassrv.com/solar.html

[fastrob]

Originally Posted by Pinky

5. "physics won't allow" people to use microwaves with an inverter and battery bank? Better tell a few people I know who do that all the time. They are likely to get put in jail for violating laws of physics!

Pinky,

Is the 12v microwaver in a trailer or a home, off the grid?

Does anyone else do this in an Airstream?

R

[RoadKingMoe]

To answer the original poster's question, a solar panel mounted horizontally on an RV roof, and not shaded by the air-conditioner, etc., puts out in daily amp-hours about 1/4 of its wattage rating around the summer solstice, and about 2/3 of that around the spring and fall equinoxes. This is a rule of thumb that has developed over the years and verified by many RVer's who measure battery input/output with an amp-hour meter. Charging is only about 90% efficient, so multiply your daily panel output by 0.9 to find your "usable" amp-hours.

Before you decide how much of that you can use, you have to subtract that used by your RV, for the LP detector, the circuit boards in the appliances like the refrigerator and water heater, and the radio remembering its station settings. One way to find this is to turn everything off in the trailer, remove the negative lead from both batteries, then using a multimeter than can measure DC current between one of the negative leads and the negative post on its battery. Multiply that times 24 hours to get daily amp-hours.

Many RV appliances today have electric solenoids that control the propane flow. While the multimeter is still connected, turn on the refrigerator on gas and the water heater, one at a time, and record any increase in current. This you will multiply by 24 hours and again mulitply by the duty-cycle, the percent of time the solenoid is "on." That's hard to estimate and one of the best reasons for using an amp-hour meter.

You can also turn one light or other appliance on, and note its current draw over the base amount. Just don't exceed the rating of your meter. The one appliance that will probably draw the most power would be your furnance, and on larger RVs its fan can exceed the rating of a 10A meter. So can smaller furnaces during fan start-up. One worth checking is the Fantastic Vent fan since using solar means you park in the sun.

You may be surprised, especially with a larger RV, just how much electric power you use.

[Pick]

A few guys here at work have microwaves in their vans. One fellow I know only has a 750 watt inverter.

[SilverGate]

Well, I’m getting closer to ordering a 23’ Safari with L-Lounge from JC…
With 2 Fantastic Fans… and I’m considering Solar Panel(s)…
Does anyone know if JC can put 2 Solar Panels up there on the 23’ model
And if the AGM battery(s) are typically placed in the battery box outside…
Or if the factory places them inside (under lounge) taking up more space?

Thanks,
Bill

[TIMEMACHINE]

Pretty sure the batteries stay in the box outside on the A- frame just behind the LPG tanks.

[Goin camping]

While winter boondocking I use a Honda 1000 and a battery charger hooked to the batteries. Very quiet and in a couple of hours I'm all charged up and ready to run the heater all night.