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Old 05-30-2024, 11:32 PM   #1
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2024 Ford F250 w/2kw Power Pro onboard

My 2024 King Ranch came with Ford's 2KW on board generator. So today I tried it out. Used a 50' Southwire 02688 10/3 50-Foot Vinyl Outdoor Extension cord with Lighted End , Yellow , 50 ft - 26888802 and a 50 Amp female to 15 Amp male RV Power Adapter Cord 12" both from Amazon. Works like a charm. Got everything connected and monitored the in dash gauge. Just the basic load (refer, converter etc.) was o/a 610 watts. Both of my HVAC units have soft starts installed. So I turned them on one at a time. First just the fan low then high and finally the compressors. Total load was o/a 1260 watts. Plenty to spare as things heat up.
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Old 05-30-2024, 11:36 PM   #2
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My 2024 King Ranch came with Ford's 2KW on board generator. So today I tried it out. Used a 50' Southwire 02688 10/3 50-Foot Vinyl Outdoor Extension cord with Lighted End , Yellow , 50 ft - 26888802 and a 50 Amp female to 15 Amp male RV Power Adapter Cord 12" both from Amazon. Works like a charm. Got everything connected and monitored the in dash gauge. Just the basic load (refer, converter etc.) was o/a 610 watts. Both of my HVAC units have soft starts installed. So I turned them on one at a time. First just the fan low then high and finally the compressors. Total load was o/a 1260 watts. Plenty to spare as things heat up.
Jealous, my Multiplus in my Trade Wind throws a ground fault in our truck. Our first converter in our old trailer did the same, but we could switch the converter off and run the A/C without charging the batteries. But when we replaced the converter it worked again. I wish I could get the Multiplus to work. I'm now thinking of spending over $1000 to get an inverter setup from cargenerator.com just so I can charger our trailer from our truck, despite the second alternator, AGM batteries, and 2kW inverter that are providing that ProPower. It's frustrating. I've also had issues with some portable power stations, and the generator pass through at my house to be able to bring power in and recharge our home battery backups or run our furnace and fridges on the transfer switch.
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Old 05-31-2024, 08:32 AM   #3
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Jealous, my Multiplus in my Trade Wind throws a ground fault in our truck. Our first converter in our old trailer did the same, but we could switch the converter off and run the A/C without charging the batteries. But when we replaced the converter it worked again. I wish I could get the Multiplus to work. I'm now thinking of spending over $1000 to get an inverter setup from cargenerator.com just so I can charger our trailer from our truck, despite the second alternator, AGM batteries, and 2kW inverter that are providing that ProPower. It's frustrating. I've also had issues with some portable power stations, and the generator pass through at my house to be able to bring power in and recharge our home battery backups or run our furnace and fridges on the transfer switch.
Your Multiplus has a setting that disables neutral to ground bond. Use that to prevent your trucks' generator from tripping. I am in the puget sound area. Happy to walk you through the process.
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Old 05-31-2024, 12:20 PM   #4
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Your Multiplus has a setting that disables neutral to ground bond. Use that to prevent your trucks' generator from tripping. I am in the puget sound area. Happy to walk you through the process.
Oh good to know!
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Old 06-03-2024, 08:03 AM   #5
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Your Multiplus has a setting that disables neutral to ground bond. Use that to prevent your trucks' generator from tripping. I am in the puget sound area. Happy to walk you through the process.
I've got a Victron VE Bus to USB cable arriving today and plan to tackle this project. I did not see anything on the screen in my Trade Wind that allows disabling this, so assuming I will need to dive into this on my computer. Any tips on where to find this would definitely be appreciated!
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Old 06-04-2024, 09:21 AM   #6
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I've got a Victron VE Bus to USB cable arriving today and plan to tackle this project. I did not see anything on the screen in my Trade Wind that allows disabling this, so assuming I will need to dive into this on my computer. Any tips on where to find this would definitely be appreciated!
Connect the USB to a computer and VE Bus to the Victron device.
Use VEConfig from Victron connect and download the current configuration.
Then, on the inverter tab there's a "Ground relay" check box. Uncheck it
Save the config to the Victron device.

The above solution always disables ground relay. The Victron device is smart and bonds ground and neutral when it detects floating ground. That's a safety feature.

If you want to enable and disable it based on a switch, use Victron assistants and Aux 1 or 2 inputs to enable/disable ground relay. See the assistants tab. I don't have hands on experience with this.

Finally, you can use a "cheater plug" I am told. Again, no hands-on experience with this.
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Old 06-04-2024, 10:48 AM   #7
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Finally, you can use a "cheater plug" I am told. Again, no hands-on experience with this.
Thanks! By "cheater plug" do you mean a grounding plug for a generator? Those don't work on the ProPower, they create a ground fault on the Ford side immediately when plugged in.
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Old 06-09-2024, 09:23 AM   #8
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Something is not right. My Coleman 15,000 BTU AC pulls 11.5 A or about 1400 watts when the compressor is running, and the fan is on high, it does have a soft start installed.

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Old 06-10-2024, 07:29 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Nishad View Post
Connect the USB to a computer and VE Bus to the Victron device.
Use VEConfig from Victron connect and download the current configuration.
Then, on the inverter tab there's a "Ground relay" check box. Uncheck it
Save the config to the Victron device.

The above solution always disables ground relay. The Victron device is smart and bonds ground and neutral when it detects floating ground. That's a safety feature.

If you want to enable and disable it based on a switch, use Victron assistants and Aux 1 or 2 inputs to enable/disable ground relay. See the assistants tab. I don't have hands on experience with this.

Finally, you can use a "cheater plug" I am told. Again, no hands-on experience with this.
Adding additional information to what Nishad provided.

Things you need to know if you want to charge your Airstream and you have a Victron Multiplus II 2x120 3kw inverter installed:

1. The 2kw Ford Pro Power generator is an inverter based generator (similar to the Honda EU2200i generator architecture)

2. Inverter based generators utilize a floating neutral design and do not internally connect the neutral wire to the ground terminal

3. For inverter based floating neutral generators, it is required that you plug a neutral to ground bonding plug into the generator before you try and charge your trailer.

4. Why is a neutral to ground bonding plug required by electrical codes? GFCI protection devices (GFCI receptacles, breakers with integrated GFCI capability, etc) require that neutral and ground be connected together in order to operate correctly.

5. The multiplus II 2x120 3kw inverter adheres to the required electrical standards and energizes a built-in neutral to ground bonding relay that bonds the neutral and ground on it's own output whenever it detects power is present on the shore power input and the incoming shore power neutral is floating and is not bonded to ground.

6. GFCI equipment measures the current leaving the hot wire and the current returning on the neutral wire and if there is any discrepancy, it triggers a fault condition and disables power to the outlet and any 120v ac outlets connected in series with the GFCI protected receptacle.

7. The 2kw Pro Power's GFCI function is extremely sensitive

8. The pro power generator has parasitic capacitance between neutral and ground.

9. When you plug in a neutral to ground bonding plug into the pro power receptacle in the bed of the truck, the bonding plug discharges the electrical charge that has accumulated on the floating neutral's parasitic capacitance.

10. Discharging the parasitic capacitor on the pro power floating neutral causes an electrical current between neutral and ground that is detected by the pro power generators GFCI function as a fault condition, causing the pro power generator to disable power to it's receptacles (Note: it shouldn't do this, but it does).

11. The built-in neutral to ground bonding relay in the multiplus also triggers the same erroneous GFCI fault condition on the Ford 2kw pro power generator whenever it engages, for the same reason that plugging in a neutral to ground bonding plug into the ford receptacles triggers a GFCI fault on the ford pro power generator.

Conclusion: Yes, you can enable the Ford 2kw pro power generator to power a trailer equipped with a Victron multiplus by disabling the built-in neutral to ground bonding relay. I have tested this myself with my 2024 Ford F350 and my 2022 Globetrotter 27 FB Twin with a Multiplus II 2x120 installed.

However (and I will use capitalization for emphasis here), YOU SHOULD NOT PERMANENTLY DISABLE THE VICTRON MULTIPLUS NEUTRAL TO GROUND BONDING RELAY!!!

Disabling the Multiplus neutral to ground bonding relay also disables GFCI protection on the Airstreams GFCI protected circuits (usually these are the kitchen, bathroom, and external 120v receptacles on the trailer). THIS IS UNSAFE!!

You can confirm this is true the same way I did. By disabling the relay, then plugging in a GFCI tester into one of the trailers GFCI protected outlets, then triggering the GFCI tester. I confirmed that the tester will no longer trigger the GFCI outlet when the trailer is not connected to shore power, the inverter is enabled, and the neutral to ground bonding relay is disabled. Enabling the relay restored the GFCI function when I tested this.

Note: If your trailer is plugged into an RV park pedestal (or any other non-generator based 120v ac power sources) when you disable the the bonding relay to run this experiment, the GFCI function in the trailer will still trip when you test the GFCI function because the neutral to ground bond is provided by the shore power system instead of the multiplus as long as your shore power system follows the standard electrical code. This might provide a false sense of security.

Ergo, if you disable the multiplus neutral to ground bonding relay while powering your trailer using the 2kw pro power generator, you SHOULD NOT plug anything into your trailers GFCI protected outlets in the kitchen, bathroom or the exterior 120v ac receptacle on the outside of your trailer as these plugs will lack protection against accidental hot to ground shorts as long as you have the neutral to ground bonding relay disabled.

You MUST enable the neutral to ground bonding relay after you are finished powering your trailer or charging your batteries with the trucks pro power generator. Otherwise, you will not have GFCI protection in the future whenever you are using your inverter to power the trailers 120v outlets. This is unsafe and you risk accidental electrocution.

Thus, you should only temporarily disable the multiplus neutral to ground bonding relay when powering the trailer from your 2kw pro power generator.

There are two ways to temporarily disable the neutral to ground bonding relay:

1. Use a victron USB to ve.bus Mk3 adapter or the veconfig over VRM (victron remote management) service to disable the neutral to ground bonding relay and restore the relay function once you are done powering the trailer with the 2kw pro power generator.

2. Do as Nishad suggested. Install a switch in the trailer and program the inverter to disable the neutral to ground bonding relay whenever the switch is activated.

With either method above, you can disable the bonding relay, charge your trailer batteries or power the trailer with the pro power generator (while avoiding the use of the trailers GFCI protected receptacles) and then enable the automatic bonding relay function again when you are finished.

I will go ahead a post this information along with some photos to a separate thread dedicated to this solution.
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Old 06-10-2024, 11:41 AM   #10
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Thanks for all of the research and information provided. Greatly appreciated. I do have a somewhat related question. On the Super Duties, they must be running to power the inverter unlike the Hybrid F150's. That said, it does not allow you to put the vehicle in drive while ProPower is active and something is plugged into bed receptacle. Is there a way to bypass this as I would like to have that bed plug active to plug in a refrigerated cooler, or maybe even have the trailer connected while running. (I have a front plug on the trailer so not difficult to potentially secure and run a chord from the bed) Just curious of a work around mainly for the cooler plug in. Thanks.
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Old 06-11-2024, 06:32 PM   #11
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Thanks for all of the research and information provided. Greatly appreciated. I do have a somewhat related question. On the Super Duties, they must be running to power the inverter unlike the Hybrid F150's. That said, it does not allow you to put the vehicle in drive while ProPower is active and something is plugged into bed receptacle. Is there a way to bypass this as I would like to have that bed plug active to plug in a refrigerated cooler, or maybe even have the trailer connected while running. (I have a front plug on the trailer so not difficult to potentially secure and run a chord from the bed) Just curious of a work around mainly for the cooler plug in. Thanks.

I saw the following posted in a forum I follow (I remembered seeing something about Superduty and Propower and went back and found it). Original poster couldn't get into generator mode once the low fuel indicator came on.

Based on the post, generator mode should work while you are driving...
I found the following in the owner's manual:
Note: When the outlet is switched on and the vehicle is in park (P) the engine turns off 30 minutes after the low fuel warning is displayed. After the vehicle is turned off, generator mode only operates while driving or until the vehicle is refueled.
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Old 06-15-2024, 10:04 PM   #12
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...

3. For inverter based floating neutral generators, it is required that you plug a neutral to ground bonding plug into the generator before you try and charge your trailer.
I run my trailer from my Honda 2000i all the time without a bonding plug. This works because I do not have an Energy Management System (EMS). The reason you can't run some trailers without the bonding plug is the EMS expects the neutral and ground to be connected. If they are not, as in an inverter generator, the EMS interrupts the power to the trailer.

4. Why is a neutral to ground bonding plug required by electrical codes? GFCI protection devices (GFCI receptacles, breakers with integrated GFCI capability, etc) require that neutral and ground be connected together in order to operate correctly.

In actuality, neutral to ground bonding is not required for portable generators. Unbonded generators are clearly envisioned by NFPA 70 445.20; in fact, that is the name of the section. The reason for this is that when a portable generator is used in a standalone system the power generated has no reference to ground and there is, therefore, no shock hazard to earth ground.

GFCIs operate by sensing the difference between current on the hot and neutral conductors. If the difference exceeds some threshold the GFCI trips to interrupt flow of current.
...

I am also curious about the statement that discharging the parasitic capacitance is what trips the Propower GFCI, for several reasons. If you truly meant a parasitic capacitance, as between wires in the system, that capacitance would be small, therefore not capable of sourcing much current. Further, the capacitor is subject to 60 HZ AC, the amount of charge on the capacitance would be varying between plus and minus at a 60 Hz rate. It seems more likely to me that some fault path exists in the Propower to allow some of the load current to return through the ground conductor instead of the neutral, therefore tripping the GFCI protection function.

Alternatively, while I don't understand the process, I have read that using a GFCI to protect a branch circuit with GFCIs can result in false trips. There have been reports on here that members tried t operate their trailer from a 15A GFCI in the garage which tripped and when they ran the trailer from a non-GFCI outlet, it worked fine. I wonder if the GFCI in the trailer is tripping the GFCI in the Propower. Did you test the problem of Propower trips while using the bonding jumper with the circuit breaker to the trailer GFCI circuit turned off?

IMHO, YMMV, etc.
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Old 06-20-2024, 08:21 AM   #13
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I tried this with breaker grci off, as soon you plug in tester it will trip the Ford again.

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I am also curious about the statement that discharging the parasitic capacitance is what trips the Propower GFCI, for several reasons. If you truly meant a parasitic capacitance, as between wires in the system, that capacitance would be small, therefore not capable of sourcing much current. Further, the capacitor is subject to 60 HZ AC, the amount of charge on the capacitance would be varying between plus and minus at a 60 Hz rate. It seems more likely to me that some fault path exists in the Propower to allow some of the load current to return through the ground conductor instead of the neutral, therefore tripping the GFCI protection function.

Alternatively, while I don't understand the process, I have read that using a GFCI to protect a branch circuit with GFCIs can result in false trips. There have been reports on here that members tried t operate their trailer from a 15A GFCI in the garage which tripped and when they ran the trailer from a non-GFCI outlet, it worked fine. I wonder if the GFCI in the trailer is tripping the GFCI in the Propower. Did you test the problem of Propower trips while using the bonding jumper with the circuit breaker to the trailer GFCI circuit turned off?

IMHO, YMMV, etc.
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Old 06-20-2024, 08:31 AM   #14
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Outlet testers trip the Ford ProPower on their own. Plug it in to the bed and it will trip.
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