HW Removal - Confused and Distressed... help?

[robwok]

I want to replace my original Bowen HW heater. I had a hard freeze and just about everthing burst, and all my connections were forced apart. As you can see, my AS is really great shape. Even the HW tank looks like it's in great shape. I'd like to remove it with as little damage as possible, both to the tank, as well as the AS. Someone may be crazy enough to want parts off of it (the exterior parts will be reused, but someone may want the burner, regulator?)

Anyway, my problem is 2 fold. Does it come out from the inside, or the outside? I think the answer is both. I think there is a shroud part that is pulled from the outside, and the tank itself is pulled from the inside.

Is there any trick in removing the cabinets? I don't know if you can tell, but other than the floor, my cabinets are perfect, and so is the toilet bench. I don't want to injure any of it. It looks like I have to cut the vent stack to remove the screws that are holding the main 1x6, and there are some screws at an angle inside the closet that are tying the wardrobe to the right to this closet.

Any insight would be appreciated, and if you want parts, just let me know (except for the outside - I have to decide how much I need to make the new one look like it's original.)

[Colin H]

Rob,
The whole thing comes out from the outside, but why are you taking it out? Have you pressure tested it yet? Mine is 52 years old & it still works, so yours may be fine despite all the carnage with your interior plumbing. A new one will probably not last 10 years & will set you back $400+.
Colin

[safari62]

Originally Posted by Colin H

Rob,
The whole thing comes out from the outside, but why are you taking it out? Have you pressure tested it yet? Mine is 52 years old & it still works, so yours may be fine despite all the carnage with your interior plumbing. A new one will probably not last 10 years & will set you back $400+.
Colin

Yea.... what Colin said....except that I could not remove my ex Bowen from the outside. I had to remove the woodwork and water tank first then ease out the exhaust vent through the side opening. It was big AND heavy. It was full of rust and burner was very corroded. Maybe it could have been revived?

It was replaced with a direct spark gas/electric Suburban model. About twenty pounds lighter weight and has worked great for the last eight years....only two years to live? Gulp.

I revented the original exterior vent to work with the new heater. Same with the furnace.....now that was really a goner!

[graniteshore]

Hi,

In my 64 Tradewind I found that I had to remove the water heater from the inside. It is much to big to be taken out through the opening. I put in an Atwood 6 gallon with electronic ignition, reworked the outside shroud to properly vent and have been very happy with the switch.

To get the bath cabinet out without removing the bed is a challenge. I found that I had to make a clean cut up the front front of the bottom of the cabinet and then repair it later. You can do this and you will be pleased with the results later.

[vswingfield]

If you remove the outer trim and mounting parts highlighted in red in the photo, the hole is much larger. The water heater will then come out this hole. That's how I got mine out of my Trade Wind.

There will be some screws that you have to remove from inside the cabinets and you may have to move some things out of the way. You definitely will have to unhook the plumbing first before you can move it out the hole.

Looks like you've already remove the screws on the trim. I think you're on the right track. Colin is right, though, be sure and see if it is OK before you go to any more trouble.

Good luck!

[mimiandrews]

It will come out through the outside--ours did. This thread contains some great pictures that we found to be a big help.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f445...-in-36653.html

[Colin H]

Rob,
You should also keep in mind that if your burner is DOA, these are replaceable too.
Colin

[robwok]

Originally Posted by Colin H

Rob,
You should also keep in mind that if your burner is DOA, these are replaceable too.
Colin

Colin:

I love the help, but you have to realize, not all of us are sailor/racecarmechanic/fullmonterestorer/whoknowswhatelse guys like Colin Hyde. I don't really relish the idea of getting up on a frosty morning and finding I have no hot water and spending the morning out at the side of my vehicle trying to get the hot water tank working before my wife and kids get up.

The life of my current heater is what? Nobody knows. The usable life on a Bowen is what? It could last 20 years, and it could last 6 months. The life on a new unit is 10 years? I'm at a point now where I'm looking at redoing everything. I have to replace all the water lines. I probably have to replace all the copper LP lines since the PO unhooked the tanks over 5 years ago and left the lines just hanging.

I noticed you have a new water pump with expansion tank in your pics. Those don't last for 50 years?

I get a lot of mixed reviews. Considering I have a empty rental house right now, money is tighter than it was before. I guess I'd be willing to consider keeping the old tank, but I'm not sure what to look for. Is there a good way to perform a pressure test? Should I replace all of my propane lines before I hook up the propane and test it out? I have to buy new tanks, but not sure if I should get a new regulator.

[robwok]

Originally Posted by vswingfield

If you remove the outer trim and mounting parts highlighted in red in the photo, the hole is much larger. The water heater will then come out this hole. That's how I got mine out of my Trade Wind.

There will be some screws that you have to remove from inside the cabinets and you may have to move some things out of the way. You definitely will have to unhook the plumbing first before you can move it out the hole.

Looks like you've already remove the screws on the trim. I think you're on the right track. Colin is right, though, be sure and see if it is OK before you go to any more trouble.

Good luck!

I've been really gentle with it, but I definitely disturbed the butyl tape behind the trim. Let's say I find out it works great. Can I slide it out a little to put in the new tape, and then slide it back?

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by robwok

I've been really gentle with it, but I definitely disturbed the butyl tape behind the trim. Let's say I find out it works great. Can I slide it out a little to put in the new tape, and then slide it back?

Sounds like a plan to me. Vulkum might also work instead of the butyl tape. Comments anyone?

[safari62]

Originally Posted by Colin H

Rob,
You should also keep in mind that if your burner is DOA, these are replaceable too.
Colin

That's interesting....they still make replacement parts for 49 year old water heaters? How about the interior tank and signs of rust? I think my trailer sat unused for about a ten year period and that took a toll.

But....maybe it could have been saved?? I have to say the new Suburban works great and the DSI feature adds a small dose of otherwise missing "high tech" features found in my trailer. first thing I do after waking up is reach over and click the switch on and wait for that hiss, click and pop of the burner sound. I sometimes look out the window at this moment to watch others flicking the bic on hands and knees to light the morning fire. Then doze off awhile longer.

Looking at my photos again I still do not think my heater would have fit through the exterior opening....and the photo shows the outer trim removed. Maybe it was a larger model? It was REALLY heavy.

I also replaced the steel fresh water tank with a plastic one and the mid section double bed frame was out anyway. This made the interior removal easier.

I did make one mistake and opted for the ten gallon model. I now think a six gallon would be a better choice as the water heats very fast and has size and weight benefits.

I have also never used the electric element feature.

[FreshAir]

Here is the pictorial - tutorial thread of my Bowen removal.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f445...-in-36653.html
Neil

[FreshAir]

Originally Posted by safari62

That's interesting....they still make replacement parts for 49 year old water heaters? How about the interior tank and signs of rust? I think my trailer sat unused for about a ten year period and that took a toll.

But....maybe it could have been saved?? I have to say the new Suburban works great and the DSI feature adds a small dose of otherwise missing "high tech" features found in my trailer. first thing I do after waking up is reach over and click the switch on and wait for that hiss, click and pop of the burner sound. I sometimes look out the window at this moment to watch others flicking the bic on hands and knees to light the morning fire. Then doze off awhile longer.

Looking at my photos again I still do not think my heater would have fit through the exterior opening....and the photo shows the outer trim removed. Maybe it was a larger model? It was REALLY heavy.

I also replaced the steel fresh water tank with a plastic one and the mid section double bed frame was out anyway. This made the interior removal easier.

I did make one mistake and opted for the ten gallon model. I now think a six gallon would be a better choice as the water heats very fast and has size and weight benefits.

I have also never used the electric element feature.

Hmmmm, my burner was toast and I searched everywhere that I could for a replacement. Now granted this was 3 years ago and the 'word' then that it was a dinasoar. My search became unnecessary when upon removal of the WH I discovered the begining of a leak on it's bottom.
Neil

[robwok]

Originally Posted by safari62

I did make one mistake and opted for the ten gallon model. I now think a six gallon would be a better choice as the water heats very fast and has size and weight benefits.

I have also never used the electric element feature.

On the 6 gallon - do you ever have 2 people take showers back to back? (I know that's physically impossible in a rear bath unless you are very small). We are a family of 4. I personally like the idea of hot water running out of my son who takes forever, but not when my wife is taking a shower.

Would really be neat to wire in an electric switch - kind of like a coffee maker, but I usually make my coffee before I get in the shower, so I guess it's not needed.

Since you have a 10 gallon, you may not have realized that the 6 would run out too quickly.

[safari62]

Originally Posted by robwok

Colin:

I love the help, but you have to realize, not all of us are sailor/racecarmechanic/fullmonterestorer/whoknowswhatelse guys like Colin Hyde. I don't really relish the idea of getting up on a frosty morning and finding I have no hot water and spending the morning out at the side of my vehicle trying to get the hot water tank working before my wife and kids get up.
.

robwok
I see you have picked up on the fact that our VAP STAR and all around great guy Colin Hyde is a man of many skills and experiences. His comfort/pain threshold may be much different then many of us that have yet to experience living in the tundra (Canada) and building experimental snow machines and ice racing in his spare time.

I believe he also travelled through many third world counties by yak (or camel) when the back of a stake body truck was not available.

I also think Colin was charmed enough to find on of those vintage trailers of some legend that was still in working condition. And if it was not....he probably can build a new part or invent a new way to fix it. And has.

I would like to have a true vintage trailer with all original equipment. As we all know the new replacement units ain't built the way they use to be.

But there is much peace of mind that can be had by going through your trailer and replacing and rebuilding everything that must be done before heading out on the road to a destination where you hope to do everything BUT work on the trailer.

I think you mentioned the trailer is it great condition....except for, well, all those things that must be repaired. Welcome to vintage trailer world. Fix it now or fix it later. At home on your terms or at a campground, or worst, on the side of the road.

So the moral of the story is: the trailer may be it great condition visually, but all the systems are suspect and need to be checked/repaired/updated or restored. Replacing the water and furnace? Sounds like a good time to renew the plumbing, gas lines, regulators now. It is never going to be easier then now.

But...I just added another year onto the completion date. But it is all part of the fun and starting on this project MAY keep you from buying another trailer in the mean time. Just trying to help!

Unfortunatley when you are finished Colin will still walk by your trailer at a future rally one day, and from thirty paces away spot the WRONG screw being used in one of your taillights! The shame with subside and life goes on.
Gary

[robwok]

Originally Posted by FreshAir

Here is the pictorial - tutorial thread of my Bowen removal.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f445...-in-36653.html
Neil

Neil:

That's extremely helpful. I'm concerned because it looks like mine is similar to the other one I saw on your post - the tank seems to be about an inch higher than the opening in the outside skin. I believe I have to take off the 4 screws on each side of the shroud, then possibly lift out the water heater from inside the closet.

[robwok]

Originally Posted by vswingfield

If you remove the outer trim and mounting parts highlighted in red in the photo, the hole is much larger. The water heater will then come out this hole. That's how I got mine out of my Trade Wind.

There will be some screws that you have to remove from inside the cabinets and you may have to move some things out of the way. You definitely will have to unhook the plumbing first before you can move it out the hole.

Looks like you've already remove the screws on the trim. I think you're on the right track. Colin is right, though, be sure and see if it is OK before you go to any more trouble.

Good luck!

Too far gone now. I dissasembled instead of taking a sawzall to everything, so the WH will probably be in great shape if someone wants it. Maybe I can sell it to Colin for several hundred since it'll last longer than a new one.

It seems that Steve from VTS was right about 64 being the year of experimentation. My WH was installed from both the inside, AND the outside.

In looking at the assembly, let me take you all back in time to how the factory did the 64 Overlander International WH in Ohio.

First, a small opening was cut in the side of the trailer. Then, this opening was reinforced from the inside with additional aluminum sheets to make the opening as small as possible.

Next, the outside flange was cut and formed, and a inner shroud was stapled to this flange. You can see that as the inside metal that touches up against the WH body. This shroud assembly was then backed with a black adhesive and the trim was filled with a significant amount of butyl tape. It was then screwed to the AS outside shell.

Next, a horizontal steel pipe was run through the top area of this shroud, and the propane was connected inside the trailer, and again from the inside of the shroud to the burner.

next, the tank was moved up to the shroud, and 4-5 screws attached the shroud to the tank from the inside of the AS.

Finally, a liberal amount of adhesive - like Vulkem was used for all of the seams to further glue the shroud to the WH.

The interior cabinets were then built around it all. Oh and the exhaust was screwed on.


So, how do you take it out?
Well, I popped the staples (not an easy thing) and pulled the outside trim off.

The best scenario is this: Burn the trailer and file an insurance claim.

Just kidding.
1. Remove the screws that are in the trailer that attach the shroud to the WH.
2. Unhook the propane supply line.
3. Then, go to the outside and cut the steel pipe that runs horizontally across. If you remove the fittings, you should be able to cut in the middle and pull the two pieces from the outside. If you don't take the ends off, you may be able to pull them through, but there are some fittings for the line to the burner that may be too hard to remove.
4. Once that line is cut, you should be able to remove the shroud. Due to the amount of glue and butyl tape, I suggest getting 2 plastic putty knives (they won't scratch the aluminum) and putting a wedge between them to slowly pry off the trim. You may be able to put a large screwdriver between them and slowly twist it to push the trim off the body of the AS.
5. Go under the body of the trailer and find the Pressure release valve drain pipe. This is a 1" pipe that hangs down through the belly pan. Use a pipe wrench to remove it from there instead of trying to do inside the AS. (unless you've removed all of the furniture, but I still think I had more room and leverage laying on the ground. The belly pan can be pushed up to get a grip on the pipe.

After that, clip or undo your water lines, and you may be able to lift it through the closet. I haven't gotten to that point yet. I finished up late last night, and just have the tank to remove, but I am afraid I may still need to remove the ABS drain lines to have enough room to get it out of there.

Feel free to post any additiona questions on this and I may be able to help. I removed mine in such a way, I could almost put it back in. Let me know if you need the old burner for parts too.

[robwok]

On a side note, I was very careful in taking the burner assembly apart last night. I did have to cut the flue. I took the screws out, and tried knocking it side to side with 2x4 to keep from damaging it, but no such luck.

If you need a flue, thermostat, or any of the lines between them, let me know. Colin Hyde gets first pick though.

[bevman]

My 1958 Bowen worked for the first months that I had my rig, then it burst. Water everywhere. I replaced it with a 6 gallon manual light Suburban, so I could reuse the old Bowen exterior venting -- much nicer than the new hatch covers. There is a tutorial here in the forum that I followed for the vent mod.

The Suburban gets hot FAST and recovers well. I keep it on the lowest setting and haven't run it dry (cold) yet.

"Pulling" the old tank out (from the outside) required getting inside and pushing with my feet, back braced against opposite cabinets.

[robwok]

Originally Posted by bevman

My 1958 Bowen worked for the first months that I had my rig, then it burst. Water everywhere. I replaced it with a 6 gallon manual light Suburban, so I could reuse the old Bowen exterior venting -- much nicer than the new hatch covers. There is a tutorial here in the forum that I followed for the vent mod.

The Suburban gets hot FAST and recovers well. I keep it on the lowest setting and haven't run it dry (cold) yet.

"Pulling" the old tank out (from the outside) required getting inside and pushing with my feet, back braced against opposite cabinets.

It's guaranteed that I can't pull it from the outside without cutting a larger hole. I have measured everything and it just is not going to happen.