Girard On-Demand Water Heater SUCKS

[jeffb831]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Out of curiosity can anybody explain the advantage of the tankless on-demand water heater over the traditional tank model? Why did Airstream make this change?

In addition to "limitless" hot water, there is an energy savings because you don't need to keep the tank of water hot when you aren't using it

[Crackerman]

The Truma aqua go comfort is plenty, you don't need the plus, with recirculation.

The comfort has a small 1L tank that is heated, and when it cools off,or runs out due to navy style showers, it is heated again. I highly recommend painting the door trim silver, and playing the door itself with a piece of exterior skin

You will never have less that 105dgf water, and you won't have cold slugs.

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by jeffb831

In addition to "limitless" hot water, there is an energy savings because you don't need to keep the tank of water hot when you aren't using it

Respectfully disagree with the energy savings comment. To have the Girard work reasonably, we installed the Shower-miser. While it is "miserly" in saving water, we are now dumping heated water into the fresh tank to save water. The option is wasting water, which when Boondocking forces me to move MUCH more often to dump and refill fresh tank. Any energy savings are flushed away. With the Truma, there is a switch for the little 1 liter water tank on whether to keep it warm or not.....the more I write about this topic, the more I want a Truma!

[Lucky Skunk]

Originally Posted by ts8501

I made the switch to Truma! Trying to decide if I am ok with the door color as is.
Opinions?

Attachment 425826

Attachment 425827

It’s dark like the windows are. I think it looks fine. I’m already jealous of the function

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by ts8501

I made the switch to Truma! Trying to decide if I am ok with the door color as is.
Opinions?

Super jelly of the Truma! I would paint it. IMO, A water heater is something that should blend in, not be a focal point.
(which is why I need a Truma. I spend too much negative energy on the Girard)

[slurpee]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

I am also a member of the "Hate-My-Girard" club. It is a horribly designed system. Even a small decrease in hot water flow from the shower mixing valve or (heaven forbid) briefly shutting off the water, causes the burner to shut off entirely sending cold water through the system. I called Girard about this when I first got my trailer. They confirmed that my water heater is working as designed. Really?

My half-fix (e.g., cheap) was to install a shower-miser. You can see it just below the mixing valve in the picture attached. The miser does dramatically improve water usage for showering. I didn't install the blue magic-mushroom, it's not needed.

The other half of the optimal fix IMO (which I do not have) is to install a Truma Aqua-Go. It has a very small storage tank. The combination of the storage tank and the on-demand feature of the water heater, is the near perfect solution. You can even wash your hands with warm water! (can't do that with less than a GALLON of water with the Girard)

The real fix to all of this is the Truma Aqua-Go Plus recirculating water system, but this needs to be installed when the trailer is being built. I am very surprised that Airstream hasn't gone with a recirculating water heater system. The cost of running a bit of PEX pipe is minimal and would make for a much more luxurious trailer with WAY better boon-docking capabilities. I don't want the AS Corporate haters to run with this. My comment is more of a suggestion to AS than anything else.

Happy camping!

When you said "I didn't install the blue magic-mushroom, it's not needed", how do you know when to flip the switch if you don't have the mushroom to indicate it is time (water at switch is hot)?

[mplunkett]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

I am also a member of the "Hate-My-Girard" club. It is a horribly designed system. Even a small decrease in hot water flow from the shower mixing valve or (heaven forbid) briefly shutting off the water, causes the burner to shut off entirely sending cold water through the system. I called Girard about this when I first got my trailer. They confirmed that my water heater is working as designed. Really?

My half-fix (e.g., cheap) was to install a shower-miser. You can see it just below the mixing valve in the picture attached. The miser does dramatically improve water usage for showering. I didn't install the blue magic-mushroom, it's not needed.

The other half of the optimal fix IMO (which I do not have) is to install a Truma Aqua-Go. It has a very small storage tank. The combination of the storage tank and the on-demand feature of the water heater, is the near perfect solution. You can even wash your hands with warm water! (can't do that with less than a GALLON of water with the Girard)

The real fix to all of this is the Truma Aqua-Go Plus recirculating water system, but this needs to be installed when the trailer is being built. I am very surprised that Airstream hasn't gone with a recirculating water heater system. The cost of running a bit of PEX pipe is minimal and would make for a much more luxurious trailer with WAY better boon-docking capabilities. I don't want the AS Corporate haters to run with this. My comment is more of a suggestion to AS than anything else.

Happy camping!

Do you have a picture behind the shower wall showing how you plumbed?

[slurpee]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

Respectfully disagree with the energy savings comment. To have the Girard work reasonably, we installed the Shower-miser. While it is "miserly" in saving water, we are now dumping heated water into the fresh tank to save water. The option is wasting water, which when Boondocking forces me to move MUCH more often to dump and refill fresh tank. Any energy savings are flushed away. With the Truma, there is a switch for the little 1 liter water tank on whether to keep it warm or not.....the more I write about this topic, the more I want a Truma!

If you operate Showermiser properly you will divert hot water to the facet when the mushroom or pipe indicator changes color. The only reason hot water would enter your freshwater tank is if you were not paying attention and allowing recirculation to continue after the color indicator changes, or in your case, you failed to install the Mushroom (water temperature indicator)

[slurpee]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

Respectfully disagree with the energy savings comment. To have the Girard work reasonably, we installed the Shower-miser. While it is "miserly" in saving water, we are now dumping heated water into the fresh tank to save water. The option is wasting water, which when Boondocking forces me to move MUCH more often to dump and refill fresh tank. Any energy savings are flushed away. With the Truma, there is a switch for the little 1 liter water tank on whether to keep it warm or not.....the more I write about this topic, the more I want a Truma!

I didn't realize when I last responded that you are same individual who said they didn't need the mushroom installed with your showermiser. no wonder you are dumping hot water into your freshwater tank, you didn't install the indicator that helps you to avoid that.

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by slurpee

If you operate Showermiser properly you will divert hot water to the facet when the mushroom or pipe indicator changes color. The only reason hot water would enter your freshwater tank is if you were not paying attention and allowing recirculation to continue after the color indicator changes, or in your case, you failed to install the Mushroom (water temperature indicator)

The water dumps into the fresh water tank when I take a Navy shower. Instead of shutting the water off, I flick the shower-miser and let it dump into the fresh tank. Then when I'm ready to rinse, I turn it back to the shower head and glorious hot water flows out....as oppose to a good shot of cold water with just the Girard.

The color changing mushroom isn't needed b/c the water temperature is displayed on the digital readout in the bathroom. When it hits about 108, I jump in the shower.
:-)

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by mplunkett

Do you have a picture behind the shower wall showing how you plumbed?

See picture below of back of shower. All of the blue PEX was added for the shower miser install, the white and red was from AS as delivered. It's very easy with PEX. See post #49 in the following thread for all the part numbers and information.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-229422-3.html

[slurpee]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

The water dumps into the fresh water tank when I take a Navy shower. Instead of shutting the water off, I flick the shower-miser and let it dump into the fresh tank. Then when I'm ready to rinse, I turn it back to the shower head and glorious hot water flows out....as oppose to a good shot of cold water with just the Girard.

The color changing mushroom isn't needed b/c the water temperature is displayed on the digital readout in the bathroom. When it hits about 108, I jump in the shower.
:-)

I'm about to install 3 misers (1 shower 2 sinks). The (Girard) Digital readout in my 2021 GT25FB bathroom is not visible from the shower across the hall. Left with no option but to cut hole in shower for mushroom, I'll feel better being able to recycle undesired cold water back into freshwater tank, have instant hot at shower head when I flip the diverter, and save $$$$ not having to replace Girard. As much off grid as we do, I'll take the cut in the wall for the benefits!

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Out of curiosity can anybody explain the advantage of the tankless on-demand water heater over the traditional tank model? Why did Airstream make this change?

I expect the decision was based on the notion that tankless water heaters use less energy and are therefore the right thing to install. And they probably are more efficient in houses inhabited by only one or two people, where a water heater remains hot all day with no need for it.

However, they don’t save water, and extreme water conservation is integral to using a trailer with no hookups. They’re also annoying to people like me who never leave the shower running constantly, whether I’m in the trailer or in a house. I personally wouldn’t buy one. I first experienced one in a house 15 years ago, and I was not impressed. A smaller water heater makes more sense to me.

And in terms of energy conservation, we generally don’t leave the water heater on throughout the day. We will flip the switch 15 minutes before showering or washing dishes, and that seems to do the job just fine. We simply don’t need to have 6 gallons of hot water at any point in time.

[Roadtech]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

See picture below of back of shower. All of the blue PEX was added for the shower miser install, the white and red was from AS as delivered. It's very easy with PEX. See post #49 in the following thread for all the part numbers and information.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-229422-3.html

It is a crying shame that Airstream doesn't install a recirc plumbing system at the factory, saving us from having to butcher up a shower wall... It would be so simple and cheap to do it during the build process. If they don't want to go with the Truma, due to cost, why not do this??? Are you listening Airstream?

[Merlintiaga]

Originally Posted by slurpee

I'm about to install 3 misers (1 shower 2 sinks).

Are your 2 sinks and shower on the same side of the trailer as the fresh water tank? I would like to install another miser at the kitchen sink, but I don’t see how I can reasonably get a return PEX line from the street-side to the curb-side, which is where my fresh tank fill hose is located. :-(

if anyone has ideas or experience doing this I would love to hear.

[slurpee]

Originally Posted by Merlintiaga

Are your 2 sinks and shower on the same side of the trailer as the fresh water tank? I would like to install another miser at the kitchen sink, but I don’t see how I can reasonably get a return PEX line from the street-side to the curb-side, which is where my fresh tank fill hose is located. :-(

if anyone has ideas or experience doing this I would love to hear.

ended up only installing shower and kitchen sink. The kitchen sink is on curbside, shower and non-pressure side of water pump / fresh water tank is on street side. Had to route sink return under the floor, using the same channel for the sink feed water line.

[Brucedann]

So, Also had major issues with a new 22 GT, 25ft. 1st major trip some 6 months ago. This was to Vancouver Island from the SF Bay area. 1st night, on the Oregon border, no heat, stove did not really want to light, no hot water. What to do, my wife belongs to an AS Facebook group. She reached out for help - response was check the 2stage valve, under the main valve - propane tanks. Also wack the main valve - so I removed the tank cover, found the small valve and backed this out 1/2 turn. Stove now worked, backed out 1/2 turn more - heater and HW worked - so very neat. Got to Tofino and had a problem now and then w/HW. Some times worked great - 120 deg, other times hot and then cold. Finished trip. New trip to Carmel 2 months ago. Same HW issues. So time to find a solution. I researched the propane design system. Each appliance wants to see an average of 11" of water column. The Girard is rated for 11" to 14"

To measure this I purchased a Dwyer slack tube manometer kit, this measures water column. I set his up per instruction. To attach to the gas line I used the exterior valve I use for my propane grill. I had to get a fitting so to reduce to the 1/4 barbed fitting that comes with the kit.

The big moment: attach slack tube, open valve: Bingo, existing WC measured like 10.5, I was below the min 11". Fired off the stove, down to 10". So I then started to open the 2nd stage valve - after 4 more turns which I feel is too much, WC is 12.5". So I fired off the shower - hot water right away. let run and opened sink valve - again HW - 120 deg. Turn off, just run sink - again HW no issue.


I have a trip between Christmas and NY. This will be the final test. Now AS should of tested this before I received the GT. I feel, the actual propane 2stage valve is the root cause to many of the HW complaints, some have no issues, other like me had major issues. Quality control of the valve? I do not know. Also propane is dependent on outside temp and elevation. So I will ck WC on several trips as to elevation - 6-7000ft and also next summer - 100deg+ days.

Hope this helps - Bruce

[WhatNext]

Like Brucedann (above), I had a problem with the propane flow adjustment screw on the regulator but the hot water heater worked normally (ugh!) for our 1st trip in the AS (6k miles). Then during a subsequent 4k mile trip, the hot water output temp started decreasing.

The flame was blue and even. The stove and furnace were working fine. Was it the control board or the built in filter on the water heater (which I couldn't access without pulling the heater out)? Could I find and get into an AS dealer? (forget about that!) Do I buy a new control board and slap it in? Then the air coming out of the furnace wasn't getting hot. Ha Ha, a gas supply issue! Went looking to buy a new regulator but decided to try the same flow adjustment valve that Brucedann talks about. A half turn on the screw and everything was back to normal! A clog or did the valve seat move on its own? Who knows? But if it happens again I know to muck with the valve first.

[Brucedann]

I want to follow up on this test. In Carmel for the last 5 days. All worked perfect. Hot water at the sink, shower was used once or twice a day and never had an issue. Water temp is set at 122 degrees. Shower takes 30 seconds to get hot, ( know, a waste if you boondock, but this can be fixed ) once hot, had to turn down the hot to 75% as too hot.

Setting the actual proper output, WC, from the secondary pressure valve was the trick. Should you do this without the proper tool? Your call, this only cost me $220. Can I measure electrical issues without a multi meter - no. To actually see the valve had to be opened over 4-5 complete turns make no sense. I will retest this during the summer due to heat and elevation. I still think the valves have an issue and quality control is probably the root cause.

All in all, this heater seems to be great once adjusted.
Bruce

[kscherzi]

When boondocking I put the showerhead into the teapot until water comes out hot. Use the water later for coffee, so no waste. Should add, have the traditional hot water tank in my trailer.