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Old 09-24-2006, 12:27 PM   #1
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Any PLUMBERS out there?? Pressure regulator, water pump questions

We are replacing the entire water system in my 1976 ARGOSY 24 with PEX.

The attached photo is of the 30-year-old pressure regulator, set at 45 psi. Are there more modern, smaller sized regulators available now?

The check or overflow valve next in line after the water exits the regulator: what function does it serve?

If Iím describing the regulator as ď30 year oldĒ, perhaps implying a new one will be better, doesnít that go for the water pump too?

The current one is a PAR type IV Model 36975-1060. Flow rate 2.8 US, 2.3 Canadian gallons per minute.

It doesnít say what pressure. I assume 45 if the regulator was 45 pounds.

What is the best new pump out there?

Do I assume that if I get a pump rated at 65 psi that I will need a new matching pressure regulator in any case?

Thanks in advance for suggestions and help.

Sergei



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Old 09-24-2006, 12:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokelessJoe
We are replacing the entire water system in my 1976 ARGOSY 24 with PEX.

The attached photo is of the 30-year-old pressure regulator, set at 45 psi. Are there more modern, smaller sized regulators available now?

The check or overflow valve next in line after the water exits the regulator: what function does it serve?

If I’m describing the regulator as “30 year old”, perhaps implying a new one will be better, doesn’t that go for the water pump too?

The current one is a PAR type IV Model 36975-1060. Flow rate 2.8 US, 2.3 Canadian gallons per minute.

It doesn’t say what pressure. I assume 45 if the regulator was 45 pounds.

What is the best new pump out there?

Do I assume that if I get a pump rated at 65 psi that I will need a new matching pressure regulator in any case?

Thanks in advance for suggestions and help.

Sergei



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The attached photo is of to sethe 30-year-old pressure regulator, set at 45 psi. Are there more modern, smaller sized regulators available now?
The old Watts Regulator was state of the art at that time, and guess what it still is. Pressure regulators have not changed too much. If your old Watts is still regulating and not leaking use it. You would be hard pressed to get anything better. IMHO

The check or overflow valve next in line after the water exits the regulator: what function does it serve? I think you are talking about the back flow preventor. Keeps the trailer water system from flowing back into city water.

If I’m describing the regulator as “30 year old”, perhaps implying a new one will be better, doesn’t that go for the water pump too? Newer pumps are better. Higher flow with lower current draw. Go with a new one.

The current one is a PAR type IV Model 36975-1060. Flow rate 2.8 US, 2.3 Canadian gallons per minute.

It doesn’t say what pressure. I assume 45 if the regulator was 45 pounds.

What is the best new pump out there? ??????

Do I assume that if I get a pump rated at 65 psi that I will need a new matching pressure regulator in any case? No, your pressure regulator drops the water pressure to 45psi. This is a good pressure at a faucet.
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Old 09-24-2006, 01:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet's Husband
The attached photo is of to sethe 30-year-old pressure regulator, set at 45 psi. Are there more modern, smaller sized regulators available now?
The old Watts Regulator was state of the art at that time, and guess what it still is. Pressure regulators have not changed too much. If your old Watts is still regulating and not leaking use it. You would be hard pressed to get anything better. IMHO

The check or overflow valve next in line after the water exits the regulator: what function does it serve? I think you are talking about the back flow preventor. Keeps the trailer water system from flowing back into city water.

If Iím describing the regulator as ď30 year oldĒ, perhaps implying a new one will be better, doesnít that go for the water pump too? Newer pumps are better. Higher flow with lower current draw. Go with a new one.

The current one is a PAR type IV Model 36975-1060. Flow rate 2.8 US, 2.3 Canadian gallons per minute.

It doesnít say what pressure. I assume 45 if the regulator was 45 pounds.

What is the best new pump out there? ??????

Do I assume that if I get a pump rated at 65 psi that I will need a new matching pressure regulator in any case? No, your pressure regulator drops the water pressure to 45psi. This is a good pressure at a faucet.

I would replace the regulator with a new Watts, no worries for another 30 years.

Jim
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Old 09-24-2006, 02:29 PM   #4
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Sergei,
In actuallity, the WATTS water pressure regulator is for the outside water source only. it regulates the pressure of the water coming in. The water pump draws water from the water tank, should only be used with the outside water pressure turned OFF, The pump has it's own pressure regulater built in. It is set to shut off at a certain psi and come on at a somewhat less psi, thereby keeping a somewhat steady flow of water for the shower, water spigot, etc.
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Old 09-24-2006, 02:46 PM   #5
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Hi SmoklessJoe--I removed my Watts city water pressure regulator 18-years ago as it had a small freezer crack compliments of the PO. I replaced it with a $8.XX Marshall Brass pressure regulator which screws onto the the city water outlet, prior to my white inlet water hose to the A/S. It is preset to 40/45psi and also protects the white hose. You already have answers, above, to how the back flow check valve works, which I left original.--Frank S
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Old 09-24-2006, 04:14 PM   #6
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Thanks Gary, Jim, Steelbird and Frank for your help.

(This is not the first time Janetís Husband has helped on my project and I appreciate that).

Iíve decided to buy the SHURFLO ďSmart SensorĒ 4 gpm pump. It seems to have the best combination of low noise factor, highest psi and lowest amp draw.

Iíll take a look at regulators, keeping in mind Garyís and Jimís opposite opinions and Frankís interesting new twist.

Steelbird, thanks for pointing out the obvious: the water regulator regulates only the incoming city water. In a long, drawn-out renovation like mine one sometimes loses oneís ability to think logically.

Thanks all.


Sergei
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:03 PM   #7
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Friends:

My Argosy didn't have a shut-off between the holding tank and the original pump.

Would it be a good or bad idea to install one when putting in the new Shurflo?

Thanks.

Sergei
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Old 10-05-2006, 09:25 PM   #8
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Why not put in a 3-way valve, then you can suck antifreeze through the pump, and be able to shut off the tank also.
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Old 10-06-2006, 06:32 AM   #9
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I agree with Markdoane. Put in a three way valve. The BEST way to winterize a trailer, takes 10 minutes, and you will never have a frozen pipe ( only if you use it). Also, while you are doing the total replumbing of your trailer, put a bypass at your water heater, that way you don't run 6 gal of antifreeze into your hot water heater.
Total winterizing: drain the hot water heater
turn the bypass valve at the water heater
open a jug of antifreeze, and insert hose from 3 way valve
open each water outlet until it runs pink (remember the toilet and the sprayer)
YOU"RE THROUGH!!!!
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Old 10-06-2006, 03:51 PM   #10
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Steelbird; Markdoane:

Thanks for the suggestions. I will follow both of them but I need help in understanding how to do it.

Can someone make a drawing of both systems for me?

2-way:

I donít have a valve yet but am looking at a picture of one.

There are three ports. One is at the top. Do I assume water enters at the top and is diverted left or right, depending which way you turn the lever?

If so, how do you make this work ďin lineĒ, between the holding tank and the water pump?

How does the antifreeze get introduced to the valve?

By-pass

Do you simply install Tís and shut-offs at the cold line going in and hot line coming out of the water heater, then connect the two Tís, having a third shut-off in the connecting line?

Would TWO 2 ways used instead of 2 Tís and 3 shut-offs work and be a more elegant solution?

Help gratefully received.

Sergei





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Old 10-06-2006, 04:10 PM   #11
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2 way-
You have one common and two switchable ports. Cut the line between the water tank and the pump. Hook the common to the hose to the pump. Connect one of the switch lines to the line from the water tank. The other switched line will have a cap on it most of the time. When you winterize you remove the cap and install a short hose. Switch the valve to this port and suck your anti-freeze solution though this hose.

By pass-
The two ways with a line between them is what the PO of my trailer did.

BTW, I do not winterize my trailer
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:05 PM   #12
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New to an RV but many years on my boat, I just add the antifreze (pink stuff) to the water tank when just pump it thru all the faucets, that also gets it in the drains.

I do this until I empty the water tank.
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Old 10-06-2006, 10:18 PM   #13
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Bob:

Since I am redoing the entire plumbing system, stem to stern, it will be less expensive to put in a by pass at the water heater now then to pay for 6 gallons of additional anti freeze every year.

Sergei
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Old 10-07-2006, 08:12 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipets
New to an RV but many years on my boat, I just add the antifreze (pink stuff) to the water tank when just pump it thru all the faucets, that also gets it in the drains.

I do this until I empty the water tank.
I think that most people who winterize (I do not ) do not want to deal with getting the antifreeze out of the main tank.
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Old 10-07-2006, 08:28 AM   #15
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Richard:

Thanks for all the information on the valves and by-pass.

I hope to be in warm weather every remaining winter of my life so I may never winterize either. But I shouldnít overlook a detail like a heater by-pass having spent the time and bucks that have gone into my reno thus far.

Sergei
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Old 10-10-2006, 06:15 AM   #16
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Smokeless Joe,
The systems can be purchased at Camping World for very little.
Look here
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...15717&src=SRQB

and here
http://www.campingworld.com/browse/s...=6279&src=SRQB

You drain your water tank and water heater, and only use a gal or so of antifreeze. Cheapest and most effective winterizing of any method.
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Old 11-14-2006, 06:28 PM   #17
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OK, people.

While installing the first part of the all new IPEX Aqua plumbing Iíve encountered a puzzling problem with the original Watts regulator, check valve and overflow- parts which Iíd decided to re-cycle.

(The IPEX is amazingly easy to use, BTW).

A quick explanation of the plumbing, then the problem:

Explanation:

The photo is of the necessarily congested area under cabinetry in the rear bath. (I want all the drains in one place. Easy access will be had by removing a lower shelf.)

City water enters from below at the rear and proceeds through the check valve, the regulator and an overflow device before turning 90^ to a T into the main cold line.

The next T to the left of the 90 is were the winter drain exits at the top, running along the back wall to the shut-off and a flexible plastic hose exiting the trailer.

From the left side of this same T, the water proceeds to another T up to the sink and also past a shut-off, into the rear wall and running to the shower and toilet.

The hot line runs in the foreground, with a T off to a winter drain, another T to the sink riser and a shut off to the other in-wall shower line.

(The hidden lines to the shower and toilet are well protected with closed cell and bubble insulation as well as wrapped with electric heating cable, good to 40^ below. Thatís why the electric cord among the pipes.)

One of the fan coil units in the hydronic heating system also sits here, as in the photo. It will add to the congestion with it's two 3/4Ē rubber coolant lines but Iíve layed it out in a dry run and everything fits.

Problem:

No leaks but water is running out of the overflow.

The regulator is marked 45 psi and I hadnít adjusted anything. The overflow is rated 125 psi ďunless stamped otherwiseĒ, and it is stamped 60 psi.

I know that the water at my house is much higher pressure than usual, around 75 psi.

So why is a steady stream of water bleeding off at the overflow? It didnít do this in the original ARGOSY setup and I havenít fiddled with any of the settings.

(I did later try to turn the screw on top the regulator inward. It didnít seem to change anything).

Why is the regulator failing to reduce the incoming 75 psi to 45 psi, which must be happening if the overflow is kicking in?

Is the regulator shot? Need more adjusting somehow? Overflow faulty? Could it be because Iíve connected the hot and cold lines together so that I could create a ďloopĒ to water pressure test the plumbing?

Maybe I should get a nice new regulator like this one:

http://nhsmarine.com/WaterPressureRegulator/default.htm


Anyone knowing what to do next please help.


Thanks,

Sergei
















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Old 11-14-2006, 07:45 PM   #18
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Hi, Smokeless Joe,

The regulator dumps excess pressure trying to maintain the set pressure by bleeding out water through the discharge line. My regulator in the Argosy dumped all the time in the campground I was in south Georgia. I bought a < $10 Marshall 30 psi external brass regulator in the RV section of Wal-Mart, and that was the end of that. I've never hooked up the water on the Excella without it, and I've never seen it dribbling water overboard.

Lamar
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Old 11-14-2006, 08:28 PM   #19
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Joe,

It looks like everything is hooked up in the proper order and direction, all I could suggest is:

1. Buy a cheap pressure gauge and check the pressure before and after the regulator. Either the regulator is out of adjustment (screw out for less pressure), or the pressure relief valve is jammed.

2. Does the relief valve gush at full flow, or is it just leaking a little bit?

You can try taking the pressure regulator apart if it is out of whack. Can't hurt it if it's broken. I prefer adjustable Watts regulators, like a 25 AUB model, available at Lowes.
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Old 11-14-2006, 09:44 PM   #20
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BEAUTIFUL work Markdoane. I shouldaí had you do mine too.

I hear what Safeharbor is saying but it canít be that the regulator works by dumping the excess pressure. The overflow valve is an entirely separate device. He must have had the same thing go wrong with his that I now have with mine.

The relief valve produces a steady stream, something like the Little Boy in Belgium. Itís not full force, as when you open a drain valve in the 1/2Ē pipe.

It is almost as if it were bleeding the difference between 75 pounds in and itís setting for 60, which would indicate that the Watts is not working. Or maybe something is jammed in the relief valve.

There is a neat 78 year old plumber still doing small jobs in our area. Maybe I can ask him to have a look.

If Iím going to spend money I think Iíd like to get that neat NHS Marine regulator I refer to above. It doesnít cost any more than a Watts from a Big Box and looks cool. I like the idea of the dial.

It mounts outside at the entry, like Lamarís. As a first test, I could add it and see what happens inside. That might reveal which device was the culprit - before I remove them.

On the other hand, itís probably good to keep the relief valve. Maybe I should call old Charlie Jackson, the real plumber.


Sergei
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