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Old 11-21-2023, 09:35 AM   #1
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
2019 FC 28 RBT - weak water delivery when on pump

Our 2019 28' FC has never had stellar water pressure when on pump but it was adequate when new.

A couple years ago we actually had a harsh winter here in TX which I guess is rare. I was unprepared and hadn't "winterized" at all, I'm afraid the entire camper froze solid including whatever water was left over. After the thaw I checked everything and seemingly only the toilet leaked. Replaced it and went on with life.

However ever since that time the water pump has developed 'gremlins':
- Generally poor pressure, water is a trickle from hot or cold side
- Generally system seems to always have some air bubbles
- Sometimes gets into a "pumping forever" loop and runs indefinitely
- If I burp the faucets the system will pressurize but pump sounds "fluttery" and takes 30-60 to stabilize and stop running
- If left on overnight pump will randomly wake up... and often get stuck in a loop
- No leaks anywhere!
- City water ok of course

I'm guessing that the freeze destroyed something in the pump, likely the backflow prevention (or whatever it's called) is no longer very sealed. Looked at the manual but it didn't offer much info: Pump is located under the fridge

I'm preparing to swap out the pump. Motivated to upgrade anything if possible at the same time, cost is not an issue. I hate having things broken and I'd love to have decent water pressure for once.

Questions:
- On this 2019 28' model, what should I expect the AMP rating on the pump circuit? (manual did not specify)
- Anyone access their water pump on this model before? Is it a PITA?
- Does this model come with an accumulator?

This Shurflo 4008 seems to be a standard recommended replacement:
https://www.amazon.com/PowerMaxs-Shu...2293384&sr=8-9

Also this Seaflow has been mentioned. Is the AMP rating too high?
Can I really get by without an accumulator with this model?
https://www.campingworld.com/seaflo-...=Skimlinks.com

Is this the recommended accumulator should I decide to install?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000N9VF6Q...NNN8MHPA6FKD9A


Thanks. Will post my progress
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Old 11-21-2023, 09:43 AM   #2
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Sounds like it is sucking air from the inlet side of the pump. I would first inspect the inlet connectors to the pump. Then check the strainer for a cracked housing. Both these items would let air into the system, but not necessarily leak out....or if they do, it would be a few drops. Typically, the lines themselves will expand and contract during a freeze, without damage.
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Old 11-25-2023, 10:26 AM   #3
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Thanks

Any other ideas or feedback from others?

How to get under the fridge in this model? All I see is the big electrical panel with the breakers. The manual offers no suggestions on how to see the pump for service. Or perhaps taking off some panels under the stove? (right next to the fridge)
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Old 11-25-2023, 11:15 AM   #4
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1962 26' Overlander
2016 28' Flying Cloud
Defiance , Missouri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalashnikov View Post
Thanks

Any other ideas or feedback from others?

How to get under the fridge in this model? All I see is the big electrical panel with the breakers. The manual offers no suggestions on how to see the pump for service. Or perhaps taking off some panels under the stove? (right next to the fridge)
On my 2016 28RBT, it's under the stove. There is an access panel behind the small door at the bottom, unscrew the white screws to open it.
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Old 11-27-2023, 11:56 AM   #5
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Related links:

2018 FC RBQ
(functionally the same as ours)
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ge-159329.html

28ft AS pump location
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f45...on-215277.html

International 28 water pump
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...-a-164770.html

Accumulator installed in 28ft model
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ll-230525.html

Weak water pump debugging
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ue-234477.html

Owners of the 2015 vintage are SOL. WP is indeed under the fridge
(and apparently the manual hasn't been updated...)
https://www.airforums.com/forums/f44...ss-140909.html
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Old 11-27-2023, 12:30 PM   #6
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Plainfield , Indiana
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 142
I have a 2013 and just replaced ours with the Shurflo 4048-153-E75. We love it. The original pump would also cycle in the middle of the night, although, not like yours did. I have no leaks, and found no leaks. The new pump does not cycle in the night. It seems they get a problem over time called "leak back". Hard water is probably the culprit.
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Old 11-27-2023, 04:51 PM   #7
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Decided to open it up....

Decided to dive in.

The stove.
Take a deep breath...



Bottom Door open!
That wasn't too bad...



Bottom plywood cover removed!
Airstream sure made damn sure that didn't come off...

(PSA: If you ever need spare screws this is the place to harvest them)



A bunch of pipes!
It's in there, right?



There it is!


Close-up shots to get specs & model number



The screen
Looks clear, no leaks

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Old 11-27-2023, 05:05 PM   #8
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
So as I poked around I noticed a long clear hose that was capped. It led back to a white 3-way valve. In another post I remember this being called the "Winterizing valve" and how it had given someone fits. The valve was set at about 45 degrees, so half way between open (along the main line) and closed (toward the clear hose.) I moved it away from the hose and in line with the main pipe.

Tried the pump - BOOM we have water again! Good flow, no bubbles, no hiccups. Pump recovers quickly! Wow - our camper has been blighted by this problem since we bought it, it's amazing to see water with almost 'city pressure' coming out of the faucets. And the shower works! Previously it was a miserable dribble.

So I'm very happy

Next set of questions:
- Does our screen look ok? I didn't see any leaks or cracks.
- Seems like I don't need to replace the pump, correct?
- And this model seems to be the same as the popular replacement item, right? What would I gain?
Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0892S6XVR...v_ov_lig_dp_it
- Doesn't look like I have an Accumulator. Should I put one in?
Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/SHURFLO-182-2...ct_top?ie=UTF8
- Any reason to get this Seaflo instead, or are they they same?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MVA6GCC...C83DD1339D7C1F
- Is an accumulator a PITA to install?

TIA
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Old 11-28-2023, 08:57 AM   #9
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Went back to play with the pump this morning, turned it on - got stuck in the "endless loop" mode again. I suspect there's some kind of backflow leak inside it.

Thinking of doing this:
- Replace pump
- Use flex hoses when doing new pump install (ie. avoid direct PEX connection as done by Air$tream)
- Install IRVWPC module
https://www.irvwpc.com/

Because the IRVWPC turns the pump into a "variable" speed... no need for an accumulator. Aggregate price is also similar. Could jump directly to a variable speed pump but those tend to require higher current and I don't wish to upgrade/debug the electrical system.
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:39 PM   #10
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Read some more threads, decided to add accumulator as well while I'm tearing apart the system.

Upgrades are all in the mail!

- New Shurflo E65 pump (to fix backflow problem)
- IRVWPC module (smooth out the pump)
- Shurflo accumulator (silent midnight flushes...)
- Shurflo "Silencer kit" hoses (easy install of everything without cutting/crimping PEX, plus pump isolation)
- A couple Shurflo 90deg elbows in case I need them

Looking forward to very quiet boondocking bliss
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Old 11-28-2023, 05:44 PM   #11
CRH
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I assume you checked the o-ring in the strainer cap.
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Old 11-28-2023, 06:49 PM   #12
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRH View Post
I assume you checked the o-ring in the strainer cap.

I didn't - never touched it before.


Is it just a rubber ring? (Assume I'm to check if it's cracked) Do I need to "prime" the strainer if I take off the lid?


EDIT:
Found a video
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Old 11-28-2023, 07:10 PM   #13
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Yes, it is a rubber o-ring. Priming the strainer by pouring a little water in won't hurt. Sometimes, just opening a faucet when turning the pump on after the system was dry is enough to prime the system.
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Old 11-29-2023, 12:52 PM   #14
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2019 28' Flying Cloud
Dripping Springs , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 328
Pulled the cover off the strainer - looked intact and clean.

However the gasket had a slight 'wrinkle' in it - likely had been like this since new. So I wiped it with some silicon lube and reinstalled it.

Now the pump has zero bubbles in the stream! Previously there was always a bubble periodically.

And furthermore the pump stops (really surges) when running only one faucet. If I run multiple faucets then the pump runs full force. This tells me there has always been some amount of air in the system causing the pump to trash around to some extent while pumping air (ie. it was only 80-90% efficient at best.)

So perhaps I'll keep the incoming pump as a spare? Still planning on adding the accumulator and pump speed modulator.
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Old 11-29-2023, 01:21 PM   #15
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Glad to hear you figured it out.
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