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08-01-2006, 12:19 AM
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#41
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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So what you're saying is have another inlet to the grey tank but below the floor for the tub.
See the updated picture. Feel free to use it as your computers desktop background
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08-01-2006, 08:43 AM
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#42
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Rivet Master
1976 Argosy 24
now being enjoyed by Heath and Mary in
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,432
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Tim:
Like Scott is telling you, you cant run the tub directly to the outlet. You must drain it back to the grey tank. The grey tank then drains to the outlet.
Keep in mind that you need slope to drain, ideally 1/4 per foot. Less will work but you have to make sure the lines run down, not up.
Your drainage system is also predicated on your trailer being level.
Dont be over concerned about the weight of water. You will usually haul this only as far as the nearest dump.
3 angle iron is probably overkill. That is extra weight you will always haul around.
Sergei
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08-01-2006, 10:00 AM
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#43
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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Yes Tim thats it right there ,the tan line /drain looks right now .That way
you don't have to be raising the tub and making other changes not needed.
Your p trap cast metal shower/tub drain does have a trap in it .low profile
so it does not hang down .I think that design right there will do it ,without
other big modifications.
Scott
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08-01-2006, 10:26 AM
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#44
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Thanks guys. Now I have a plan.
I'm not sure if I can save that cast p trap or not. I had to cut it off. I'll have to look at it closely to see.
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08-01-2006, 12:12 PM
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#45
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Patriotic
1973 23' Safari
North of Boston
, Massachusetts
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,546
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just wanted to add...I would make sure that there is some kind of trap in the tub/shower drain. you may also want to add a check valve in the drain line, to keep anything from back-sloshing into the tub while under way.
as far as draining the tank goes...your tounge jack will provide all the slope that you need .
__________________
Air:291
Wbcci: 3752
'73 Safari 23'
'00 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4 QC
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08-01-2006, 02:40 PM
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#46
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Addicted to Aluminum
1959 18' "Footer"
1964 24' Tradewind
1954 29' Liner
Woodstock
, Georgia
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,015
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hey tim,
be sure you document it here so i can take notes! i'm planning on doing our 64 trade wind sometime this fall/winter!
jp
__________________
8576
there's always room for one more!
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08-01-2006, 10:31 PM
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#47
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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Tim ,
I may retro fit the same setup yor doing in my 60 trdwnd .utilize the same setup we have been talking about .Now what do you mean you had to cut it off ,the tub piece????? You had said you were not removing it .That drain
had the step level trap setup in it.They do make brass drains similar ,but will
have no trap .I think you could use the low profile brass drain for the tub
and get a nice p trap made or purchase for it anyway that will work good.
Carry on then I can do mine the same way.
Scott
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08-01-2006, 11:28 PM
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#48
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Scott,
I had to remove the tub for a couple of reasons. I wanted to replace the floor as there was a small amount of rot. Also I wanted to expose the frame back there to make sure I get all the rot at once.
And second, I want to refinish the tub as well. Much easier with it out. Although finding someone to do it has proven difficult.
I used a sawsall and cut it flush between the floor and the top of that special trap. So I should have just cut the drain peice that screwed into it. If so and I can carefully cut out the drain piping that screwed into then I can reuse it. I have not looked at it closely.
On my '71 the trap went below the bellypan and was covered by a molded plastic cover. So that is also a possibility. But I need to keep as much clearance as I can because my Amabassador is already a low rider and backing up my driveway makes it a close call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
Tim ,
I may retro fit the same setup yor doing in my 60 trdwnd .utilize the same setup we have been talking about .Now what do you mean you had to cut it off ,the tub piece????? You had said you were not removing it .That drain
had the step level trap setup in it.They do make brass drains similar ,but will
have no trap .I think you could use the low profile brass drain for the tub
and get a nice p trap made or purchase for it anyway that will work good.
Carry on then I can do mine the same way.
Scott
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08-01-2006, 11:47 PM
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#49
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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Hello Safari Tim ,
Now is the time to do the floor the right way .So Ifigured it was necessary
to remove the tub and the p trap .When I had my trap off ,floor was in great
shape ,lucky ,I had it sandblasted /glass bead blasted at my local machine
shop ,the used marine resin right after to seal the metal from any rust or
corrosion .I did the trap when I was replacing the rear frame section and
had the belly pan down ,really was surprised the floor was so good .I have some wear in my tub and buffed it with 3m polish and gelcoat polish for
boats ,looks real nice ,some day I may pull it to re gel coat it .
Scott
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08-02-2006, 12:02 PM
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#50
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Well, I just dropped the trailer off to the welder. It will probably be there a week or so
Among other things, I have him moving a crossmember so I can put in a larger grey tank. I'm not sure how big it will be, maybe around 27 gallons or so.
He will be adding some additional bracing for the floor when he moves it.
He's one of those old guys who has his own dirty old shop, been doing it forever. I think I'm in good hands.
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08-02-2006, 02:54 PM
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#51
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Rivet Master
1976 Argosy 24
now being enjoyed by Heath and Mary in
, Vermont
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,432
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Tim:
Good call. Good luck.
Remember that a commonly available tank - there are hundreds available - will cost about one third of a custom made one.
Sergei
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08-02-2006, 07:34 PM
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#52
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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Im happy its at the welder so your trailer can get done and back to you.
Just don't let it get on the back burner as projects tend to do at the welders .Tell him you have the money so you just need it done .My stainless
guy that did my stainless pressure tank ,needed a little push .but I said
hey I have the bucks and I am really excited about my new tank ! That helped,a positive push really.Im sure the guy will do a good job,positive ..yes!
Scott
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09-12-2006, 11:54 PM
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#53
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2 Rivet Member
1959 26' Overlander
Hill Country
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 96
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So, I'm also trying to figure out how to add a grey tank, and need a new black tank.
Found a guy who'll make some fiberglass tanks at reasonable price, but he'd like to put both under floor so he can basically use same mold (a "stretched" version of one he already has).
What are the downsides of putting black tank under subfloor across most of rear section? This would probably increase my capacity from 13g. to somewhere between 15-20g, depending how far to streetside the tub drain allows me to go with tank. Would also give more headroom up above at toilet. But will it create connection or dump valve problems?
Like Tim, I'd like to put a grey tank in the frame space just ahead of axle. I got some 1.5" PVC drain pipe today: is it really OK to drill two sets of holes that big in crossmembers??? There would be one run on streetside from back to front, for lav. and tub to drain into tank (kitchen sink ties into this), another on curbside to drain tank to dump valve at rear, next to black tank dump valve. Or should I try to get dump valves over to side somehow?
Also, I had to sacrifice that rusted ribbon-like cast-iron trap under tub in order to get it out. Is there no low-profile replacement trap that fits within frame?
And when you talk about running tub drain against underside of subfloor, do you mean that literally, like you would be notching top of crossmembers rather than drilling thru them further down?
It's ~10' from bathroom to axle: does that mean I need a 2.5" drop in drain lines, both ways? Or can I run the one from bottom of tank to dump valve level, and crank front of trailer up while dumping?
Thanks for input!
__________________
Lynne
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09-13-2006, 09:43 PM
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#54
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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They do actually make a brass low profile drain .the problem is no trap ,
meaning it drains straight from the tub .the original trap has two little
metal walls inside kinda to hold the water in the trap.I don't know if it would really matter though in the original state of design . you can get them probably at lowes or home depot ,osh etc. you'll know it when you see it.
since the black tank is not connected to the grey ,the grey dumps below the black valve it should not give off sewer gases.
scott of scottanlily
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09-13-2006, 09:48 PM
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#55
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Rivet Master
1960 24' Tradewind
santa barbara
, California
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,352
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Oh Lynne ,forgot to say ,check the threads posted by Safari tim .He has some drawings that show the way he would do the grey.the last rendition
drawing I believe would be the way I would go .im waiting for him to finish his so I myself can do mine .the plumbing from the tub does run along the bottom
of the subfloor and gradually angles down to the tail piece drain outside the trailer.Don't know yet how it will be completely done .Tim hurry up with that plumbing of the grey tank ,we are waiting .
Scott of scottanlily
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09-13-2006, 10:00 PM
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#56
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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I working on it!
I'm getting bids now on a stainless steal tank 53" x 30" x 4" for around 28 gallons.
My current plan is to have the kitchen sink drain in to the top of the tank through the floor under the streetside twin. That same connection will also tie into a roof vent up the streetside closet out the roof.
The tub drain and bath sink drain will meet under the subfloor and run into the side of the tank. I'll have to drill 2" holes in the crossmembers between the rear of the trailer and the grey tank cavity. The way I understand it, its ok for this connection to be in the middle of the tank side as long as I have a roof vent.
There will be another 1.5" drain output on the curbside from the grey tank under the subfloor that will run back and meet up with the black tank output where I'll install a new valve system for the black and grey tanks.
At least thats the plan... :-)
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09-13-2006, 10:17 PM
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#57
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Lynne,
If you put the blackwater tank under the floor you will need to insulate it to prevent freezing. That will add a couple of inches to your "hang-down" in the back.
I left my blacktank above the floor. I don't know if adding a few gallons capacity is a worthwhile excercise. Can the original tank be repaired?
I added a greywater tank forward of the axle on my '59 tradewind. No problem with drilling holes in the crossmembers. I used about 1/8" per ft pitch. As you said, the pitch can be increased by using the tongue jack.
I also added a flapper valve in the shower drain line to prevent greywater backing up into the shower.
I am locating my dump valves ahead of the axle, so I do not need to worry about pitching the drain line back to the rear of the trailer. That does require that I use a pump to empty the blackwater tank, but I think dumping with a 1" hose is a lot easier than wrestling with a 3" slinky.
I think you should consider locating the dump valves on the side of the trailer, it keeps them more protected from damage.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do. Here is a picture showing the general arrangement of the drain lines from the rear lav and shower. The view is looking forward from the rear curbside corner.
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09-13-2006, 10:36 PM
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#58
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a.k.a. Ambassador Tim
1960 28' Ambassador
Northern
, California
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,921
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Since you are preventing grey water from backing into the tub, are you adding tank level sensors?
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09-14-2006, 12:24 AM
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#59
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2 Rivet Member
1959 26' Overlander
Hill Country
, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 96
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Markdoane,
Tonight, after another ridiculous conversation with the guy who's making the tank(s), I reverted back to my original plan, because he just didn't seem to "get" the whole grey tank arrangement.
I'm having him copy my black tank for above-floor re-install, will go back to blue tote concept for grey for now. We're going to be hard-wired into a septic system for the next year or more anyway, so I'll give it more thought in the interim.
Still need a shower trap, tho, don't I?
__________________
Lynne
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09-14-2006, 06:22 AM
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#60
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Rivet Master
, Minnesota
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Safari Tim
Since you are preventing grey water from backing into the tub, are you adding tank level sensors?
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Tim,
My grey tank sits crosswise, in front of the axle. It has two vents, one comes up under the kitchen sink, and the other comes up in the pantry. I mounted a vertical tee in the pantry vent, with a screw in cap.
To check the tank level I remove the cap and use a calibrated dipstick.
If I get some time, I will mount a probe in the tee, but that will happen down the road.
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