Honey Wagons in early 1960's Germany

[Ray Eklund]

When my Dad was stationed in Germany from 1960 to 1964, I recall the Honey Wagon being pulled out of the lower street level of homes by horse. Never knew where it all went until my brother and I were looking in the farm fields for 'swords and daggers' from 15th Century battles. Well... no swords, but plenty of feces. That kept us out of the fields hunting for 'swords and daggers'.

Dumping your Black Water into a home Septic System or the City Sewer System could be a massive CLOG of lots of solids, and little liquids to thin the sludge. It would take more thought, before going that route. Even the Septic Companies in rural Colorado are required to handle their Septic hauling different today. I have a Septic System and would not consider Trailer Black Water.

Toilets use 1.6 gallons of water per flush. YOUR Airstream... maybe 4 ounces, at best.

Those Threads of individuals wanting to DUMP their Black Water on theirs, friends or public lands... you cannot be serious. Even into a Septic System... no wonder Boondockers Off the Grid do not want to give out locations of their 'favorite unspoiled campsites'! Myself... now included.

Take a shovel, hike away from the campsite, water, or drainage into a river or lake, dig a small pit and drop your goods. Take the toilet paper after use and toss into the trash. Toilet Paper lasts longer than you will be alive on this Planet. I see it blowing around too many campsites already.

I am sick and tired of finding toilet paper and feces under pine trees and bushes AT CAMPSITES. Trash in the fire pits. The same shallow thinking spoilers of the outdoors.

Grey Water... down a gopher hole. OK.

If you want to take a dump in your basement, on the carpet... fine. But these individuals are not welcome to be with me, my wife and our dogs... of which, we pick up after them AT the campsite. If your standards are that low, wallow like a Pig in your urine and bowel movements.

...and some Forum Members supporting this nonsense with options of how to dump your black tank at places other than a FREE Dump Station or pay a few bucks.

Call me... too old fashioned. Indians before Columbus understood more about community disposal of wastes... by moving when the smell was too much. Obviously this is now for some Airstream owners.

[featherbedder]

The reason that german farmers used honey wagons, because animals were housed in lower level of homes with containment wall [cement box]outside of home for manure then taken to fields and spread. The narrow 2 lane roads made interesting travel on warm days when following one that I did many times in late fiftys. Stench compares to hog farms today, but it is part of raising animals, The tree huggers disagree so let them eat quiche instead of regular foods.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Grey Water... down a gopher hole. OK.

I would only add that it's immediate grey water down a gopher hole. Don't wait till it's had 3 days to fester in your tank. Grey water has the ability to get very rank and about as contaminated as your black tank substances when held for several days.

[dbj216]

I always have about 5 gallons of water in the black tank. I use a macerator pump to empty the black tank, and then rinse with the grey water. I don't have access, but would have no problems draining the Airstream tanks into my septic system with the macerator.

We humans are smarter than the average deer elk or bear. There is no excuse for unsanitary practices. Our waste treatment plants in our great country do a yeoman's job of keeping our water safe. Those of us who have traveled to third world countries know what I mean.

David

[MikeandCarol]

Yes, I can remember getting stuck behind honey wagons in the late 50's. Even with the windows up it was unpleasant. We lived across from a farm field in the 70's and they were still using the same aromatic fertilizer. Reminds me of driving on I-10 just past El Paso and the dairy farms.
Proper black tank dumping is common sense. Mike

[Ray Eklund]

Featherbedder recalls some European standards of living. We spent several months in Kinsbach, Germany which was close to Landsthul, Germany where the medical center was for the military and civilians family, whose fathers were working the oil patch in Saudi Arabia at the time. The Honey Wagon jams in town, on the narrow streets, was a 'nose opener' for those unfamiliar with small German town sanitary standards. These were large and long wagons with two horses to pull them to the fields... on the weekend for some reason.

Some tended to have developed leaks in their wooden 'tanks', which were maybe 20 feet long.

My life went from the jungles of the Canal Zone, Germany and the deep forests of western Montana. Many conditions were primitive compared to most people living today.

With all of the modern facilities and equipment to dispose of human solid waste and so many people frequenting the 'out doors', status quo is no longer viable. Cabins with the sink water that ran out of the sink and outside are rarely to be found today. Out door privy was our only option. Even in the Netherlands, you had privy's (latrine/out house) attached to the 18th and 19th century homes.

Boondocking Off the Grid is not for everyone. I discovered that last year in Wyoming. Everyone has to start somewhere. Many were well suited to the adventure and some were less suited...

Hunter's Camps are probably the worst for sanitary conditions and campsite upkeep. Often it seems it is a way to drink, socialize and maybe shoot at something moving through the forest. The professional camps are well maintained by the guides who reuse these sites. These are also the same sites used 'off season' by trailer and tent campers.

The Forest Service has information of Hiker's and Off the Grid disposal of human waste. Very simple and if you pick up after your dog at home... no better nor worse for human waste handling.

We return to many Off the Grid sites over the years. We improve the site ourselves from those from previous visitors. Fire pits built beneath the shelter of pine tree branches... to a 20 pound plastic bag of spoiled processed turkey left to shoot at with a 22 caliber for target practice. We remove the fire pits beneath tree shelters and the turkey, it was left rotting for coyote and mountain lions.

I do not lose sleep over the conditions some, not all... campers leave their camp sites, thinking they will never return and why care attitude. But if you own a trailer or RV... common sense should be practiced more often. Of course, people say that 'Times have Changed'.

I say... 'People have Changed'. We retreat to the back country to avoid socializing around a campfire... but to get away and relax. Enjoy our home on wheels and all the facilities within. Although my wife and I are in the minority of Airstream owners in places without a name or camp host... we all should at least practice reasonable camp site uses.

None of this is intended to incriminate anyone... but we have seen more places treated as remote 'dumps' and from reading some Threads I picked up a 'goat head' in my underpants and now feel much better finding others who do understand.

I must add MikeandCarol... down wind from a feed lot is not always a great July campsite, either.

Now, I will again... shut up and get back to constructive posts that everyone shares as interesting.

[cwf]

Human Bean...
There could be a place for a book on this topic for all RVers.. on/off boondocks.

[Ray Eklund]

Cwf has volunteered to put together the total spectrum of Boondocking and Survival with only what your Airstream and owner are capable of making life comfortable.

What is interesting in the Western USA. Ranchers coming into Urban Areas feel just as uncomfortable among congested living conditions, that Off the Grid Boondockers feel in their comfort zone in Rural Areas.

One rancher's son was in Denver for medical reasons. He left his rifles and rear window rack in the pickup. He was totally 'shocked' to find his rear window broken out and both rifles missing the next morning...

We all must adapt to varying conditions and... customs. WE are SAFER Boondocking than camped at an RV Park or the parking lot at Walmart. There may be safety in numbers, but that is just living within your... comfort zone.

Nancy and I are comfortable in any environment, but prefer being further away from a town when Boondocking. Hearing pistol or rifle shots in an Off the Grid site in Wyoming is not the same as hearing the same, in lets say, Detroit or south Chicago. An example of... different customs.

May is coming and it is time to work out our 2017 Break In trip to make sure all of our 'improvements' to our International... work. Be well and make this year one where you go out of your comfort zone with your Airstream and Family.

... and Black Water handling. Use your best judgment. Don't be the one with the rifles mounted in the rear window of your tow vehicle.

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

When my Dad was stationed in Germany from 1960 to 1964, I recall the Honey Wagon being pulled out of the lower street level of homes by horse. Never knew where it all went until my brother and I were looking in the farm fields for 'swords and daggers' from 15th Century battles. Well... no swords, but plenty of feces. That kept us out of the fields hunting for 'swords and daggers'.

Dumping your Black Water into a home Septic System or the City Sewer System could be a massive CLOG of lots of solids, and little liquids to thin the sludge. It would take more thought, before going that route. Even the Septic Companies in rural Colorado are required to handle their Septic hauling different today. I have a Septic System and would not consider Trailer Black Water.

Toilets use 1.6 gallons of water per flush. YOUR Airstream... maybe 4 ounces, at best.

Those Threads of individuals wanting to DUMP their Black Water on theirs, friends or public lands... you cannot be serious. Even into a Septic System... no wonder Boondockers Off the Grid do not want to give out locations of their 'favorite unspoiled campsites'! Myself... now included.

Take a shovel, hike away from the campsite, water, or drainage into a river or lake, dig a small pit and drop your goods. Take the toilet paper after use and toss into the trash. Toilet Paper lasts longer than you will be alive on this Planet. I see it blowing around too many campsites already.

I am sick and tired of finding toilet paper and feces under pine trees and bushes AT CAMPSITES. Trash in the fire pits. The same shallow thinking spoilers of the outdoors.

Grey Water... down a gopher hole. OK.

If you want to take a dump in your basement, on the carpet... fine. But these individuals are not welcome to be with me, my wife and our dogs... of which, we pick up after them AT the campsite. If your standards are that low, wallow like a Pig in your urine and bowel movements.

...and some Forum Members supporting this nonsense with options of how to dump your black tank at places other than a FREE Dump Station or pay a few bucks.

Call me... too old fashioned. Indians before Columbus understood more about community disposal of wastes... by moving when the smell was too much. Obviously this is now for some Airstream owners.

During that time there were still a lot of outhouses in Germany. In the US as well. They worked well enough. The main problem was they sometimes used glossy magazines for toilet paper.

[Mollysdad]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Dumping your Black Water into... the City Sewer System could be a massive CLOG of lots of solids, and little liquids to thin the sludge.

My black tank must be different than yours. Mine is mostly fluids.

Toilets use 1.6 gallons of water per flush. YOUR Airstream... maybe 4 ounces, at best.

Wha...????.

I grew up on a farm. We had animals. The animals pooped in their pens, it was shoveled into a "manure spreader" and that was taken to the fields where it got flung randomly in every direction, hopefully not on the tractor, providing fertilizer.
Crops liked it.

I fail to see how draining a black tank into a purpose made tap into the city system is any different than flushing the toilet.

[cwf]

Ray, sure... if folks send me info, I will compile best I can.. worst case they can print it and flush it... on biodegradable paper and ink of course!

Hey, gotta vote for privilege to gripe.. ��

So, dump your stories here! Perhaps the compost can be sent to Blue Beret..as a leaflet... for inclusion in "reading room" material...

All stink aside.. sure, we have the problem, now fix it.

[Ray Eklund]

Mollysdad... you obviously have not read my posts and possibly more than one Thread concerning Black Tanks and Off the Grid waste disposal. Some of the feedback is rather... interesting. I enjoy jumping into the 'Toilet Paper' discussions. Just wipe that smile off our faces, when adding some humor to such a dull soft subject.

I do not like my Airstream to be treated as a 'Honey Wagon'. That was the jest of this Thread, but I must keep my posts shorter, if possible to explain.

When we are Off the Grid... it may be in our Tent or our Airstream, but the techniques are all the same. Many Airstream owners are not into the true outdoors camping. That is understandable. Our Airstream gives us weeks before needing to restock the pantry, fresh water and... forbid a Black or Grey Tank that is over flowing. Ours rarely indicates barely more than the Black Tank fresh water added before we depart civilization. At 8 pounds per gallon... the five gallons added to the Black Tank is about perfect for a healthy puree of solids, as said earlier on this Thread by, no doubt, an expert in running a smooth operation of waste processing.

I am sure that since the sewer districts charge rates according to water usage, that adding a dump at home may not be permitted. We have a Septic System and after seven years, had the system pumped. The system was considered... like new. You do learn a few things when owning an Airstream to keep things working as designed. The local Septic Tank Pumper company use to do that. Now they must have a tanker to fill and then the full tanker takes it somewhere to be processed. Probably purchased by Top Soil sellers... after being fired dry soil pellets.

We even had taken a toilet seat, mounted onto a five gallon plastic container as a 'camping option'. A 'portable groover' similar in purpose as those used on the float trips down the Colorado River from Moab, Utah... (For those of you who have floated the Colorado River for a week or more.) Groover. Tent. Two people to load it back onto the large raft. After a couple days... no complaints.

Cut the bottom out of the five gallon container for an 'out house', OR insert a plastic bag, Or... use your imagination of all the possible disposal methods available.

Sears catalogs were very practical in western Montana in the pre Septic, Outhouse days. Not for everyone. You could also read the catalog in the process. Not great for decomposition, but very popular at one time.

When digging 'out houses' for old bottles... this is the best plant soil available! The drinkers provided the bottles and the materials for future 'explorers'. In the cities, old plats show where the out houses were located and people pay money to dig them in people's back yards. No... sh*t.

This is not a Thread for the serious worry warts and 'Save the Worms' crowd. Done in a thoughtful manner, waste is plant food. At one time in Europe, tanners of leather goods were more than happy to 'pick up after you City Folk'. Today... just be smart.

[Mollysdad]

Yes, we had an outhouse. Luckily, it was plan B.
I can't imagine running out there at night, in the snow, with the spiders and other creatures that hung around outhouses.
You did remind me of the Sears catalog, it was the high point of the month when it arrived. Lots of hours pouring over it.
Now, not only is the Sears catalog gone, but Sears is on it's last leg.