Grey Tanks, first year

[apltrez]

Now that I have sold my two completed Argosys I am considering what I want in an Airstream. My current criteria lead me to 23 ft Safaris,Globe trotters and Carvelles or similar or shorter lengths One of the considerations is an onboard grey tank. My understanding is that Grey Tanks were required from 1975 on. However I have seen where early 70's airstreams sometimes have a grey take. I am guessing there was an option for one.

Am I correct that post 75 will all have grey tanks or is it earlier?

Thank's for sharing the knowledge.

Greg

[Chuck]

74 was the first year for grey tanks (although, people keep mentioning that they existing in "some" 1973's...there is absolutely no mention of such a thing in the 1973 service manual).
Be aware, though, that these early grey tanks were very small. (no more than 10 gallons, which imo, is useless). If you want to be able to comfortably spend the weekend at a no-hookup site, you'll still probably need to retrofit...or use the ever-popular blue-boy.

[A W Warn]

My first Airstream was a 1973-30' - rear bath, center twin. It had a gray tank. Size? I do not remember!

[apltrez]

OK, '74 is the year which is good to kmow. I knew the tanks would be small but I am accustom,ed to using a tote so that really isn't an issue.

Thanks so much for the info, now the search starts.

Greg

[Inland RV Center, In]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

My first Airstream was a 1973-30' - rear bath, center twin. It had a gray tank. Size? I do not remember!

Airstream never made a 1973 30 foot Airstream.

What is your trailers serial number?

Andy

[TG Twinkie]

My '74 Argosy has a 12 gallon grey water tank. I added a 21 gallon tank under the curb side bunk. I simply pump the grey water into the 21 gallon tank when the original 12 gallon tank is full. I now have a 33 gallon grey water capacity. With no major modifications to the coach.

[Belegedhel]

As I recall, the only '73 that had a grey tank was the Excella--the other models didn't get one until later.

[apltrez]

For now, a tote and the existing tank on whatever I find will work but I like the idea of a second tank and a pump..definitely makes some send rather than major reconstruction since you can benefit from otherwise unused space.

I am currently studying a '76, 23 foot but neither the dealer that has it consigned nor the owner seem to know the grey capacity. I suppose I will err on the side of conservative and assume it is still only in the neighborhood of 10 or 12 gallons.

Thanks again for the ongoing shared knowledge.

Greg

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In

Airstream never made a 1973 30 foot Airstream.

What is your trailers serial number?

Andy

It has been more than 20 years since I saw that trailer, so I have no idea about serial #. Last time I heard about it, it was being used on a movie/filming site in Wilmington, NC. Don't know where it went from there.

I think you are correct in saying it was not a 30'. Maybe it was a 31' instead. That 1973 had both Excella and Land Yacht badges on it if I remember correctly. I've had 4 different Airstream trailers in the 30'-31' range, so I get the details of those first three trailers confused sometimes. Though, I am positive all of them had gray water tanks.

[wahoonc]

1975 was the year that grey water tanks became mandatory. From what I have seen they were optional for sure in 1974 and possibly as early as 1972/73. The small tanks appear to have been used until around 1980. The center bath had a larger tank than the rear bath. On my 1975 it is a whopping 10 gallons.

Aaron

[perryg114]

I think my 81 Excella has a 25 gallon gray tank. When I get around to doing some work on the front portion of the under belly, I will probably add another gray water tank. We can get buy for a weekend no problem and for a week if we don't shower in the trailer. The center baths had bigger tanks.

Perry

[ALUMINUMINUM]

Sounds like you're committed to the '76, but I'll add this observation...


It seems RVers deem it necessary to store turd water separately from whatever was excavated from their orifices in the shower, all the meat prep juices from the kitchen sink, gunk washed off plates and pans, the blood from washing cuts and wounds, deodorants, scabs, tooth brushing debris and saliva, sloughed off skin, rinsed out rags, mucous, insect repellant, coughed up phlegm and bile, sunscreens, spittle, snot...... I'm not a human waste scientist, but grey water seems to be not much less healthy than what comes from human evacuation orifices and deposited directly into a black tank.


In the statutes of most State and Fed Governments, it's all black. Homes, businesses, airplanes, trains, boats, generally don't make the distinction, and health-wise, that's the way it should be. The RV grey tank is an evolved vestige of long ago when grey water was dumped on the ground. RV waste management has been running under the radar and is due for change. Already, some newer trailers are going with single waste tanks. These days, you dump it all in the same sewer hole anyway.


I point to this, not to argue sewage, but only as encouragement to expand your search and also consider the truly fine lightweight trailers of the fifties and sixties. It takes only a Thetford to Valterra adapter and a Valterra 3”gate valve to change a 1968 black tank to a general waste tank. Cost is $40 and takes thirty seconds to install. If you accidentally exceed the limit of the tank, you'll know, as the bathtub fills next. No problem with full hook-ups. Most rear bath trailers this vintage have plenty of room to install boon-docking tanks if you pull the belly-pan.


TG Twinkie's above floor suggestion is viable as well.


You can always snap on a “sewer solution” or macerator and pump your honey where ever you like.




Things change...

[dbj216]

Hi Aluminum in UM. Thanks for sharing your graphic description of disgusting human existence. We're worse than pigs in a sty. I agree that one tank can suffice for waste water. My country home has one tank, and I empty both of my Airstream waste water tanks down the same hose and then rinse thoroughly.

So I made a command decision to utilize my two new waste water tanks in my 66 Trade Wind for both classifications of waste water. I can better utilize the waste water volume by having kitchen sink and shower in one tank, and toilet and bath sink in the other tank. All drains except the toilet are protected with P traps. I think I'm okay. I guess I'll label them both "dark gray" tanks.

David

[Belegedhel]

Despite grey and black water going into the same sewer, I am still a fan of keeping them in separate tanks. If I am going to have waste water back up into my shower when a tank gets full, I prefer that it not have raw sewage in it. I also like having a closed valve between the area where I wash dishes and a big tank full of raw sewage. You never know when some funky little critters are going to bring the contamination of the tank right up where you are brushing your teeth.

Additionally, if you see your grey tank is getting full, you can always put off taking a shower and doing the dishes, but you still have access to a flushing toilet as long as the black tank isn't also full. If you have a black/grey single tank, you could fill it up while taking a shower, and all of a sudden, you are standing in two inches of back/grey water.

[TG Twinkie]

Here! Here!
I don't want to mix the grey and black water in a single tank.
I don't see the problem with grey water. Even dumping it on the ground. There are millions of septic systems throughout this country which dispense the combination of grey and black water underground. Even though it is considered effluent, it is no where close to being clean water.
The soaps in the grey water break the surface tension. Making it easier to soak in. If one uses Eco friendly soaps etc.. No harm no foul.
I think the reason grey water develops and odor is that the microbes are doing their job of breaking things down. Which produces the gases that smell.
It's natures way. Like road kill along the highway. It is food for all kinds of creatures.

[wahoonc]

We have a "problem" septic system at our house (long story involving government incompetence) We have the black and grey water drain lines separated. In extremely wet weather we allow the gray to drain out into one of our fields due to the septic field "overloading". In dry weather it can drain into the septic tank. Most grey water is relatively harmless and can be drained onto the ground, sunlight helps to break it down relatively quickly. YMMV. When we have people "camping" at our place we usually put grey water into the field or if very dry into the gardens area. FWIW one of our gardens is over the septic tank field

I too prefer to keep my systems separate, I am much more likely (especially with an Airstream 10 gallon grey tank) to fill grey up long before black. If I have to use a blue boy to drain the tank I would much rather it be full of grey water than black.



Aaron

[AldeanFan]

We have a '77 Safari, it has a small grey tank and a small black tank by comparison to my parents 34' 5er.

We've camped as long as 5 days with no hookups and haven't had a problem. the trick is water management. State parks, Nascar races and Music festivals all have public showers. Dump stations are never that far away, although inconvenient to tow the trailer over just to dump. Nascar races usually have a pumper truck that will empty your tanks for a reasonable fee.

At our first time at Jamboree in the Hills we used the public showers, ate everything on paper plates and cooked most meals on the grill so we had almost no dishes to wash. I actually ran the kitchen faucet for about 30min before I dumped my tanks just to get enough grey water to flush the hose.
Last year and Jambo we did the dishes in the sink and we used the shower - navy style, and the grey tank was not near full after 4 days.

If you feel you need to take long showers every day you will run out of fresh water and hot water first!

[dbj216]

We RVers have to manage our water tanks. Toilets may be the least water usage, where showers are likely the most. The shower or tub is the lowest drain in our trailers with the toilet next. I've had water back up in my shower pan, but never in my bath or kitchen sink. I watch the levels and dump both tanks when gray is typically 3/4 full. The black is almost always less full. Sometimes I let the toilet flush for several minutes to add more water to the black tank for a good rinse.

So draining a bath sink into the black tank gave me more gray capacity and more water in my black tank without risk of sewage backing all the way up to the sink.

My 66 Trade Wind, like most 60s Airstreams, dumped gray water directly on the ground. My manual says leave the dump pipe cap on and open the black tank dump valve and you can store some gray water in the black tank. Shut the dump valve and get ready for a messy tank drain when you take the cap off. Even back then mixing black and gray water was a consideration.

I do think RVs will figure out a better way of increasing waste water storage and management in the future. A dedicated black tank really doesn't make complete sense since it is below a low water usage fixture.

But the OP wanted to know when gray tanks were required. I think we have answered that by identifying the 1975 mandate. Earlier years are hit and miss.

David

[wahoonc]

I have often wondered at who determines the size of the tanks. You really want the black tank to be relatively close to full prior to dumping to make sure everything runs out. I have an SOB where both tanks are the same size, we will fill the grey about 3-4 times as often as the black under normal use. We usually camp at the state parks here in NC/SC/VA very few of them have sewer. Most are just water and electric. There are dump stations. We do have a blue boy that we use to empty the grey tank in between if needed.

There are a multitude of ways to manage water and sewage, RV's make you think a bit.

Aaron

[Minno]

I agree on 2 tanks. We don't chemical our grey tank, just the black. If we had a bigger tank for all, it would take more chemicals to keep it odor free. That stuff costs enough as it is, I don't want to buy more. I, too, don't want sewer in the shower.

Kay