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Chuck · 08-30-2010, 12:26 PM

Wondering how all these components are secured together. Looks like the dump valve is simply screwed to the tank outlet...but what about the rest? is the "collector" glued into the valve? pretty sure that the gray water lines are also glued, so those aren't coming out.

The actual problem is that one of the lugs on the outlet to which the slinky connects has broken off. Its still useable...but if another one breaks off, I could be "stuck" with a tank full of badness.

looks like its pvc-glued onto the collector, so that means that to "really" fix, I'd have to replace the whole assembly, cut the gray lines and re-connect w/ those rubber compression joints. correct?
so how is the collector connected to the dump valve? is that screwed, or glued? if glued, I imagine the dump valve, itself, will also need replacing...and would a valterra valve screw pattern match the thetford that's there?

Jammer · 08-30-2010, 08:55 PM

I suspect that everything is cemented except the tank coupling.

If you were to repair it, parts availability would be a problem. That solved, you could either use the rubber "Mission" couplings you mention or cement it using slip couplings.

If it were my trailer I'd cement in a new lug made by filing a scrap piece of PVC.

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 09:01 AM

cement a lug...from what? a new lugged fitting, cannibalized? That doesn't seem workable, to me.

I think parts are available for these dump valves...but I question whether it is possible to actually "get at" this one, as it is positioned. Surely, the whole assembly will droop down when its unscrewed from the tank...but how much, really?
I guess I'm questioning if it is the SOP to simply cut the gray lines, and drop the whole thing, whenever any such maintenance is required? re-attach w/ the slip or compression couplings.

anyone know if the bolt pattern on the thetford valves matches that of the valterra?

Jammer · 08-31-2010, 09:24 AM

Just take a piece of 3" pipe and a coping saw and make something shaped more or less like a lug, clean, prime, cement in place using a clamp or rubber band, and file as necessary for fit once the cement is completely dry.

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 10:51 AM

"more or less like a lug" ain't gonna work, here. These things have to fit more precisely than that.

you know, it looks like a thetford slinky adapter should fit a valterra outlet...the lugs are just "bumps", at 90-degree increments around the pipe...but it doesn't. Its gotta be "just so".

After looking at pics of the valves on the VTS site, it looks like this valve is has an o-ring outlet...and the flaring out/flange-like shape at the top of the collector is meant to mate to that, is built-in to the collector, and is not a separate glued-on part. which means the only thing that'll fit this valve is another collector exactly like this one...and I've seen Andy at Inland RV state that these collectors are no longer available.

So it looks to me that in order to properly replace the lugs on this is to replace the whole kit-n-kaboodle, valve and all.
I imagine its possible to glue up something from standard pvc...glue-on a thetford bayonet ring (still available), and couple that to another type of thetford valve that has a 3" straight outlet. But it might hang down a little lower.
{sigh}

Valterra makes a similarly configured collector, but it probably only mates to a valterra valve, and I'm not sure that a vatlerra valve will bolt to the tank adapter.

kennethowens · 08-31-2010, 11:20 AM

side discharge
90 degrees out of tank
2 cutoff valves
redo it, strap it up tight and life can go on

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennethowens

side discharge
90 degrees out of tank
2 cutoff valves
redo it, strap it up tight and life can go on

if life were only that simple....

Its a floor mounted tank. a box, with a hole in the bottom.

Now, I could just rip out the entire bathroom, remove the existing tank, put in a sub-floor mounted tank, drill holes in the floor and frame to completely re-run plumbing for the entire trailer, including a gray tank (absent from this vintage), add frame extensions to box it all in...THEN proceed w/ your simple instructions.

and I would...except for 2 missing prerequisites...those being "dollars", and "cents".

modarch · 08-31-2010, 12:27 PM

I have one of these collectors on my '67 Caravel. Mine is the same as yours, except I have grey water entering only one one side where yours looks to have two.

My collector also had the Valterra (or Thedford) with the lugs broken off. I found this link and did the same thing this guy did- worked like a champ.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...fix-50202.html

It will work for you too.

You can buy new collectors- InlandRV makes new ones, but they are $$.

The valve screws to the bottom of the black tank, and then the collector screws to the valve. The only thing cemented is the grey water lines feeding the collector.

Hope this helps...

kennethowens · 08-31-2010, 12:31 PM

did not mean all that....

a 90 coming out of the tank....sched 40 and a few fittings...and new Thetford
dump valve or two.........we aint talking big bucks here.........besides - from the pic
you have it opened up for repair

arodriguez60 · 08-31-2010, 12:41 PM

Would this double connector work?Double Collector 89-8297 [T1013] - $11.95 : Out-of-Doors Mart!, More Airstream Parts on-line than anyone!

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modarch

I have one of these collectors on my '67 Caravel. Mine is the same as yours, except I have grey water entering only one one side where yours looks to have two.

My collector also had the Valterra (or Thedford) with the lugs broken off. I found this link and did the same thing this guy did- worked like a champ.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f444...fix-50202.html

It will work for you too.

You can buy new collectors- InlandRV makes new ones, but they are $$.

The valve screws to the bottom of the black tank, and then the collector screws to the valve. The only thing cemented is the grey water lines feeding the collector.

Hope this helps...

yes, that does help. thats the exact situation.
not sure how confident I am in using "that stuff they use on windshields" for glue, though. But perhaps there's a way to get another piece of abs plastic pipe to mate, that can be glued w/ abs cement. (which, I'm nearly certain will work to secure 2 pieces of abs

).

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennethowens

did not mean all that....

a 90 coming out of the tank....sched 40 and a few fittings...and new Thetford
dump valve or two.........we aint talking big bucks here.........besides - from the pic
you have it opened up for repair

how would you connect a "90 coming out of the tank" to the existing flange, which is meant to accept the particular valve in the pic? and even if you can do that...a 90 would convert the vertical drain to a horizontal one...within the confines of the frame cavity. You could run a pipe from there over to the main frame rail...then what? cut a hole in the frame? doesn't sound easy...or prudent to cut a 3" hole in a 5" structural member.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arodriguez60

Would this double connector work?Double Collector 89-8297 [T1013] - $11.95 : Out-of-Doors Mart!, More Airstream Parts on-line than anyone!

Thats the right idea...but I don't think that'll mate to my valve. looks like an instance of "male-to-male", rather than "male-to-female". So you'd have to replace the valve...and as I said before, I don't know if a different valve would mate to the tank flange.

Jammer · 08-31-2010, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck

"more or less like a lug" ain't gonna work, here. These things have to fit more precisely than that.

You may have missed the key piece: "file as necessary to fit."

Some of the dimensions are critical. Some are not. PVC is easy to shape with a file. If you can't get it to work you can always try something more drastic.

kennethowens · 08-31-2010, 02:12 PM

not too difficult

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennethowens

not too difficult

well, you can draw pipes any which-way, but getting them to actually mate to what is actually present is...difficult. or expensive. or both.

scottwtalley · 08-31-2010, 07:20 PM

Hi Chuck,
I am just through replacing the black water tank in my 1969 Caravel. The collector on mine was simply screwed on the valve with 4 screws. The valve assembly is threaded and was screwed to the tank. I didn't realize the collector was going to be difficult to replace (I'm new to Airstreams) and damaged (cut the 2" greywater female fitting off with a sawzall) mine taking it off. Inland RV has a replacement collector "on sale" for $89.00. That being said, some of the above suggestions look pretty appealing.
On the Out-of-doors mart website linked to above is a bayonet ring 89-8273 for $7.95 that connects to 3.5" outside diameter black plastic drain line. Maybe you could remove the flanges and make the bayonet ring attach to the outside diameter of the coupler without the lugs.
Anyway,my advise to myself is to pay more attention to what it will cost to fix something and what's available before I go too crazy with the power tools. good luck with the repair.
Scott

Chuck · 08-31-2010, 07:48 PM

yeah, I saw the $89 replacement collector, which appears to be $15 worth of standard fittings glued together, including that $8 bayonet ring. AND it would require another $50 valve, from what I can see.

Quote:

Maybe you could remove the flanges and make the bayonet ring attach to the outside diameter of the coupler without the lugs.

not quite sure what you mean, here. remove what flanges? The only way to remove the existing lugs would be to cut it off w/ a hack saw...and there doesn't appear to be enough pipe above that level to attach the bayonet ring to.

Beaker63 · 08-31-2010, 08:03 PM

Chuck,
Vintage Airstream Home - Restortaion Resources has directions for making an adapter plate to convert the thetford valves to Valterra . The bolt patterns are not the same so a plate is needed. I replaced mine and it works great!
Tim

scottwtalley · 09-01-2010, 11:41 AM

I meant that if you remove the lugs, by cutting them off individually then filing / sanding them smooth, you are left with a pipe with outside dimensions just under 3.5". then you could possibly attach the bayonet ring to that.

Chuck · 09-01-2010, 11:49 AM

Yes, I saw the article on Vintageairstream; thanks for the tip!

That might work, too, although, it is about the brass valves/glassed in tank adapters; mine is plastic...but I don't know that it matters.

another thought: I was assuming that this tank adapter is glued (solvent welded) to the tank. (i.e. un-removable). I see that they have a version that threads on, as well. The glue-on type says "...for gluing to abs tanks"...threaded version says, "...for threading onto threaded fitting on polyethylene tanks".
I think this tank is polyethylene. don't know for sure. can't really tell from my pics if this is a thread-on, or glue-on. If its threaded, I could just un-screw it, and screw on an adapter that mates to valterra.
I checked the service manual, and it shows the adapter in the assembly, but it doesn't specify which type it is.

I wonder if one could e-mail the mothership, and ask?

Chuck · 09-01-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottwtalley

I meant that if you remove the lugs, by cutting them off individually then filing / sanding them smooth, you are left with a pipe with outside dimensions just under 3.5". then you could possibly attach the bayonet ring to that.

missed this before...but yeah, I was thinking that, too. the descriptions for the bayonet ring say "3" OD". It looks almost like the existing lugs are part of a glued-on ring....can't see in the pic, because the cap is covering it up. I'll have to go look again.
anyway, I wonder how difficult it would be to grind it down? would you use a hand-file, or a dremel, or what?