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Duff23 · 06-30-2008, 09:17 PM

Hi all. I'm considering the purchase of a 1981 Argosy 22' (long distance, sight unseen (except for pictures) type of purchase) but the current owners say that there is no black water tank. Could this be?

I really like the trailer and its small size but don't think I can accept this deficiency. Is it possible for me to install the black water system myself? Is it an enormous task or reasonable enough for a handy man? Any advice would be appreciated. Duff

flitzwhopper · 06-30-2008, 09:27 PM

Duff,
My '76 24' has a black water and grey water tank. Seems unlikely that a later model wouldn't have one. The tanks are a bit small Grey=14 gal and the Black at about 10. Still the black water lasts four to five days when dry camping but the grey water only lasts a day. We're not very good at being careful with water utilization. The tote along 22 gallon solves the problem.

myboyburt · 06-30-2008, 09:32 PM

Hmmmm,

Our 1977 Argosy Minuet 6.0 Metre has a black water tank - 10 or 12 gallons as I recall. I would bet the "newer" model you are interested in would have at least the same.

CanoeStream · 06-30-2008, 09:38 PM

Any photographs should suggest what is going on. Argosy black water tanks are all above the floor. If there's a shorty commode sitting on top of about 10" of enclosed cabinetry, I'd think that may be near original; ie, the black water tank is in the cabinetry above the floor.

Shacksman · 06-30-2008, 09:45 PM

Argosys were only made from 1972 - 1979 then again 88-89 period. There were no 1981 Argosys. Maybe you are looking at another brand.

Darol Ingalls · 07-01-2008, 12:11 AM

Shacksman's right. There were no '81 Argosys. and the newer ones were all larger and square. I suspect your seller doesn't know what he has. Ask for photos of the bath and check to see if the toilet sits above the floor level as suggested in a prior response. Also, ask for the information of the mfg's plate. It should have the serial number and date of mfg. All Argosys made from '72 and on had black water tanks and all made from '74 and on had black and grey water tanks. Yes, they were small, but at least they were there. I think you need better information before making the trip. You should also be aware that the 22' Argosy REAR DOOR models had some major towing issues due to the placement of the axels so near the center of balance of the trailer. Darol

Duff23 · 07-01-2008, 08:33 AM

Here's a picture of the streetside. If it were plumbed with a BW tank, wouldn't we clearly see some plumbing just forward of the rear bumper in this photo? The owner's say they were told by the PO's that it came from the factory without a BW tank. I just find it odd that someone would custom order a coach w/o one.

Pfredd · 07-01-2008, 08:46 AM

The plumbing connection for my '78 Minuet 6.7 Meter is actually underneath the trailer, behind the rear wheel. You do not normally see any of the plumbing for it. The valve pulls are located in the bumper compartment. Both tanks are above floor level, and the shower dumps directly into the drain line, bypassing the grey tank.

Maybe that is what this one has.

My '77 Argosy 24 has the dump connection in the side of the bumper compartment. The black tank valve pull is in the bumper compartment. The gray tank valve pull is on the side near the bumper. The black tank is above the floor, the gray below with the shower draining into the gray tank.

Dave

3Ms75Argosy · 07-01-2008, 09:05 AM

Hard to say from this pic, but I THINK I see the waste plumbing connector just forward of the bumper.

I was about to say how cherry it looked... then I looked again. The side panel by the water heater is one big patch... see the non-standard (and looks like it has a gap too) seam just aft the waterheater door? Paint match is just a tad off too.... I think those brown stripes (which is not orginal.. but looks ok) are painted to camo the patch.

The whole trailer looks to have been painted prior to the patch... notice the window frames and upper light bezels are in raw aluminum... that's not stock. A body paint isn't so bad (the Argosy paint was known to flake off)... but that patch and the bungled lower trim infront and just of the rear of the waterheater seems to indicate something happened in that location. Overall, it looks nice from this angle though...

Any other pics?
Has a newer AC unit on top, judging by the rear lights.. I'd say a 78.
Interior pics would really let us know what's happening in the bathroom.
Marc

Duff23 · 07-01-2008, 09:50 AM

Wow! I'm so glad you noticed that. I saw the discoloration and odd looking panel but don't have the experience to know with certainty that it wasn't stock. I still don't understand what you're saying about the upper light bezels though.

Here are some more pix. Looks like there's also a little patchwork under the left tail light too. Toilet is up on the step but those are just standard provisions right?...there's no guarantee that there's a tank under there. The current owners reupholstered the interior.

Aside from the questionable exterior panel it looks clean. They're listing it as a 1981 model, but Shacksman is already discounting that. If their title says 1981, what else could it be? Any ideas?

Thanks, Duff

Pfredd · 07-01-2008, 10:25 AM

Is there a serial number tag on the front of it? If so, what is the info on it?

utee94 · 07-01-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duff23

Wow! I'm so glad you noticed that. I saw the discoloration and odd looking panel but don't have the experience to know with certainty that it wasn't stock. I still don't understand what you're saying about the upper light bezels though.

Here are some more pix. Looks like there's also a little patchwork under the left tail light too. Toilet is up on the step but those are just standard provisions right?...there's no guarantee that there's a tank under there. The current owners reupholstered the interior.

Aside from the questionable exterior panel it looks clean. They're listing it as a 1981 model, but Shacksman is already discounting that. If their title says 1981, what else could it be? Any ideas?

Thanks, Duff

Duff, from the one photo down the length of the trailer aisle and looking aft into the bathroom, do you see how the toilet is sitting up on a "step" or "riser?" That is what it looks like when the black tank is above floor level. I haven't been in the trailer so I obviously can't guarantee there is a black tank, but from that picture, this trailer appears to have one.

overlander63 · 07-01-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by utee94

Duff, from the one photo down the length of the trailer aisle and looking aft into the bathroom, do you see how the toilet is sitting up on a "step" or "riser?" That is what it looks like when the black tank is above floor level. I haven't been in the trailer so I obviously can't guarantee there is a black tank, but from that picture, this trailer appears to have one.

That small cabinet under the toilet is where our black tank was located in our Argosy. Dump valve is in the bumper compartment, and the slinky hookup is centered under the valve, facing directly down. You would not normally see the hookup. Also, from the taillight and binnacle configuration, the trailer is at best a 1974 model.

Darol Ingalls · 07-01-2008, 01:01 PM

Duff, Well, since this is not a rear door model, it will tow beautifully. The patch on the roadside is bothersome. Could it be that there was a major accident in the late 70's/early 80's, insurance totaled it, repairs made and a salvage title issued in '81? Can't make out the state on the license plates and rules about titles change from state to state, but it's something you should check. Interior looks good! You should be able to see the black tank by opening the closet door next to the toilet and looking back under the toilet shelf. Also, the slide valve is in the bumper compartment. The grey tank slide valve is just in front of the bumper on the roadside. Both tanks drain through the same exit which is just inside the curve of the rear bumper on the road side. The trailer has definately been repainted because the trim is not original to any year of Argosy. Darol

Duff23 · 07-01-2008, 01:26 PM

The knowledge base on this forum is truly amazing.

The registration is currently Alabama....too far for me to go look at personally. I have the VIN # written down at home, I'll post it later tonight to see if anyone can make heads or tails of it. Interesting point on a possible salvage title.

Thanks for all the input.

Poprivet · 07-01-2008, 01:43 PM

It has a toilet and by definition, it has a black water tank. Thats what black water is - sewage. It might not have a gray water tank and the gray water goes into the black water tank. If it has two dump valves, it most likly has two tanks.

The is a list of folks someplace in this forum of people that are willing to go inspect the unit for you if they live near by

overlander63 · 07-01-2008, 04:04 PM

I'm home from work now, and can study the pictures more carefully. The "patch" near the tail light is for the abs plastic binnacle, and has nothing to do with the trailer itself. You could remove the binnacle completely, and remount the tail lights directly on the trailer, and the only difference would be the part covered by it would be raw aluminum (no paint).
I'm also looking at other indicators, and provided nothing has been surgically altered, it is probably a 1972 model. 1973's had reflectors mounted on the sides of the banana wrap front and rear, which this one does not have.
It does, however, have a replacement Winegard Batwing tv antenna, a replacement Coleman air conditioner, Airstream hubcaps, and what look like BAL stabilizers front and rear. It also appears the axles are well on their way out, based on how far into the wheel wells the tire sidewalls are. It also has a Zip-Dee awning, which is a plus.

kenny2 · 07-01-2008, 06:44 PM

I own a 1972 20' Argosy. The interior of your trailer (cabinet door design, floor plan, colors) is close to identical. The 1972 Argosy has no grey water tank. I would guess that this is an early '70's model that came from the factory sans grey water tank.

kenny2 · 07-01-2008, 06:46 PM

FWIW, even with the patch, I would buy it. Ours tow like a dream.

**azflycaster** · 07-01-2008, 07:09 PM

A few other issues from the pictures.

The water heater door seems to be hanging from the upper latch. It is sitting too low for the hinges to be in place.

The door lock is missing the tumblers and maybe the opening handle as well. The door does not seem to be shut all the way.

The propane bottles are not secure. It looks like they are a few inches shorter then the originals. This would be the case if aluminum tanks were swapped with steel ones.

The bathroom window is missing the right latch to lock it in place.

None of these items would be deal breakers to me, but would be items to negotiate the price with.