Black Water Tank help on 1968 Tradewind

[Venturewest]

I am at a critical stage in deciding what to do with my black water tank. I have removed the floor above (to replace rear end rot) and I have removed the belly pan. I like what I see so far. I don't see any cracks in the tank and even the enclosure can be repaired.

I plan to repair the galvanized box with galvanized angle. I plan to bolt a new piece of steel angle to support the enclosure. The old angle had rusted away. I will also add a new piece of angle under the c channel that supports the rear floor. The old rusty c channel is pretty flexy.

What I am I missing? What should I be testing? Does the plastic toilet flange in the photo just unthread? Could I keep the flange and just add some sort of ring around it?

I see repair parts for the Thetford valve. Is it reasonable to trust that it will be okay if I repair it?

I am ready to start putting this back together, but I realize this may be my best opportunity to address certain things.

Thanks!

[Venturewest]

Hopefully this mini thread will help someone out. I overcame my denseness and figured out I could lift the black tank out! I have no idea why I didn't think of that initially. The black tank looked great everywhere. The enclosure foam looks great. I think it would be a shame to now reuse it in that condition. I filled the tank with bleach water and tested it. Nothing leaked. The valve works great for now.

I still need to figure out the toilet flange fitting. I don't want to try to turn it if it isn't a threaded fitting.

Is this my only good chance to replace the valve? Is it necessary or should I stick with the original?

[ALUMINUMINUM]

The flange unscrews CC..

This thread might answer some questions...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...re-159949.html

[dbj216]

The dog gone toilet floor flange can be a problem maker. Sometimes the big pipe threads don't want to release and the plastic cracks. Maybe penetrating oil will help get it loose. Proceed with caution as to not crack the plastic tank.

A new blade type valve is pretty inexpensive. Maybe yours is inserted into the molded boss and then hose clamped tight. Loosen the hose clamp and try to twist out the valve. My old gray tank was cracked in the boss area. Maybe someone tried to pry it out once.

I wonder if your black tank is molded, or a thermo formed lower half with a lid plastic welded to the top of it. This is the way my 66 tank was made.

David

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by dbj216

The dog gone toilet floor flange can be a problem maker. Sometimes the big pipe threads don't want to release and the plastic cracks. Maybe penetrating oil will help get it loose. Proceed with caution as to not crack the plastic tank.

A new blade type valve is pretty inexpensive. Maybe yours is inserted into the molded boss and then hose clamped tight. Loosen the hose clamp and try to twist out the valve. My old gray tank was cracked in the boss area. Maybe someone tried to pry it out once.

I wonder if your black tank is molded, or a thermo formed lower half with a lid plastic welded to the top of it. This is the way my 66 tank was made.

David

Thanks David,
I would say my tank is the the thermo formed ABS sheet with the lid welded on. It sounds like this is the time to give that toilet flange a shot and clean those threads out.
Ron

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by ALUMINUMINUM

The flange unscrews CC..

This thread might answer some questions...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f48/...re-159949.html

That is a great thread! Thanks for sharing that. Before I start threads or ask questions, I spend a lot of time searching the site. I never ran across this thread but it answers a lot of questions.

That is pretty amazing that the Thetford fitting can be modified to fit the Valterra. I am definitely going to do that. I am still toying with the idea of adding the gray tank. The bay closest to the black tank is narrow on this model. I would have to go on bay forward to fit the gray from VTS. That would be the bay directly behind the rear axle. It would probably be better for weight distribution anyways. I feel like I could add the gray tank for a few hours labor and $200 bucks plus shipping and fittings....hmmm.

Do you think it is possible to make the fitting to tank repair with the tank in if it ever fails? It seems like I could cut some of galvanized metal out of the way if I needed more room. My fittings all have some serious white gunk smeared around them. It had to be factory as even the vent has it.

2 Questions: Do you I can rely on my existing Thetford valve which seems fully functional at this point? Why did you go back to a Theford valve instead of Valterra? Was it so that it would be compatible with the original PVC fitting with the gray inlet?

Could I just reuse my toilet flange and use something like this? https://www.amazon.com/CLOSET-FLANGE.../dp/B000ZOK6X2
It looks like they used the same gunk around the toilet flange. I am afraid it is actually ABS plastic. It is white and feels like plastic. It is also around the lid-to-tank seam.

I have done some pretty extensive ABS repair using MEK with ABS pellets melted in it, and reinforced with fiberglass mesh tape. I even ordered white and tan pellets off ebay and did a repair to my tan shower surround in our last trailer.

Thanks again!

[JRF0st3r]

I found that filling the BW tank with warm water solved the problem of removing the toilet flange.
The correct repair parts for our Thetford valve were not easy to find but on eBay a guy from Pfugerville, TX, Les McKay, had apparently bought the last of the supply and it was exactly what was needed. Puzzlemasters 1 was listed as seller for Thetford Slide-EZ 03827 Valve Repair Package. Cost was $40 + shipping.

Details of our renovation can be seen under the Trailers '67-'68 Safari forum as "Jim+Jane's '67 Safari".
Jim

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by JRF0st3r

I found that filling the BW tank with warm water solved the problem of removing the toilet flange.
The correct repair parts for our Thetford valve were not easy to find but on eBay a guy from Pfugerville, TX, Les McKay, had apparently bought the last of the supply and it was exactly what was needed. Puzzlemasters 1 was listed as seller for Thetford Slide-EZ 03827 Valve Repair Package. Cost was $40 + shipping.

Details of our renovation can be seen under the Trailers '67-'68 Safari forum as "Jim+Jane's '67 Safari".
Jim

Thanks Jim,

I will try heating the area around the flange up a little, with water or a hair dryer. I am sure I don't want to get it too hot. I see that vintage trailer supply has several vintage Thetford valve repair kits. I haven't researched compatibility. I will check out your restoration thread as well.
Ron

[dbj216]

Me and Thetford valves don't get along. I don't like the oddball sizes and the goofy seal design if you can find replacement seals. I'm a Valterra blade valve fan. The first valves I changed were on the 86 Limited some years ago. One of the valves was leaking. I put two new Valterra valves in their stead and also a Valterra sewer hose bayonet connector. Headaches be gone. Note: I mistakenly plumbed the drain manifold in PVC for no good reason.

Jim's Safari thread is also very good. Stay up all night reading it. There might be a pop quiz tomorrow on it.

David

[ALUMINUMINUM]

2 Questions:


Do you I can rely on my existing Thetford valve which seems fully functional at this point?


It's fifty years old and difficult to replace on the road, so a new one makes sense while the tank's out. The old ones are rebuildable and have a stainless steel back. Replacement valve is all plastic. I chose to replace rather than rebuild the valve.


Why did you go back to a Theford valve instead of Valterra? Was it so that it would be compatible with the original PVC fitting with the gray inlet?


Yes, the Thetford hub was in good condition, sized correctly to the original configuration, easily modified to Valterra, had flanges that I could bracket to tank for reinforcement, and I already had it. If a 1½” grey pipe and gate valve was added, things would change.


I snipped a little larger hole in the galvanized tank box that would allow future valve replacement without dropping tank.


I think a family sized trailer, in these modern times, needs some grey tank.

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by ALUMINUMINUM

2 Questions:


Do you I can rely on my existing Thetford valve which seems fully functional at this point?


It's fifty years old and difficult to replace on the road, so a new one makes sense while the tank's out. The old ones are rebuildable and have a stainless steel back. Replacement valve is all plastic. I chose to replace rather than rebuild the valve.


Why did you go back to a Theford valve instead of Valterra? Was it so that it would be compatible with the original PVC fitting with the gray inlet?


Yes, the Thetford hub was in good condition, sized correctly to the original configuration, easily modified to Valterra, had flanges that I could bracket to tank for reinforcement, and I already had it. If a 1½” grey pipe and gate valve was added, things would change.


I snipped a little larger hole in the galvanized tank box that would allow future valve replacement without dropping tank.


I think a family sized trailer, in these modern times, needs some grey tank.

Thanks for that post. That rear trunk is definitely a show piece.
Your floor splice photos really help. Just looking at the pics, it seems that splice would be over your black tank? Maybe it is just outside your frame rail?

Is your last photo of the same trailer with your new valve? Did you add a gray tank?

Thanks.

[JRF0st3r]

Originally Posted by Venturewest

Thanks Jim,

I will try heating the area around the flange up a little, with water or a hair dryer. I am sure I don't want to get it too hot. I see that vintage trailer supply has several vintage Thetford valve repair kits. I haven't researched compatibility. I will check out your restoration thread as well.
Ron

Ron, I first tried heating with a hair dryer but it did not work. Finally I filled the tank full with 120˚ hot water and the flange was easily removed.

I wasted some time & $ trying out the repair parts from VTS. They are great folks as far as accepting returns but shipping costs and time spent can be a problem. VTS does sell an adapter for going to a Valtera drain hose. Had to glue it in place to stop it from leaking. Although I did not try changing out the Thetford to Valtera, that sounds like a wise approach.
Jim

[ALUMINUMINUM]

There were more dry-fits and measurements than most sane people would endure, but in the end, it all came together beautifully.

I studied the possibility of the grey tank, deemed it simple enough to do later. I was really tired of day after day pain, being “on-your-back” in a gravel driveway, so I buttoned it up....

Fifty years of ultra-lite no-trace backpacking embedded a high level of water conservation. Once in Japan, the house host offered me a 2qt saucepan of water in which to bathe, I accepted it graciously, no problem… The GT is a small camper, 20 gal of wastewater capacity isn't bad… Same capacity as the newer single tank AS Sport/Bambi

Endless hot showers has never been on my list of camping interests... I like the 6 gal dual fuel Atwood. It heats up and recovers quickly, and I usually use the stove-top water kettle to supply a little hot dishwash water in two minutes. Water management is a lifestyle.

There's much chatter about bumper boxes, and to each his own… Mine houses sewage accessories only, it troughs away the rainwater that would otherwise rot your floor, and doesn't invite road dust....

What might look like grey tank discharge at the left in that last image is my Sewer Solution discharge port. Just to let you in on the level of undisclosed stupidity that occurs around here, I may have weaponized a SS. My entire “Tricked-Out” SS has been bored and stroked, ported and polished, milled, decked and clearanced, then balanced and blueprinted. Does it squirt a few drops faster than “stock”? Honestly, it blasts a firehose, I also carry the Slinky.

The sub-floor wood is alkyd enamled 5 ply 5/8” exterior SPF plywood, cleated with 1/2” 11ply birch, then clothed in fiberglass, smoothed with Bondo, and covered with glue-down Pirelli coin rubber..

.

[rmkrum]

Looks like your sewer solution system has a different hose material and sewer line plug than mine (circa 2013 or so). Mine looks like largish smooth garden hose, not corrugated flex hose. The other end is step threaded for several diameters, yours is a tapered plug. Other details are different. Is yours a more recent one?

It looks like yours might be larger inside diameter and able to flow faster. Mine tends to slow down on the 'big chunks' and wads of toilet paper occasionally. (no politer way to put that...)

Mine has the older aluminum adapter into the garden hose material, and has a 1" PVC elbow at the discharge end. It can be extended with ordinary 1" PVC pipe and fittings...

Maybe a port and polish is a good idea...

[ALUMINUMINUM]

The hose is corrugated on outside, but smooth on the inside. It's an honest 1" ID. I might recall it brand-named "smoothe-bore". It's rated for outdoor pond pumps, somewhat flexible, very lightweight, and probably not as durable as the genuine SS hose.

The discharge end is glued-up PVC, painted with Krylon Fusion, collared with common RV donut gasket..

I read where SS folks sometimes couple many 10' lengths of 1" PVC to up-hill their sewage. This irrigation hose can be reasonably coiled, it's relatively cheap, and available in near endless lengths.

Landscape/irrigation supply...

[dbj216]

Well, the subject of this thread is black tanks, right?

I have the Thetford Tank Buddy macerator pump as I sometimes find campground sewer connection pipes higher than my "low slung" Airstream. This Tank Buddy is a garbage disposal for black tanks. It will pump water maybe 5' into the air. I have to make sure my connection to the campground sewer pipe is secure otherwise it might blow off and I'd spray black water all over the neighbor's picnic table. It has one of those expanding 1" hoses that is compact yet handles the flow rate nicely.

Maybe we should have a contest at the next Airstream rally. Who's black water pump sprays the farthest. Your hopped up sewer solution would likely win.

David

[Gonzo59]

Great, Informative thread!

[tracker]

Thanks to you venturewest. Iam about to tackle the same job on my 69 safari. I need to rebuild the angle iron frame that the tank sets on and who knows what else I will find on the way. Is there any other advice you have to offer? I don't know yet if the tank leaks or if I will replace it and the valve just because of age. I saw what looked like a black water tank probe in one of your photos. did the 1968 models have a level probe? I wonder If my69 has one somewhere? Thanks again.

[Venturewest]

Originally Posted by tracker

Thanks to you venturewest. Iam about to tackle the same job on my 69 safari. I need to rebuild the angle iron frame that the tank sets on and who knows what else I will find on the way. Is there any other advice you have to offer? I don't know yet if the tank leaks or if I will replace it and the valve just because of age. I saw what looked like a black water tank probe in one of your photos. did the 1968 models have a level probe? I wonder If my69 has one somewhere? Thanks again.

Hi Tracker,
I am glad I was able to inspire you! I have been inspired many times by others on Airforums. Maybe it's fitting that my first inspiration has to do with the black water tank! I would just say to make sure you test it well once it's out, to make sure it doesn't leak.

I assume you are also taking this time to reinforce the frame where the rear sub-floor and shell rests on it? I used a 2" x 2" piece of angle iron in place of the rusty piece.

I do have the level probe on mine. It is still sitting in a jar of disinfectant. I don't know what style level sensor you have on your model. On mine you can see the probe and the wires when you open the back service door.

I would just say to dive in and then ask questions as you run into problems. You can also read the good advice that others gave in my thread as I tackled my tank.

Good luck!

[tracker]

Originally Posted by Venturewest

Hi Tracker,
I am glad I was able to inspire you! I have been inspired many times by others on Airforums. Maybe it's fitting that my first inspiration has to do with the black water tank! I would just say to make sure you test it well once it's out, to make sure it doesn't leak.

I assume you are also taking this time to reinforce the frame where the rear sub-floor and shell rests on it? I used a 2" x 2" piece of angle iron in place of the rusty piece.

I do have the level probe on mine. It is still sitting in a jar of disinfectant. I don't know what style level sensor you have on your model. On mine you can see the probe and the wires when you open the back service door.

I would just say to dive in and then ask questions as you run into problems. You can also read the good advice that others gave in my thread as I tackled my tank.

Good luck!

Thanks again Venturewest. I am still in the information stage of this project but I know if it's going to get done I will have to be the one to do it. And I need to start before the rains start. I was wondering if you had to remove the belly skin order to make your repairs or to remove the black water tank. Or if you might have any other hints. Thanks.