Black tank removal - in deep need some advice

[gomotomoto]

Here's a link to the pics of my recent project. I decided it was time to update the bathroom, original black tank and valve and add some grey water capacity to our 1964 Ambassador.

Stage 1 demo is done and I have the original black tank removed and the floor up in that area. I'm hoping a some folks with experience can lend some guidance and share some ideas. I mostly camp with my family and we don't do alot of boondocking (haven't yet actually).

Of course, I could just replace the black tank and call it a day, but I also would like to hear thoughts on adding some grey water.

Obviously, we have to re-do the shower/toilet/vanity - but need to sort out the black/grey tanks first.

If anyone can chime in here with some ideas, that would be appreciated

I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment. haha!
Here's the link to the pics:


https://www.dropbox.com/sh/disz9yb31...Ja9fbCkha?dl=0

[A W Warn]

My 25' Safari has the black tank above the floor, directly beneath the toilet. The toilet is a short model that sets on a box which hides the black tank.
Perhaps you might work out some similar situation, converting your black tank into the gray tank.

We (2 of us) can go a week or more without dumping the black. But 3 days, 39 gallons, is as long as we can go on the gray if we use the shower sparingly. We use a blue tank for gray water transport when we have no hookups where draining on the ground is not allowed.

[dbj216]

The 64 Ambassador is a nice old trailer. Now you need to upgrade the thing to modern specs. I assume it is a rear bath model.

I had a 66 Trade Wind. The rear bath was shot. So out it came and we started over with it. I wanted both increased black and gray water capacity. I decided to rebuild the rear bath with a new toilet, new vanity and sink, and a small shower stall.

Here is a photo of the new holding tanks installed. By the way, I used the SeeLevel system for water level indicators and they work well. I elected to drain the tanks on the side similar to modern Airstreams. (If you squint, you can see the drain valves on our 86 Limited in the background, right behind the rear axle.

And here is a photo of the completed bath. Not fancy, but functional.

It is a big project. Took me most of the winter working on it part time.

David

[gomotomoto]

Hmmmm. That gives me a great idea:



So I could do a black tank that sits on top of the floor with a short toilet and two small grey tanks under the floor?



That just might work!



Thoughts?

[Lumatic]

Hmmm, That will add a few hundred pounds to the rear end when full which might affect towing and place some stress on the frame.

[FL Crackers]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Hmmm, That will add a few hundred pounds to the rear end when full which might affect towing and place some stress on the frame.

I would tend to agree; however, it would probably be rare traveling with a full black water tank. Most of us would probably dump before hitting the road.

I would just caution you (gomotomoto) on removing the bathroom and black water tank. We did just that on our first AS - a 1977 Tradewind. Although it gave us a whole lot of space for a big queen size bed, it did limit the market when it came time to sell. I believe that there will always be someone who will like your unit enough to buy down the road, it just takes time finding them.

There have been posts on joining the black and grey tanks to increase the overall storage capacity. You might consider that - leaving the potential to add the bath back in later.

[dbj216]

The 69 Globetrotter had an above floor black tank. I ended up replacing this tank with a new one as the drain valve had broken off.

I had all kinds of heartburn over the bottom drain port on this tank. Maybe there are other above floor black tanks that drain out the side. A bottom sewer port pointing toward the ground is a pain. If you drag the rear of the trailer, you have just ruined your black tank. Hooking up the sewer hose is a pain in the neck. I just didn't like it.

I happened to buy the lowest profile toilet at Camping World which was about 13" high. The black tank "console" was 9" high. That arrangement really does make a "throne" at 22" seat height.

Just sharing my experiences with the 69 Globetrotter above floor black tank...

David

[gomotomoto]

Originally Posted by Lumatic

Hmmm, That will add a few hundred pounds to the rear end when full which might affect towing and place some stress on the frame.

We've never towed with any black water, we always dump. I'd be nervous towing a brand new airstream with that much weight. They say it can handle it, but I'm certain the rivets say otherwise.



I'm definitely not going to go hog-wild, but I'm pretty excited to re-do the plumbing setup.

[gomotomoto]

Originally Posted by FL Crackers

I would tend to agree; however, it would probably be rare traveling with a full black water tank. Most of us would probably dump before hitting the road.

I would just caution you (gomotomoto) on removing the bathroom and black water tank. We did just that on our first AS - a 1977 Tradewind. Although it gave us a whole lot of space for a big queen size bed, it did limit the market when it came time to sell. I believe that there will always be someone who will like your unit enough to buy down the road, it just takes time finding them.

There have been posts on joining the black and grey tanks to increase the overall storage capacity. You might consider that - leaving the potential to add the bath back in later.

We are commiting to this one and I'm not too worried about resale value, but good looking out!

[gomotomoto]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

My 25' Safari has the black tank above the floor, directly beneath the toilet. The toilet is a short model that sets on a box which hides the black tank.
Perhaps you might work out some similar situation, converting your black tank into the gray tank.

We (2 of us) can go a week or more without dumping the black. But 3 days, 39 gallons, is as long as we can go on the gray if we use the shower sparingly. We use a blue tank for gray water transport when we have no hookups where draining on the ground is not allowed.

Thank you! I'm going this route for sure. Seems like it's also the most straightforward.

[A W Warn]

You are welcome!

The warning above about the valves near the rear is true. Try to keep the valves and pipes above the skid line.
Tie a string so that it is at the bottom of the rear bumper. Extend that string to the bottom of the rear tire. Keep the plumbing above that string (the skid line <- I made up that name)
On my trailer the black tank exits downward about 12" from the rear wall. Where it come through the floor/belly pan it has a bend that turns the 3" pipe toward the front of the trailer. Doing it this way, the valve is moved forward a couple feet so that it does not drag even when the rear of the trailer does.

Let me know if you would like a photo.

[gomotomoto]

So, have decided to go with the above floor black tank (low profile toilet on top) with the two open floor bays set up for grey water. Any suggestions on where to pick up the tanks? This is what I have:


1. Black tank above floor: Ideally this is at least 25 gallons. Not sure if I actually need a black colored tank, but I can't find anything "off the shelf"

2. Two grey tanks:
- first grey tank: 54.5 x 23.5 x 6"
- second grey tank: 55 x 16 3/4 x 4"


Not sure if anything "off the shelf" exists, or if I need to make custom tanks.

[dbj216]

I have purchased 5 tanks from Inca Plastics in California over the years. They have been molding tanks for the RV industry for many years. They have an on line catalog showing all the shapes and sizes of tanks available. I would thumb through the catalog until I found a tank configuration that fit my needs. The "H" tanks are the holding tanks.

That said, I have read comments here that Inca Plastics is hard to do business with. They don't answer the phone very well at all. I hope they can improve their customer service process and be a good supplier to the vintage trailer hobby.

David

http://www.incaplastics.com/

[gomotomoto]

Do you think it'll be ok if I cut out the crossmember between these two bays and install one single grey tank?



Here's the photo:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dtdckfemla...%20AM.jpg?dl=0


I this will work better and I won't have to tie two grey tanks together. I'll add two other crossmembers (front and back) to make up for it. I realize this will create a huge, heavy grey tank but I will weld in support from underneath. Also, we do not tow with grey water full...

[A W Warn]

I would not relocate the rear stringer because it is aligned with the rearmost wall/roof framing. That piece needs to be exactly where it is. If it were me I would reinforce it with a piece of angle iron since it is supporting the gray tank.

Have you considered just getting a single deeper tank, and add a metal box/pan beneath. That is what is done on the newer trailers.

[gomotomoto]

Originally Posted by A W Warn

I would not relocate the rear stringer because it is aligned with the rearmost wall/roof framing. That piece needs to be exactly where it is. If it were me I would reinforce it with a piece of angle iron since it is supporting the gray tank.

Have you considered just getting a single deeper tank, and add a metal box/pan beneath. That is what is done on the newer trailers.

Do you mean just do one grey tank and hang it below the belly pan?

[dbj216]

Sure. That is the way Airstream currently increased grey water capacity.

That is exactly what I did on the 66 Trade Wind. I had a 27 gallon grey, and a 27 gallon black tank. I plumbed the bath sink to the black tank to balance capacity a bit. I drained the tanks below the frame rail on the street side. I then had fabricated an aluminum pan and separate dump valve cover (for maintenance purposes.)

I agree. I think two 4" grey tanks daisy chained together adds complexity. But it does negate the need for a tank pan and does keep the "smooth, flat belly pan" that vintage guys like.

For me, it's function over form.

David

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by gomotomoto

Do you mean just do one grey tank and hang it below the belly pan?

Yes, that is what I was thinking. Hang the top just below the subfloor and let the bottom hang down below the belly, but keep it higher than the axle so that it is protected