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Old 06-26-2004, 02:00 PM   #21
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Not So Easy

WELL, we ended up cutting out that rear aluminum panel almost completely. No way to reach anything without doing so. But...the grey water tank had 4 screws, which we removed - nothing wanted to slide out!..Price says it looks like everything was PVC glued together. The grey valve was screwed and glued to PVC. Black is glued to PVC running toward grey and also up to vent stack. Can't tell for sure if black is in trouble - doesn't appear to be leaking like the grey, but we are thinking, like Ken above, that it would be worth replacing both while we have it open. Also, it looks like all the PVC will have to be cut out in order to remove anything?? Here's where we need you all to chime in with your expertise. Price thinks he needs to let service guy take over. I'm thinking with you all to help, we have done the hardest part and just need someone to give a heads up on where to go. Can PVC glue be dissolved? or is it just better to cut thru, yank old out and get all new? Ready and waiting
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Old 06-26-2004, 02:38 PM   #22
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"Can't tell for sure if black is in trouble - doesn't appear to be leaking like the grey, but we are thinking, like Ken above, that it would be worth replacing both while we have it open. "

Definitely replace the seals in both valves. Our '76 valve seals are both badly cracked, so while you mayonly have one bad valve today, you'll probably have the other one go soon. Our Argosy has all-plaastic valves - the Thetford part number for the complete seal kit is 09872,and costs $17.96.

"Can PVC glue be dissolved? or is it just better to cut thru, yank old out and get all new?"

Not that I know of. What my husband's done is cut the PVC pipe so there is ~ 6" remaining before it's glued to the valve body. Then you have plenty of material to use (and modify)when you put it back together. We were planning on using rubber hose and hose clamps.

There is a nice write up here on how one forum member did it:

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ead.php?t=1559

Good luck!

Michelle
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Old 06-26-2004, 04:52 PM   #23
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The big question is the valve/pipe glued to the tank, or does it have a metal hose strap around it? Should not be glued to the tank, should just have hose strap.

Assuming it has a hose clamp, then yes I would just cut everything (pipes that is) - I mean everything out from the tanks to the sewer hose cap. Yours sounds like mine in that everything was glued together - there was no way to repair it.

Time for sawsall samari

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Old 06-26-2004, 05:10 PM   #24
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Hi Ken - Yes to clamp on lip side of valve running into grey tank. Other side of valve the lip runs into the PVC pipe and is glued. Can't exactly say re: black tank as we saw no screws and looked like valve was glued on both lips sides. We don't own a sawsall. Scroll saw, circular saw, hacksaw, reciprocating saw. Is a sawsall expensive? Is it portable. We are doing this repair in the back area (gravel) of an RV dealer where we have purchased parts and had some work done. They were nice enough to allow us back there for no cost to try to fix problem and see if they carried the correct Thetford part (they had some in stock). Got to the point of seeing that the valves were glued and quit for time in order to confer with our experts here!!
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Old 06-26-2004, 05:18 PM   #25
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Black water should not be glued to tank, unless some PO did it. Don't know how much a sawsall is - got mine from my father. Great tool though.

Just need some type of saw to cut the pvc pipe.

If I remember you are on the other side of the state from me, or I would come by and help - I'll be in Colorado Springs VAC rally in July if that helps.

If the valve is glued to the blackwater tank, not sure what to say on that one. Only thing I can think of is replace the tank, unless there is someway to replace just the flange. Could cut the valve off the tank and try to "ream" the old PVC out of the tank flange........ do you have a digital camera, we could get you to take some pics for us?

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Old 06-26-2004, 05:30 PM   #26
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Ken - the black tank and valve are somewhat of a mystery at this point. Price could not see the tank even after cutting away most of the back belly pan aluminum (that access panel was a joke!!) To the best of our guess, it looks like the black valve is glued on one side to PVC and the other side is glued to what looks to be the vent stack?? as Price said it looked like it ran straight up and there is vent stack on roof there. We hope to have this figured out/repaired within the week (looks like this weekend is shot), our digital camera is broken at this time, although Price hopes to get it in also
I will see if we can put a rush on camera and maybe get pics sometime this next week.
On another note, we will be coming down on Saturday of the rally to meet w/the many people we have enjoyed talking with here . Not bringin "Mini", just our Grand Wagoneer.
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Old 07-21-2004, 03:15 PM   #27
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Just can't let go of this thread...We have finished the black/grey valve replacements, gotten the aluminum to repair the panel we had to cut and tested for leaks. Bummer!!! Now the grey water tank neck has a split (don't know if this happened during repair or was always there)? Can anyone give advice on what we might do to repair the tank neck split w/o having to replace the whole tank? It is leaking pretty badly from there. (Price says duct tape - ha,ha) Thanks
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Old 07-23-2004, 03:30 PM   #28
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Heeellllooooo out there....!! Does anyone have an idea for fixing the grey valve neck so it won't leak..would a picture of the problem help? We are going camping in about 2 weeks so need to see if we can fix, need to patch for short time or need to replace grey tank (hope not). Would plumbers tape work? I'm just shooting in the dark here.
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Old 07-23-2004, 03:44 PM   #29
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I know of one member that repaired his poly tank (black water) with a soldering iron and some old translucent milk jugs.

The tank was cracked on the top, so the stresses involved were not as much of an issue, but at this point I am not sure you have much to lose. As he described it he used the soldering iron to heat/melt the plastic of the tank while adding additional material from the milk jugs into the melted section. Basically a low tech form of plastic welding.
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Old 07-23-2004, 05:59 PM   #30
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Price is talking about plastic epoxy. Anyone had a successful usage of that? The plastic welding sounds interesting.>>>>
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Old 07-23-2004, 07:44 PM   #31
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Grey water leak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken J
Replacing the valves is pretty easy - on my 75, they could not be rebuilt, so I took off the back bumper, removed the rear-ward sheet and got the sawsall out - had those puppies off in about 5min or less. Then sent the valves to an A/S dealer and he sent me back exact replacements - put new valves, pvc pipe and new connector in - took about 1/2 - 1 hour and ended up with everything new from the tank on out brand new.

I spent more time trying to figure out how to fix the old valves than it took just to replace the whole thing.

Ken
New AS owner needs help. I tested all three tanks (fresh, black, grey) by adding water to ea. When water went in through the sink I noticed the leak right out of the discharge. Although the valve was shut it still would leak and then pour when the valve opened. Here are my questions;

1. Was my test accurate?
2. How do I get to these valves? I have no access panel.

Thanks in advance for all the support. I just bought this AS 75 Tradewind and have yet to camp in it. My three young boys are counting on "father fix-it".

Bob
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Old 07-23-2004, 08:21 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COArgosy78
Price is talking about plastic epoxy. Anyone had a successful usage of that? The plastic welding sounds interesting.>>>>

The issue with the epoxy is that it is a chemical reaction trying to bond to a material that was specifically designed to not bond to anything. That is why the plastic welding works, you are melting the existing material and adding some of the same material in. This is the way the tanks were originally made, heat and pressure.
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Old 07-24-2004, 09:29 AM   #33
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Bob

I have the exact same trailer - sounds to me like you have leaky valves - they get that way when they are old. You should be able to pull the last section of belly out - you have to take off the bumper and remove the sheet - be very careful as you drill out the rivets - the tanks are right above it. Then cut out all the sewer plumbing and carefully remove the valves from the tank, then replace.

Welcome to the forum!

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Old 07-24-2004, 10:35 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyland
1. Was my test accurate?
That is the method i used to test the valves on mine. To repair the leaking i just purchased rebuild kits for both vavles and that fixed it.
Quote:
2. How do I get to these valves? I have no access panel.
Well, mine is probably different and im sure someone here with a similar model can tell you for sure but from what i've learned, cuttiny yourself a access point under the valves is usually involved, as was in my case. Perhaps you will be able to just remove some of the rivets in the belly pan to get at them.

Good luck.
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Old 07-24-2004, 11:39 AM   #35
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Alright - I'm thinking that the welding idea is the way to go for now, but wondered if anyone has heard of or had experience w/this...

PLASTECH

Saw it when researching in Google. 6oz is about $30. and is only in US at California dealer. Looks promising...?
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Old 07-24-2004, 12:35 PM   #36
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[B]WARNING
Before you work on the black water valve, flush out the tank and put a bleach solution in the tank and pipes. Many forms of bacteria live in there. I did that, and while working on the pipes I had a couple of drips on my forehead. I came down with swelling and scabs on my foehead and eyebrows, and was in bed for the summer. I still have some from time to time.

Wear rubber gloves, and a full face-mask. Be careful.

Rae
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Old 07-24-2004, 01:01 PM   #37
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Rae

Thanks for the reminder - hopefully your unfortunate experience can help others. I know you have posted this before, since this subject comes up from time to time, you should keep reminding those of this bad stuff - this can never be said too many times.

Thanks again - hope you are well now
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Old 07-24-2004, 01:47 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COArgosy78
Alright - I'm thinking that the welding idea is the way to go for now, but wondered if anyone has heard of or had experience w/this...

PLASTECH

Saw it when researching in Google. 6oz is about $30. and is only in US at California dealer. Looks promising...?
Dear CO:
Plastic welding might work. I have used 2-part plastic welder on my tank to patch a hole, but you must have the correct formula. Either go to an RV shop and buy a plastic tank patch, or go to Walmart and look at a product called Plastic Welder, get the company name and call them. They can tell you which product to use. This product only costs $3-4. I can't tell how much room you have on the neck, or which side is split. If it is the valve flange you can buy those and replace them. If it is part of the glued up mechanism, you might get a old inner tube from a tire dealer, buy yourself a bunch of 3-4 inch stainless steel strap hose clamps, make a rubber patch and strap it down with side by side clamps. Good Luck. Jeff
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Old 07-30-2004, 12:34 AM   #39
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Smile Replaced waste valves and drain plumbing

After our 3000 mile trip I had to replace the gray and black water valves and pipes. I did fill the tanks with bleach and water. Took the trailer for a ride to dump the tanks. The removal was easy. I removed the bumper as well as the lower sheet metal. I removed the pipes and valves. Used Naval Jelly on the steel brackets to stop the rust. Painted everything silver. Bought 2 new valves and some adapters. Used Rubber couplers from the tanks to the vavles. Two trips to Home Depot for various 3" drain elbows to complete the installation. Cost me about $150.00 to do the job. The local RV dealer wanted $1000.00 and a week. My Airstream is very easy to work on all it takes a river gun and a drill and some common sense.
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Old 07-31-2004, 06:00 PM   #40
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Talking I have the same Job ahead of me.

How did you remove the belly skin without cutting it? Did you rivit it back on or do you use screws? Do I have to cut all the pipe off? I am actually working on it right now Sat. 7/31 4pm pacific time. I just came in to find out the easiest way to remove rivits when I read you post. This is my first project I am attempting on the 75 25' tradwind I just bought. I have some copper plumbing to replace next. If you have any other advice I would greatly appreciate it. Your post gave me some juice to get this going and take my first camping trip. Bob
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