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Old 05-27-2024, 06:15 PM   #1
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1970 18' Caravel
Harrington , WA
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Question 1970 Caravel - Not eligible for Harvest Host Membership?

Hello, I am FINALLY getting my 1970 Caravel road worthy! I wanted to take advantage of today's discount for Harvest Host membership and discovered this warning:
I acknowledge that my vehicle is a self-contained RV with a toilet, built-in gray water tank and inside cooking facilities. These are required for membership. If your vehicle is non-compliant, your membership will be canceled and you will be refunded.
I had planned to be careful and stingy with water use, and Harvest Host stays are only for 1 night, so "doable." But since there is no separate "built-in" grey water tank, am I technically not eligible for membership?😒

I have reviewed threads for grey water options but not plan to install a "built-in" separate grey water holding tank in my little 18' trailer.
Thanks,
Karen
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Old 05-27-2024, 06:19 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by KarenCR View Post
I had planned to be careful and stingy with water use, and Harvest Host stays are only for 1 night, so "doable." But since there is no separate "built-in" grey water tank, am I technically not eligible for membership?😒
Your trailer has a combo black and gray water tank doesn't it? If your gray water spills straight onto the ground, then you are not eligible. But if your gray water is collected in a tank of some kind, you are.
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Old 05-27-2024, 10:55 PM   #3
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1970 Caravel - Not eligible for Harvest Host Membership?

hikingcamera,
Yes - as I understand it - my gray water goes into the black water tank when in a full hook-up situation and the Black tank is open to a campground sewer hookup service. But, from reading other posts in the forum, with the black tank "closed" - the grey water evidently does not feed into the black tank and can back up into the shower drain!?! There is a separate outlet for grey water to which a hose can be attached to fill an external container or run out on the ground (which I wouldn't do.)
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Old 05-27-2024, 11:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by KarenCR View Post
Yes - as I understand it - my gray water goes into the black water tank when in a full hook-up situation and the Black tank is open to a campground sewer hookup service. But, from reading other posts in the forum, with the black tank "closed" - the grey water evidently does not feed into the black tank and can back up into the shower drain!?! There is a separate outlet for grey water to which a hose can be attached to fill an external container or run out on the ground (which I wouldn't do.)
That sounds very strange. Granted yours is an older model, so maybe they did things differently then, but the smallest current model Airstreams (really just the 16 footers) have a combo black and gray water tank.

My best guess is that the confusion comes in that if you don't dump your black and gray combo tank, eventually it will backup. But the common wisdom is to let your tank fill and then empty it, rather than keeping it open. This allows everything to flush through the sewer hose. But I've also never had a combo tank, and I'm sure they need to think about black water not getting up into sinks, etc., so maybe there is more to this than I'm aware of.
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Old 05-28-2024, 07:24 AM   #5
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We have a 67 Caravel. I added a Valterra valve under the bath sink. Directly across from the black tank drain. Drain pull handle is in bumper trunk.
Then we carry a portable Grey tank.
Hope this helps you. I cans send pictures I if you'd like .
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Old 05-28-2024, 09:13 AM   #6
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We also have a ‘67 Caravel. The grey water just exits onto the ground. Our coach doesn’t have a combo tank. The black tank exits from the same pipe the gray water does when emptying the tank. When camping we use everything very sparingly… The exit has a bayonet fitting, and we can attach a hose to that to draw off grey water into the woods (we only use biodegradable products). So, no Harvest Hosts for us.
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Old 05-28-2024, 09:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenCR View Post
hikingcamera,
Yes - as I understand it - my gray water goes into the black water tank when in a full hook-up situation and the Black tank is open to a campground sewer hookup service. But, from reading other posts in the forum, with the black tank "closed" - the grey water evidently does not feed into the black tank and can back up into the shower drain!?! There is a separate outlet for grey water to which a hose can be attached to fill an external container or run out on the ground (which I wouldn't do.)
KarenCR
Not familiar with your model, from your writing it sounds that there is some sort of diverter if you’re not hooked up to camp sewage hookup. The requirement is ‘ no drainage on the host’s ground ‘ ie; fully contained within your trailer, as I understand. You also could make an inquiry to Harvest Host, explaining that you could meet the requirement if you do not use sink and shower.
Edit: Maybe an option is catch all kitchen water in a basin then empty it in toilet.
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Old 05-28-2024, 10:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by hikingcamera View Post
That sounds very strange. Granted yours is an older model, so maybe they did things differently then, but the smallest current model Airstreams (really just the 16 footers) have a combo black and gray water tank.

My best guess is that the confusion comes in that if you don't dump your black and gray combo tank, eventually it will backup. But the common wisdom is to let your tank fill and then empty it, rather than keeping it open. This allows everything to flush through the sewer hose. But I've also never had a combo tank, and I'm sure they need to think about black water not getting up into sinks, etc., so maybe there is more to this than I'm aware of.
Hikingcamera apparently you don't know, trailers manufactured before 1/1/1973 were not legally require to have a tank to hold gray water so most were not equipped with a way to hold gray water.
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Old 05-28-2024, 12:08 PM   #9
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Hikingcamera apparently you don't know, trailers manufactured before 1/1/1973 were not legally require to have a tank to hold gray water so most were not equipped with a way to hold gray water.
I do not know that; I've learned something new.
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Old 05-28-2024, 01:00 PM   #10
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Granted yours is an older model, so maybe they did things differently then...
Yep. Airstreams did not include built-in grey tanks until 1973. Back in the day, it was okay to run grey water on the ground.

Our '56 was considered a "Park Model"...it didn't have black or grey tanks - it was intended to be hooked up in a campground all the time or utilize a 'gopher hole' if boondocking or primitive camping. During our restoration, added BOTH black & grey tanks.

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Old 05-28-2024, 01:55 PM   #11
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Yep. Airstreams did not include built-in grey tanks until 1973. Back in the day, it was okay to run grey water on the ground.

Our '56 was considered a "Park Model"...it didn't have black or grey tanks - it was intended to be hooked up in a campground all the time or utilize a 'gopher hole' if boondocking or primitive camping. During our restoration, added BOTH black & grey tanks.

Shari
A friend with history of Airstreams and rallies, as a kid at rallies and an entrepreneur got .50 cents from each Airstream to fill in the gopher holes at the end of rallies.
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Old 05-28-2024, 05:07 PM   #12
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A friend with history of Airstreams and rallies, as a kid at rallies and an entrepreneur got .50 cents from each Airstream to fill in the gopher holes at the end of rallies.
Hope it was long enough ago that .50 cents would have actually bought him something!

Shari
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Old 05-28-2024, 07:45 PM   #13
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I guess Bubble Gum and Base Ball cards were enough, hopefully he got a Micky Mantel or Babe Ruth⚾️
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Old 05-28-2024, 11:17 PM   #14
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Hikingcamera apparently you don't know, trailers manufactured before 1/1/1973 were not legally require to have a tank to hold gray water so most were not equipped with a way to hold gray water.
Yes - I'm aware that requirements changed over the years about handling grey water. And I'm aware of various options to manage grey water for my situation. But I was surprised by the Harvest Host REQUIREMENT to have a "built-in grey water tank." I understand why they do that as some folks are not responsible and could pollute their host's ground. I may contact Harvest Hosts of others have suggested to see if there are exceptions with proof of an external grey water collection system.
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Old 05-28-2024, 11:28 PM   #15
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Yes - I'm aware that requirements changed over the years about handling grey water. And I'm aware of various options to manage grey water for my situation. But I was surprised by the Harvest Host REQUIREMENT to have a "built-in grey water tank." I understand why they do that as some folks are not responsible and could pollute their host's ground. I may contact Harvest Hosts of others have suggested to see if there are exceptions with proof of an external grey water collection system.
Since they probably don't provide a place to dump wastewater, they might think of external greywater tanks as a risk. Some people aren't going to want to put a full BlueBoy into their trailer or tow vehicle...
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Old 05-29-2024, 04:53 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarenCR View Post
Yes - I'm aware that requirements changed over the years about handling grey water. And I'm aware of various options to manage grey water for my situation. But I was surprised by the Harvest Host REQUIREMENT to have a "built-in grey water tank." I understand why they do that as some folks are not responsible and could pollute their host's ground. I may contact Harvest Hosts of others have suggested to see if there are exceptions with proof of an external grey water collection system.
Your best approach is going to be to come up with a plan to bring your trailer into compliance with modern standards/requirements. It really is no longer acceptable to drain grey water directly into the environment. Merely having a plumbing system that permits this is frowned upon, even if it’s not used.

Get yourself a grey tank. Or at the very least re-plumb so all grey water drains to the black tank.
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Old 05-29-2024, 06:51 AM   #17
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Outdoor showers!!!

I added gray water tanks to both my early '60s Airstreams for ease and ability to boondock and collect the gray water. It wasn't an easy project on either camper, but worth it in the end.

Everyone seems to be very fussy about gray water contacting the ground. The earth will filter it. Problem is, there are many more campers than there used to be (many of whom have little camping etiquette), so the odds are that things could get messy.

I have thought it very humorous over the years that a major selling point of modern campers is OUTDOOR SHOWERS!!!! Oh, but those are just for rinsing off your muddy boots and sandy flip flops after a day of activity, right? Or are people ACTUALLY taking outdoor showers? Hmmm. And what are they using to collect that GRAY WATER?
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Old 05-29-2024, 07:26 AM   #18
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Yes - I'm aware that requirements changed over the years about handling grey water. And I'm aware of various options to manage grey water for my situation. But I was surprised by the Harvest Host REQUIREMENT to have a "built-in grey water tank." I understand why they do that as some folks are not responsible and could pollute their host's ground. I may contact Harvest Hosts of others have suggested to see if there are exceptions with proof of an external grey water collection system.
That was just to Hikingcamera, I figured you knew about it with owning an older trailer.
If you have a below floor black tank you could add an additional valve on the sewer opening and leave the current black tank valve open to let the gray go into the black tank. This wont work with above floor black tank.
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Old 05-29-2024, 08:45 AM   #19
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I don’t think a Harvest Host would appreciate someone taking an outside shower, either.

We have only used ours to rinse mud off boots and cleaning the dogs paws. It’s more of an outside hose spigot than a shower, really.
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Old 05-29-2024, 09:29 AM   #20
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From my experience, "most" all campgrounds have required full containment of waste water. You can understand why, right? Ever so conscious we all are (well, most of us anyway), some folks who run a hose into a separate container, can still have accidents with water spilling out if disconnected. I am sure thats what these places are trying to avoid. An exception to the rule, begs for another and another...but perhaps you will get lucky if you ask them. On the down side, I have seen some really sad hookups while traveling especially in state parks, with detached gray and also black water tanks if you can believe it. (I actually saw a fella from India few years back who was camping with family in an old SOB in Bakers Hole, who was caught bathing/shampoo and soap under the fresh water tap shared by everyone! The camp host went non linier and jumped all over him!) If you can get into your black water tank with the valve, that's the way to go IMHO.

We try to use camp facilities as much as possible while camping; primitive or modern places to potty and conserve the black and gray storage when boondocking. Harvest Hosts typically do not offer any of that....yet.
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