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Old 03-30-2020, 09:59 AM   #1
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Monitor shows I lost 50 gallons of freshwater in 24hrs.What is this on off valve for?

Just bought a 2007 30’ classic, currently troubleshooting an issue with my freshwater holding tank rapidly draining (per the monitor). I have a bit of a drip coming from behind the city water hookup, but not so severe that it would dump freshwater at the rate we’re experiencing - per the monitor, I lost about 25 gallons of fresh water during a 1 hr drive. Filling freshwater on morning 1 only to see it on empty status (per monitor) on morning 2 with very minimal usage.

I know the water is not free flowing to my grey tank. I have not yet been able to check if freshwater is free flowing to black tank but from my
Understanding this can only occur if toilet is leaking, which it is not.

As I troubleshoot, my mind is telling me that I either have a much larger leak at city water connection than I believe, the water is flowing to black tank or I have a bad sensor in the freshwater tank/faulty monitor and I’m actually still full of water. When I open the white drain valve under the wheels for the freshwater tank, it flows solidly, but I’m off grid at the moment without the ability to refill and don’t want to deplete whatever freshwater I have remaining.

Under the sink there is 1 on off valve that I can’t seem to find any literature on. In the photo, it’s the white valve- not the silver valves. What is that?

Once I have access to water again, I will try draining black tank to see if it’s full (monitor shows it is empty). And I will try topping off fresh water tank to see if we have sensor/monitor issue- which would lead to next question of how to replace sensor/monitor for freshwater tank.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:05 AM   #2
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Your trouble shooting ideas are logical, which always helps. But try dripping a faucet into a one cup measure... it fills.a lot faster than you think. At home a single dripping faucet can add 25% to your water bill. Some of the loss may be staying in the belly pan. Drop a corner and don't put your face right under it.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:30 AM   #3
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Hi....

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This valve?

Don't know if it's factory or not but it may be an effort to keep the FW tank full when hooked to city water.
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Old 03-30-2020, 10:41 AM   #4
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The white thing looks like a cap for an inline water filter/strainer of some sort, instead of a valve. I would guess the thing unscrews and you can take out the strainer and clean it out. It looks like whatever it is, there's a bypass around it that cannot be turned off, so I don't know how effective it would be.
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Old 03-30-2020, 11:07 AM   #5
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1. Drip coming out from behind city water connection.

Are you connected to city water when this is observed? If yes, then this likely is a city water connection regulator that is failing. It's in a hatch at the bottom right of the trailer, right? If you need to replace this or bypass test it can be removed. W/O secret handshake three bandaid project. W/secret handshakes zero bandaid. Let us/me know I have a 2007 Classic also and replaced mine.

2. The pic you supplied, that's at the water heater right?

Airstream used crimp fittings on the PEX pipe. That valve has a shark bite type insertion fitting so that looks like a previous owners modification, not sure but that just looks like a shut off valve, not sure yet what it's for.

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Old 03-30-2020, 11:17 AM   #6
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Old 03-30-2020, 12:05 PM   #7
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I just found a valve on my rig and in a similar place that is the drain valve for the freshwater water tank.

Yours looks open.

Try turning it to a right angle to the pipe it is on and refill.

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Old 03-30-2020, 07:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foiled Again View Post
Your trouble shooting ideas are logical, which always helps. But try dripping a faucet into a one cup measure... it fills.a lot faster than you think. At home a single dripping faucet can add 25% to your water bill. Some of the loss may be staying in the belly pan. Drop a corner and don't put your face right under it.
Thanks Foiled- I got underneath the trailer to the Freshwater belly pan and turns out there was another drain behind a bolted on cover next to the 3 drains by passenger side tires under exterior. I’d already closed those 3, removing the hatch revealed an additional larger freshwater drain. However, that drain was sealed and dry after removing the belly pan cover. Good point on the drip, but that 25% in your anecdote would be over the course of a month, whereas I lost all my water over a 24 hr period. Theres massive loss or misreading happening somewhere and it’s happening over a few hours.

Update since this morning’s post: I refilled freshwater tank, drove 3 hours, got to my destination, was proud of my “fixin abilities” to have monitor show “full” so took a camp style shower (wet, turn off water, lather, quick rinse) then astounded to see monitor show empty. This unit has 50 gallon fresh tank, no way did I use more than 5 gallons in that shower. There’s no water under the trailer. Delay in monitor reading? Sensor issue? Not at a hookups right now to see if tank is actually empty again.
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Old 03-30-2020, 07:52 PM   #9
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Good point Rich, the bypass renders the valve completely useless... closed it just to feel like I have control over something.

GC- the drip was coming from behind city water hookup, without city water connected. Trying to boondock with fresh tank only, but after snuggling up the rear of the connection and closing the on/off regulator valve, the drip stopped. I refilled freshwater (which was indeed nearly empty), and drove for 3 hrs to next destination, checked monitor and showed full! Felt like I’d fixed it so celebrated with a VERY short shower- no more than 5 gallons used, then to my dismay saw the monitor show freshwater empty. This tank is 50 gallons, no way it emptied that fast. Is there a delay in monitor l/sensor by chance? My gray and black tanks read as nearly completely empty FYI, so I don’t think I’m losing freshwater into those through a leak. I also checked my water pump area in closet to verify no moisture there, we’re dry everywhere that water could be coming from. What in tarnation?!
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:37 AM   #10
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Noob1983,

Hopefully all normal that would be good. The city water connection regulator has been reported (mine also) weeping hence the comment. If the PEX nut needed snugging then leak stopped. Lucky day.

I recently had my first PEX experience with AS and now carry a few clamps and fittings. But I also have a 1/2" X 3" plastic pipe nipple and a 1/2" X FM garden hose fitting that I carry as a bypass rig for a leaking regulator. The PEX fitting to the regulator uses a nut and a rubber seal and connects as is. FWIW this is the brand of fittings and clamps that I chose as tool box spares https://flairit.com/product-category/pexlock-fittings/ no special tools req'd.

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Old 03-31-2020, 06:20 AM   #11
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So... it's the monitor that's 'empty' not the tank?🤔
Not an uncommon concern.😖

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Old 03-31-2020, 06:54 AM   #12
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If you are talking about the micro-pulse tank monitor system then that's probably the issue. I don't even bother using mine, I thing the grey tank is the only one that even remotely works. How about you just turn the outside shower on and fill up a 5 gallon bucket until you empty the tank? Not sure what the point of any other troubleshooting is until you take the most basic step.
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Old 03-31-2020, 08:49 AM   #13
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My 2006 has Micropulse sensors. Freshwater and black water quit 2 years ago. Gray water sensor is all that's really working and it will fluctuate wildly. The freshwater sensor can only be reached by cutting a hole in the belly pan. Black water sensor needs to be replaced, one of the little prongs in the connector rusted off. I replaced the connector on the line and now it reads full or empty, nothing in between.

If you don't have water on the ground then most likely your sensor or the connector are having issues. If you think you used only a small amount of water, try refilling it to see how much it will take. Five gallons won't take any time at all.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:18 AM   #14
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Honest, 50 gallons in 24 hours and 25 gallons in an hour's drive...you would notice the water escaping. Something would be far more than "dripping", the ground would be soaking wet, or the floor and you would KNOW you had an issue even if you weren't certain what it was. (and hey, even with wonky sensors, you can double check your blank tank from the toilet).

We had a small water tank pop loose in a tent trailer while driving (10 gallons I think) and there was water dripping out of every corner of that trailer. Folks driving by were honking and signaling we had an issue as it dripped down the road. It was totally apparent to everyone and that was on a 4 hour drive.

Meanwhile, sensors can be unreliable -did you time or measure exactly how much water you put in? We had a tank with a sensor that needed to be "burped" or else it would indicate "full" even though it wasn't even close. We learned that it took about 10 minutes at home to fill it, and if it ran over much before that, we needed to give it a few minutes to get the burp out and then go at it again. That really was dependent on the flow -the faster the water was going in, the more it needed time to burp and get the air out of the system.

Of course, I've also seen a friend totally bamboozled by empty tanks when he was trying to fill it using either the city water connection or the black tank rinse out connection (that one is ugly if you don't catch it in time). He's a really smart guy, just didn't put on his glasses to actually read where he was putting in the water and didn't check to make sure he did have water before he hit the road.
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Old 03-31-2020, 11:32 AM   #15
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In my trailer that valve (which is also not on the plumbing diagram) is to the outside water faucet. The brass valve is a check valve that opens to allow water to flow to the outside faucet. I don't remember the pressure setting, but it was above the pressure the pump could deliver. When the white valve is open, you will always have water at the outside faucet. With the valve closed the outside faucet only works when connected to city water.

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Old 03-31-2020, 04:48 PM   #16
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Update: I’m now at a spot with access to water and am able to do some testing. About 1 hr ago, I refilled fresh water, which was on empty per the monitor and seemed to take an amount of water that supported the monitor’s assertion.

After refilling freshwater tank, monitor showed full. Gray water tank does not register on the monitor. 1 hr later (now), Fresh water monitor showed nearly empty. Gray water did not show up on monitor (monitor skips gray water status as if gray water Tank isn’t there despite there being a release handle for gray water at the sewage release area. I released gray water handle and about 50 gallons came flying out.

Somehow, water I want to keep in my freshwater is getting to my gray water tank nearly instantly. I hear a noise from time to time sorta like pump engaging, but wrote it off as maybe a sewage blender. Starting to suspect I have a free flow from fresh water to gray water. Any suggestions?
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:54 PM   #17
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There is no direct connection between your freshwater tank and you gray tank, period. The two systems are separated by the space between the faucet and the drain. Water goes from your pump to your kitchen and bathroom sink, your indoor and outdoor shower and your toilet. Maybe you have an outdoor spigot also, some larger trailers do. Other than low point drain pipes, that's it. The only pipes going into the gray water tank are from drains in your sinks and indoor shower. The water would have to leak out of a faucet and go down a drain to get to your gray tank.
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Old 03-31-2020, 05:59 PM   #18
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SWAG. Time to investigate calibrating the sensor system?

I've never done it, just read about it. Once.
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Old 03-31-2020, 06:11 PM   #19
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1) Find your 12 volt water pump switch. Turn it off.

2) Refill the fresh tank and see if it stays full.

If it stays full, turn the pump on. It should NOT make noise. If it does, there is a leak somewhere that needs to be found first.

Finding that leak may lead you to the cause of the gray tank filling so quick.
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Old 03-31-2020, 06:38 PM   #20
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My 2006 has a valve in the same place as yours if you are talking about the bathroom lavatory (sink). That valve is a shut off so you can drain and leave open the outside faucet next to the city water fill in the winter. The PO may have let it freeze up and changed it out with a different valve. There was a check valve and bypass the would stick and cause problems when winterizing. I had Airstream remove it completely so as to always get a good drain.
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