Polishing Tool Comparison- What Works Best?

[millionairstream]

Lets use the power of the vast members here to try and discover which polishing method, using which tools, and products will really work best.

Lets forget the fact that the "proven" method has been established by those who have "done it"- and anyone who is interested, check out info, trial and error, and measure up in time and quality which way can actually get results that we can be proud of- and hopefully with more weekends free for camping.

I'm suggesting that the barrel/drum polishing systems are affordable, easy, damage free- and WAY less time.

Spec Distribution- aircraftpolish.com Contact- Paul.
A&H Machine- airmarktools.net Contact- Brian.
Cyclo- perfectpolish.com Contact- Tom

I also know from experience, that using a variable speed buffer with a variety of coarse, soft, and finishing pads and the proper polish with each pad- will produce equal results in less time that one of the methods above.

Lets see what the masses say after doing research into the various methods and tools. This thread should not be utilized by those who like to pick at us who have an open mind and search for better/faster systems.

I'm also convinced that the expense of advanced polishing systems, when related to the costs of $125-$150 per foot, and the value of our trailers- which has skyrocketed in the past few years, is unwarranted to owners of classic Airstream and other aluminum aircraft trailers.

Let the fun begin!

[uwe]

Compressor rental for a towable Diesel powered compressor is $ 95.00 a day, without fuel and accessories. It's more powerful than what is needed, but nothing smaller is available in my area. ( 185cfm)
There's some info attached in a .PDF which I already posted on another thread.
Apparently there are several sizes of the drum polishers available, from about $ 600.00 on. It allegedly takes 1/3 of the time with a drum polisher to polish a panel to high gloss, with no need for using a cyclo to take out swirls.
I am looking deeply into this right now, to get as much input from professionals as possible. Stay tuned..

[Stan Z]

I just finished using the method/equipment recommended by perfect polish and vintage trailer supply (compounding first, then using the cyclo to remove the swirl marks) I am happy with the result. I probably should have spent more time compounding to get rid of all the filiform corrosion that had started under the old clear-coat. I used the Nuvite line of products (F7, a little G6, C and S)

I bought supplies from both Vintage Trailer Supply and Perfect Polish, both had excellent service.

At first I starting keep track of how many hours I was spending, but later gave up, as it got kind of depressing

[millionairstream]

Stan- What would you estimate the hours to be?

[uwe]

Originally Posted by Stan Z

I just finished using the method/equipment recommended by perfect polish and vintage trailer supply (compounding first, then using the cyclo to remove the swirl marks) I am happy with the result. I probably should have spent more time compounding to get rid of all the filiform corrosion that had started under the old clear-coat. I used the Nuvite line of products (F7, a little G6, C and S)

I bought supplies from both Vintage Trailer Supply and Perfect Polish, both had excellent service.

At first I starting keep track of how many hours I was spending, but later gave up, as it got kind of depressing

I am doing the same thing, same sources, pretty much. So far there's approximately 100 hours in the polish job, with about 30-50 more to go.

[ALANSD]

don't you all think this topic has been beat to death already? Whatever method works for the "polishee" is the best.

[joewinfield]

I hope this thread gets somewhere. Polishing is the last thing on my restoration agenda and I hope to learn some new ideas. Don't want a mirror shine and don't want to spend hundreds of hours. joe

[peregrine]

OK, now that we've ''kicked '' the polishing technique to death, how do we maintain all that mirror finish? I've tryed wax's,both liquid and paste and still have the six month touch ups. Rain drops leave water spots and seems no way to prevent oxidation. Any ideas out there?

[uwe]

Originally Posted by peregrine

OK, now that we've ''kicked '' the polishing technique to death, how do we maintain all that mirror finish? I've tryed wax's,both liquid and paste and still have the six month touch ups. Rain drops leave water spots and seems no way to prevent oxidation. Any ideas out there?

Looks like the 6-month touchups are here to stay. My trailer oxidizes inside my shop, under flourescent lights...sucks.
I am learing that the better the initial finish is, the longer it lasts. I have sections of the same panel that oxidize quicker than others, because they're not quite finished yet.
How do you figure we kicked the polishing technique to death? So far everybody, including myself, has been pretty much doing the same thing with similar tools, no?
Just wondering - no offense intended.

[peregrine]

N o offence taken, just my fustration in trying to keep a shiny trailer shiny. Wish there was a answer other than some kind of a clear coat application.

[Ken J]

I've had good luck with Rollites sealer - it goes on with a damp cloth and you wipe off - goes on/off real quick.

Course storing inside does help as does living a dry climate.

Perhaps a little I should mention a little Airstream polish history - way way back Wally suggested kerosene to wipe off the trailer with (I think that generation used kerosene for everything) then Met-All then in 1998 Airmark showed up - lots of folks were using the polish that they sell, then Rollite became the popular polish - seems everybody was using it (we didn't even know about cylos yet - just fancy dewalts) - then there was a rally that the Nuvite folks showed up at and Nuvite became the popular polish - Course there has been acid washes, southern shine and others along the way. I'm sure something else will come along some day...... I think we are all from Missouri (the show me state) when it comes to polishing - and when someone comes up with a dazzeling trailer as the Mannings did, thats when we sit up and listen.

Ken J.

[lewster]

I've stayed clear of this topic for many reasons, but I feel that it's time to make a 'contribution'. Folks can use what they like and I don't care of even one person does as I do, if it works for me in the time frame I have alloted to the job, then it is a good product!

I've been polishing metals for 30+ years as a custom goldsmith. Even aluminum! I have products that I use on a regular basis but I have never tried them on a large flat aluminum panel, though I used them on a regular basis on the Alcoa polished wheels of my former MoHo. I recently took a piece of aluminum bar stock that was just siting in my shop and took the initial dull surface down with tripoli, then did a final gloss with green rouge. The section of the bar that was polished has a mirror shine, with most of the scratches and surface imperfections gone. If I wanted a true perfect surface, I would have prepped it with ascending grades of emery and then polished it.

My rear bumper was delivered to me with severe swirl marks in it. It looked like it was clearcoated and after a call to Jackson Center, I was told that Airstream does not use clearcote any longer.....WRONG!!! The bumber IS clearcoated!! Once I remove that and polish it as described above, I'll report back on the results.

I'm always open to new products and techniques. In fact I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the manufacturer of the skins themselves....that being ALCOA!!! They make their own polishing products and make one fine sealant product also. It made a big difference on the wheels of my MoHo and I plan to also use it on my newly polished bumper.

[azflycaster]

Originally Posted by Ken J

I think that generation used kerosene for everything
Ken J.

Hey Ken!
I thought it was interesting that the older manuals say to pour kerosene into the waste water traps as part of the winterizing process. It also states not to use anti-freeze. Maybe that was before the RV non toxic anti-freeze came along...

[millionairstream]

Originally Posted by ALANSD

don't you all think this topic has been beat to death already? Whatever method works for the "polishee" is the best.

And I know thats asking for trouble.

I have found 2 ways of achieving a perfect shine, 1 with buffing wheels, 1 with drum polishing- BOTH without Nuvite- although Nuvite can be used- its just too expensive, BOTH without a Cyclo, and BOTH systems in a lot less time than what the "rule makers" of polishing Airstreams have encouraged everyone to follow.

There is a certain amount of brainwashing thats affecting people here- the "we did it this way and it is the only way" doesn't work with me, I have a different way of thinking and its always worked- it did again, but when I suggest it- it gets hammered here and people end up buying products and spending time that I found ridiculous. I'd rather have my trailer with a smooth acid wash finish than to spend that much time and money.

So far the only member with an open mind and on the right path is Uwe. He's to be commended because he is into his polishing job the "right way" and is looking at doing it differently. Other people that have gotten into the "right way" have written that the time is killing them. Does everyone with a trailer see 200 hours as normal? Efficient?

If its the best way- why don't airlines use it? Why don't professional trailer polishers use it? Why does the system of using a tool that was created to assure damage free and faster polishing to a higher level scare everyone?

I can promise anyone who tries this "wrong way" that once they do, the right way is nothing but laughable. The first trailer I did with this system, was an early 50's, and took less than 30 hours- and it was BAD.

I'm curious how many people here have actually been in a polishing shop, worked with rouge, professional equipment, different alloys. If Lewster is a metal smith in the jewelry field, he has a great understanding of the way different metals react. He knows what I'm getting at, and knows rouge.

Maybe you're right- maybe it has been beaten to death. Maybe trailer folks have a mindset that will always have them buying Cyclos, and using Nuvite, and never realize that its taking 200 hours to do a 25 hour job with 10 times the material expense, because it is an inefficient way of achieving a damage free shine.

Someone who owns an Airstream, and a tow vehicle capable of pulling it, is probably of the financial means to afford the better way, and would prefer to spend all those weekends using the Airstream, than getting soaked in black mud. Why would you discourage anyone from learning that???

Look at it like this- when P&S or Airmark, show up to polish your trailer, does a band of guys get out and spend 3 weeks with a bunch of wobbly Cyclos hanging around your trailer? Then I want to know why I would have to? I want to see if I can replicate, with an affordable way, to be able to do as they do. It takes some investigation, some crafty buying and planning, but its surely easier and less expensive when you pay yourself a wage that you would NEVER work for in your job, which is probably not in the hot sun and getting black mud all over you.

People who don't like it, don't have to read it, or see the reaction when someone does it- just skip the thread- you can think to yourself- "oh well, I don't need to look at that thread- thats just those stupid guys trying to save time and money and do it like professionals do...."

[millionairstream]

Originally Posted by lewster

I'm always open to new products and techniques. In fact I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the manufacturer of the skins themselves....that being ALCOA!!! They make their own polishing products and make one fine sealant product also. It made a big difference on the wheels of my MoHo and I plan to also use it on my newly polished bumper.

Alcoa's polish line is sold through a distributor called CLB Enterprises, is available on airstream.com, and is supposed to work well.

http://www.detailguys.com/nw43.shtml

I'm going to guess that Alcoa had CLB create and manufacture the polish- Alcoa has a huge business and taking on something as small as this is going to eat up time and energy that they need other places, but a smaller company would be able to exist and profit nicely from having the endorsement of Alcoa on any aluminum related product.

The aircraft people I asked about it- months ago- said that it worked well, came in big buckets, and was reasonably cost effective. The large quantities and pricing are what I'm used to buying or making up- 5 gallon paint buckets full of polish. If you plan on working this way, you can order the buckets and split it with 3-4 other guys who are polishing at the same time to offset costs. I've stored mine for a long time as well- but you HAVE to get a total seal and in the right environment, otherwise it goes bad. The paint buckets that these polishes come in are not meant for long term storage.

Thanks for bringing up Alcoa Polish as a viable alternative Lewster.

[GreatPumpkin]

Originally Posted by millionairstream

........ I want to see if I can replicate, with an affordable way, to be able to do as they do. It takes some investigation, some crafty buying and planning, but its surely easier and less expensive ........

The meat and potatoes of this post after filtering out the ing.

What a wonderful idea. If you (or anyone else) can come up with (make/engineer/adapt/etc.) something that will work easier and cheaper, I don't think anyone here is opposed to that and will welcome it.

I agree 100% that the tried and true methods/products most people use are expensive - but I see the evidence that they work. If you read enough threads, you will see that there are plenty of free thinkers (including myself) that are trying/using different products. Some work, some don't, but we keep trying and experimenting and sharing our experiences.

Why expend so much energy bashing the tried and true methods/products? Drop the negativity and I think more people would listen to what you have to contribute.

You were joking about the weedwacker thingamajiggy, but what's out there already that could utilize a small stack of buffing wheels with a little re-engineering? Like I said earlier, my manual says straight line (rubbing with the grain) is best - I've done it and found it to be true. A buffing wheel mounted into my polisher and used on edge around the windows also works great.

Anyone tried an inline sander with a buffing pad? Probably moves to fast, but could one be altered to work slower? Airmark is patented I'm sure, but would it be possible to create a homemade version that would work with a standard air compressor? At a much lower cost?

Some weird and wild ideas maybe, but with a little discussion maybe the group could come up with something that will work. I'm fairly new here, but that's what I see this forum is for. Encouragement of each other and sharing information - POSITIVELY. I think you have experience and knowledge we could benefit from, we just don't want to have to weed through all the negative posts to find it.

[millionairstream]

I came here 2 years ago- and was hammered for suggesting another route- people called me lazy, that I wanted someone else to do the work for me.

I was so discouraged about helping people learn what I was learning, that I dropped off for a year- and am ready to go again. People in the aircraft industry laugh at the way the trailer people polish- am I wrong for showing it as a waste of time? That there is a better way, less damaging system, that takes 80% less man hours?

I've done it, seen it with my own eyes, performed it, and own what I wanted. I have done it with more than one trailer, and on more than just trailers- and I'm still the only one here who has invested the time and the money to do such a thing- unless another member has bought equipment- please let me know.

Even now- a moderator discourages the discussion. Read between the lines. I have absolutely no credibility- maybe when Uwe- who seems like the next person to step out of the 200 hour polishing box and try the way the pro's use- gets his story out- people will see the light...

There is a lot at stake- there is a small company that is supported by this cottage industry. They feel threatened that if the brainwashed minds that support them wander to a better way, they're going to lose out. So be it- I have no stake either way- I just see what the result and time taken was.

[millionairstream]

What more do you need? And these guys don't come for a month, they're in and out in a couple days- the right equipment makes it possible...

I think the P and S one was cleared after, thats what they seem to specialize in. Its not as shiny as a result.

http://www.pandstrailerservice.com/pics/Gorlesky001.jpg

Anybody know who Forrest Bone is? No, not Gump...

http://www.airmarktools.net/detailin...ulsa/bone.html

I don't see where the conflict or even a discussion is warranted, this is the way to go... But 25 hours instead of 150-200 is just my opinion and choice. I have a lot of other things to do besides shine my trailers- like camp?

[millionairstream]

Originally Posted by GreatPumpkin

You were joking about the weedwacker thingamajiggy, but what's out there already that could utilize a small stack of buffing wheels with a little re-engineering? Like I said earlier, my manual says straight line (rubbing with the grain) is best - I've done it and found it to be true. A buffing wheel mounted into my polisher and used on edge around the windows also works great.

Anyone tried an inline sander with a buffing pad? Probably moves to fast, but could one be altered to work slower? Airmark is patented I'm sure, but would it be possible to create a homemade version that would work with a standard air compressor? At a much lower cost?

Some weird and wild ideas maybe, but with a little discussion maybe the group could come up with something that will work. I'm fairly new here, but that's what I see this forum is for. Encouragement of each other and sharing information - POSITIVELY. I think you have experience and knowledge we could benefit from, we just don't want to have to weed through all the negative posts to find it.

I've rigged this up and stacked 3 pads- it works but its hell- still WAY better than a Cyclo, as the surface is treated the same way as a drum/barrel polisher works.

See the 2nd and 3rd photos down on the right side-

http://www.thepolishingguru.com/barryswebsite.html

The nice thing about it was that you could set up a piece of angle aluminum clamped to a bench or table, and use it to clean the pad very easily- and the pads wear very nicely. You get a LOT of use out of them, and NO swirl marks like with a rotating buffer head. He has a $29 Harbor Freight buffer, which maybe lasts him a year if he's lucky. You do NOT need to press hard or exert a lot of pressure on this system- look at Barry- no powerhouse, just an average guy with a little ingenuity..

[CanoeStream]

<Moderator hat on>

I have deleted a couple of messages in this thread as unnecessary and off-topic. These Forums are about sharing empirical information regarding our experiences and the experience of others regarding a variety of subjects. Just because someone is successful at an endeavor doesn't mean that it's appropriate; nor does a lack of perceived appropriateness make it necessarily wrong.

Please feel free to continue the discussion, but do it in such a way as to bring empirical evidence to it rather than trying to make judgement calls on the "rightness" or "wrongness" of using a specific item for a specific task.

Name calling, in whatever fashion it's done (through quotations or smileys or whatever) will not be tolerated.

<Moderator Hat off>