High Solids Clear Coat?

[AirHeadRik]

Has anyone simply cleared their AS with auto paint clear? Maybe a high solids, two part clear like "Tip Top Clear" or something?

[Inland RV Center, In]

Bambi's Dad

Automotive clear paints are fantastic materials.

Unfortunately, they are all designed to protect paint, since it can only be applied to a paint.

If you applied automotive clear coats to an Airstream, in 2 to 3 months, you can peel it off like a big sheet of plastic, sort of like glad wrap.

The clear coat paints are all designed to bond to a highly porous substrate.

Aluminum, is not high porous, compoared to paint.

Bottom line. Don't go there.

If it was OK, Airstream would have changed to it many years ago.

Andy

[somefun]

What kind of clear coat did/does Airstream use?

[Inland RV Center, In]

somefun

Airstream has a very special two part clear coat that is only available from them. I do not know what the basic formula conatains.

The original plasticoat in 1964 was vinyl based.

With the 1969 models they changed it to a lacquer based material.

A few years ago, they got together with PPG, who created a "long lasting" clear material, that could only be applied as the metal was processed. Airstream themselves, could not apply it.

Unfortunately, at a great expense to PPG and Airstream, that material turned out to be an absolute failure.

PPG went back to the drawing boards and more testing, and come up with another formula, that has now been used for several years without failures.

However, once again, it can only be applied as the metal is processed. Airstream themselves, does not have that material.

Therefore Airstream had a product created for after market sales.

It is "NOT" the same material that is on the new coaches.

Also, the plasticoat that is in the spray cans, is different as well.

Andy

[BOBHASTINGS]

Andy,

Every time I read one of your posts, I learn new things (which, I guess, isn't surprising considering the sandbar depth of my knowledge!!). I knew from previous posts that the plasticoat was a special concoction but I had no idea what went into it’s development.

You said: “…However, once again, it can only be applied as the metal is processed. Airstream themselves, does not have that material.
Therefore Airstream had a product created for after market sales.”

Is this aftermarket product something that the average schmoo can use? My brand new 25’ Safari got scraped on the left rear corner panel by some idiot SOB while in storage last winter! It looks like the coating was scrubbed with a wire brush. I’m hoping you or Airstream have a product that I can use to touch up these scratches. Anything like that in your inventory???

Thanks again for being willing to share your knowledge!

[Bob Thompson]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say there probably is a solution to the clearcoat problem out there someplace, but it just doesn't seem to have made it to Airstream mainstream. I see aluminum wheels clearcoated, aluminum hot rod and motorcycle parts with clear powdercoat, 18 wheeler tanker aluminum polished and coated, anodized aluminum towers used in saltwater fishing boats, aluminum sailboat masts, and I've used aluminum windsurfing parts for years with almost no corrosion, so there has to be a solution out there someplace.

Whether it is chromic conversion coating, acrylic or urethane clearcoat, nickel plating, or anodizing, its probably out there.

[AirHeadRik]

Yeah, I think the only way to use Auto Clear Coat on an AS is to first use an adhesion promotor or an etching solution. I have used adhesion promotor on aluminum, but generally the aluminum is painted after the adhesion promotor is applied, then cleared over the whole job. (see my painted aluminum flames on Monster House, episode #"Monster Club".)

Neither solution is great because even with the adhesion promotor, you have to scuff the surface a bit or the clear won't bite. As for expansion, no problem, the clears these days are being used on plastic parts on Quads and dirt bikes that all parts that bend.

Andy, thanks for your input. You are a gem on here! I need to give you a buzz on few parts this week or maybe come in soon.

[Bob Thompson]

Until a good clearcoat is found, this may help some:
http://www.tirerack.com/accessories/...x/wheelwax.jsp

[AirHeadRik]

Bob,

You are right, there are clears that can be used, but you do have to use an adhesion promotor or etch. This ruins the shine in either case. Now, I have sanded with a very fine sandpaper on aluminum and once it is cleared, it shines really well, but not like the shines we are used to seeing on an AS because on AS we use the natural shine.

Clears and paints today are amazing! I have buds that do airbrushing on Aquariums and fountains out of aluminim and fiberglass using House Of Kolor Urethanes and Tip Top clears and the paintings last and last even with constant water running over them. Like in this pic: or in this pic:

[Inland RV Center, In]

Bob Thompson.

Indeed there are several "clear coating materials" available.

The problem is that no one has ever applied any of those materials to an Airstream and then subject it to the "test of time".

Many things work on an Airstream, but for how long is always the big question.

Many times we hear from someone that has tried something different, in spite of negative advice. You cannot stop "a determined person".

But when the failure occurs, we never hear about it.

Airstream and PPG, in spite of their resources, learned that expensive lesson, on the second last plasticoat. Ask any owner that has one of those coaches.

Andy

[Bob Thompson]

I think the problem is one of creating crossover situations where one industry has solved the problem and it could be applied to the Airstream world. I found one post about clearcoating where a railroad line used "catalyzed waterborne polyurethane-acrylate". The person who was in charge of using it, Pete Bagley -West Coast, Reno, Nv., says, "It's VOC compliant, applies at 1.5 DFT and I have had excellent results on a west coast aluminum clad passenger railcar exposed to enviromental extremes on the rail line".

To me, it appears the application for railcars and Airstreams would be similar, so perhaps a call to Pete Bagley in Reno might find a solution for finishing Airstreams.

All I'm saying is you have to think outside the box if you're going to find solutions, in the same way Byam did when he first created the Airstream. By searching other industries, there probably will be a solution. The solution is not likely to come from within the Airstream community.

The quote above can be found at: http://www.finishing.com/1400-1599/1550.shtml

[ALANSD]

i have been using the Liquid Glass sealant on my AS now for two years, on the clearcoated areas and the lower part where i stripped off the grey paint, and left it uncoated. The sealant has held up very well. with a lot of shine and an obvious level of coating that can be seen and felt when you run your hand over it.
If I was going to polish mine I would try this as the final finish sealant.
When my new buffer arrives I will try to polsih out the lower areas to a higher level of gloss and apply this over it to see how the gloss is retained. On the clearcoated areas it looks amazingly good.

[Bob Thompson]

I am in the process of trying Liquid Glass to protect polished castings such as clearance light bases. I have also tried Zoop Seal which is much more expensive, $125 for the kit. The Zoop Seal did OK on some applications but only mediocre on others. I have no idea why! Maybe it was the way I was holding my mouth when I applied it! I won't be buying more Zoop Seal, but the Liquid Glass looks promising.

One of the primary reasons a good alternative clearcoat solution has not been found may be the economic viability issue. People polishing their Airstream are likely to be more frugal than a Railroad line trying to protect their showpieces!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Bob Thompson.

I agree with you.

My problem is time, or lack of it.

Staying on top of the "within Airstream box" is a huge challenge by itself.

Perhaps some others may wish to try and find a solution "outside the box".

I for one, would certainly most welcome a better answer.

Andy

[Bob Thompson]

One of the fine members of this forum was at an air show recently where someone was selling Evershield. He brought the product to my attention: http://www.aircraftfinishing.com/evershield.htm

The manufacturer's description:
AIRCRAFT FINISHING SYSTEMS EVERSHIELD is a two-component, ceramic clearcoat/chemical treatment system designed for Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEM) to protect the substrate over which it is applied from corrosion and oxidation. EVERSHIELD, when applied properly, will not yellow, chip, crack, or peel. If gouged or damaged, the finish will not experience creepage and is repairable. EVERSHIELD is designed to coat surfaces that require a durable, flexible, and solvent resistant thin coating that can withstand temperatures of 2,000 F. EVERSHIELD offers excellent coverage, durability, and corrosion protection as well as being a low VOC and EPA compliant coating. EVERSHIELD is applied clear and will dry clear. The stuff looks promising.

Does anyone have any experience with this product? It would be great to have some real world feedback on it. "Dan", The Forum member who saw it said it was not cheap but the finish was exceptional. He saw the stuff used on bare metal, galvanised metal, and aluminum. What he saw was very clear and slick too!

[Inland RV Center, In]

Bob Thompson.

We have ordered some of the Evershield material for testing.

It appears that it can out do Airstreams plasticoat.

The bad news is the cost. One quart from them costs $250.00, and a gallon is $950.00, plus shipping.

The good news is that one quart, "they say" will do a 31 foot Airstream trailer.
They suggest that you "do not" spray it on, but apply it with a fine roller such as you use on interior walls.

This certainly is cheaper than the Airstream plasticoat, which does have a waste factor, in that you must spray it on. Additionally, spray painting is not something that most people can do.

We will report back within a couple of weeks.

Andy

[bjond]

See http://alsacorp.com/products/mirrach...a_prodinfo.htm

[RichardT]

It sounds awsome, but if you cant burn it or get it off with Mek or thinner, how would you ever remove it if needed?

[Bob Thompson]

After reading the info on the Evershield, it seems clear that all caulking and sealing of the exterior of the trailer will have to be done before applying the Evershield. If the Evershield is as slick as they say, you will never get sealants to attach to it after it is on.

Along this same line of thinking, I need to express my findings on the sealants I've used. One year ago, I completed the caulking and sealing of my trailer using two products, Parbond and Seamer Mate. The Parbond I purchased from Vintage Airstreams and the Seamer Mate from Home Depot. The Parbond has done well in locations where it is out of the sunlight, such as behind the gravel guards. It looks fresh and near perfect. However, all other locations where it has been exposed to direct sunlight it has been a dismal failure. The exposed Parbond has shrunk, cracked, crazed and has taken on an "alligator back" appearance.

On the other hand, the Seamer Mate has performed perfectly. It looks almost as good as the day it was installed. It is still tightly bonded to the substrates and shows no sign of weathering. Its claim of being UV Resistant seems to be true.

Using Seamer Mate prior to applying the Evershield seems reasonable.

[Bob Thompson]

Here is picture of the Parbond (around window) and the Seamer Mate (along top of belt molding. The two were installed within a day or so of each other.