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Old 11-14-2003, 06:47 PM   #381
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Be carefull....

McMullen...

I am definately no mechanic, but you have to check load ratings of any wheel you use on a trailer. Inland had an article about it, you can check it out here

Good luck with your new rig. Looks like a diamond in the rough. Keep posting your progress pictures here. Looks like a fun project to follow.

I put up a small webpage of my polishing efforts. I need to get a better after picture when the Sun comes out, but you can get the idea. Check it out here.

I even put a little real video of the cyclo in action

Here's one more picture for you all. Note the polished tanks

Happy Holidays....
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Old 11-14-2003, 06:56 PM   #382
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Tires & rims & axles

There is also some question on your axles, from looking at the picture I suspect thay may be bad. There is a way to check them on the Inland RV web site.
Common problem on older trailers.

Garry
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Old 11-14-2003, 07:52 PM   #383
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I was wondering why my 68 Overlander International didn't come with wood paneling on the ceiling. I guess that's not wood.

On the SS-Nuvite debate, I found that on my roof, which I didn't strip, the SS worked a lot better than the Nuvite C. Perhaps SS works beter without removing the clearcoat. I ran out of SS today and will go back to nuvite for another comparison.

Safari Tim- On your lettering, were your letters 2-tone? Mine are grey with a raised unpainted trim around the letters. Did you paint the whole thing one color and not worry about the unpainted part? I was thinking about going to the blue, but didn't know if that would look funny.
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:28 PM   #384
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Thanks for the info on the wheels and axles Garry and Tim. By the way Tim the polished tanks and the rig look super. Whats the story on the axles. I haven't been under it but assumed they were just normal trailer axles the wheels I have are the right size and rated for 2400 lbs each so should handle it all wright. and I always run at least 6 plys, usualy small truck tires as long as I can run 50 lbs of air and they are not radials. I've even heard they run radials some on trailers now. I'll check it out. I'm an old fart and you know how we are. Some what set in our ways. The inside is another story. It smells so bad I can barely stand it. the stuff thats on everything is a mixture of cooking residue and cigerette smoke and even where I wash it it still looks kind of cream colered. and I think it should be white. Talk later Mac
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:44 PM   #385
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TBKP's Overlander

Safari Tim- On your lettering, were your letters 2-tone? Mine are grey with a raised unpainted trim around the letters. Did you paint the whole thing one color and not worry about the unpainted part? I was thinking about going to the blue, but didn't know if that would look funny.

My letters are raised, with a ridge around the outside. I used that as a guide for my razor knife and cut the masking tape around it. Then painted the inside of the letter with blue rustoleum. I don't think mine were ever two-tone.


McMullen

Thanks for the info on the wheels and axles Garry and Tim. By the way Tim the polished tanks and the rig look super. Whats the story on the axles.

Thanks! Gary will probably know more on the axles since he has determined he needs new ones. I'd rather live in denile The inlandrv site I pointed out before has a good explaination of duratorque axels and how to check them.
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:44 PM   #386
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Thumbs up Award~!

Safari Tim

You get the very 'First Award"~!!
Man, the work you've put in..Speaks volume~
I betcha you're smiling all around~!
As you have every right to~

Airstreamforums Polish Guru~#1
Let it be known that, Safari Tim, by his own sweat
and, long diligent hours have achieved a rare status among his peers~A true Airstream shinning knight~
Signed by:53FC
NOV 15,2003


ciao
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:29 PM   #387
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Smile Aw shucks....

Just trying to keep up with the rest of the club here!!

Glad to be done for a while to tell you the truth. Seems like with polishing there is always something more to do. Some parts not quite shinney enough or it could be gone over ONE more time....

You just have to decide, its good, stop!

Anyway, I did what I intended, got done with the marker lights installed before the rains, and its been raining the past couple of days....

I do want to offically thank, 53FC, Garry, flyshr, and all the others who chimed in with great complements, help, and insightful answers. It really added a whole new dimension to this job. It made it fun to share the work after doing it. It was a great help to stay focused, share ideas, and most of all the photos.

Thanks again

Any new comer, I would say this. Polishing is not hard, but it is time consuming and VERY dirty work!

More than a cyclo, you need patience

But it is worth it. I get to see it shining back at me everyday as I leave the house!
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Old 11-16-2003, 08:52 AM   #388
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Observations about SS & Nuvite/Cyclo-

Good day guys-
As mullen has stated his affinity for tools, and has never heard of a cyclo, it makes me wonder if caravanners are the only ones who use it and why.

I also never saw or heard of one until this forum.

I grew up around vintage aircraft that belonged to my Dad, who used sticks of rouge in varying abrasions, to shine his grumman and other neat old planes.

I've watched and studied throughout the SS scandal, this thread, and have looked at Airmarks system extensively.

I can say this with confidence- and newcomers who haven't invested a dime should do their own research, as the options vary- as do the results- there is no right or wrong way- but...

IMO-
The best results and the easiest to accomplish is definitely with Airmarks system- A 747 out of the sky for a period of a year on a slow polishing technique would cost millions in lost revenue- its superb, but $1000 for the tools is enough to scare most away, and the 25cfm will present a problem to the average home compressor owner.

There is a nice explanation of why SS and wet sanding are faster and easier available on the vintagetrailer group on yahoo.com and the decision to use a cyclo and the abrasive 1st steps are quite damaging- it explains that the reason it takes so long is that you actually scuff and damage the surface with a multitude of misdirectional swirls by using a revolutionary buffer or cyclo with the very coarse compound. Achieving the same results is possible by proper wet sanding with horizontal strokes that are easily removed with SS or another lighter polish. Starting with the least abrasive paper necessary will supposedly expose the fresh aluminum without all the damage that you have to spend so many hours removing from revolution and abrasion combined, and it also will remove any scratches and other imperfections in the skin.
The results of the SS appear fast and very easy, when properly prepped by whatever wet sanding is required- this method uses the least expensive tools, supplies, and takes the least amount of time and provides excellent results- not as fast and as perfect as the Airmark system, but for the money and time spent- looks very nice.

We saw with the chicago fellows who were giving us their demonstration of how great it was to use a cyclo, and also with you guys who have worked so hard on this thread, that a cyclo will provide some nice results if you have the time. But, if you didn't apply the coarse abrasives with a revolutionary turning tool, and the swirl marks weren't there to have to remove after doing so, how far would you be ahead of the game? It seems to create more work, and its not cheap.
This system- cyclo/nuvite, has a long time span in all the cases mentioned. I'd really like to see someone go start to finish with the wet sanding and SS and show us what it takes to get the results as well as you have. In chicago, a 22 foot caravan took about 90 hours or so- it came out nicely, but why so long?

Keep an open mind, explore the differences and try some other materials- there has to be a way to get the results faster and with less work- I look for some friendly disagreement on this to expose some differing options, and hopefully without the nastiness and name calling of the past. Cheers! Peter
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Old 11-17-2003, 11:44 PM   #389
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Smile More than one way for sure....

I agree there is more than one way to polish a trailer. We had several on this thread using nuvite as well as others using Southern Shine.

Both take a lot of work and a commitment to doing a good job.

Just looking at the pictures of polished trailers I tend to like the results of those who have used nuvite or rolite over the pictures I have seen of SS. But that is just my preference.

I don't think polishing is difficuilt, like I said before. It is very methodical and time comsuming, and dirty work.

As far as using wetsanding, from what I have read at Perfect Polsih You should not do that.

Quote
-----
There seemed to be a perfect mirror finish where we sanded to remove scratches and corrosion. Where we polished away the corrosion, the surface is uneven, but still a mirror.

However when we took the sheet out in the sun we could see that it was far from a perfect mirror finish. The surface was slightly cloudy wherever we use the 3M rubbing compound. And the area that we sanded carefully with the 600 and 1200 grit paper was clearly visible with a slight gray tone. It was almost as though the 3M rubbing compound and silicone carbide mud from the sandpaper had left something embedded in the surface. The areas where only the Nuvite had been used were clear and bright.

A solvent wipe and further polishing with Nuvite F-7 did not get rid of the discoloration. Finally the sheet was acid-washed with Alumiprep 33 and repolished with Nuvite S. The result was a true mirror finish with all discoloration gone. Apparently the acid was able to remove what the 3M compound and sand paper left behind.

------

I think I remember Garry having some direct experience with this.

The cyclo is considered a finishing polish after the compounding. If you don't mind the swirls you really don't have to use the cyclo. Look at my photos in this thread, I have not cyclo'ed my trailer yet.

It's all about personal preference. I would talk to those who used the products before you decide one way or another. But it seems in this thread, those who chose SS are leaning now toward doing their rigs again, perhaps with nuvite this time around.

Which ever you decide is fine. Just post your pictures and updates here to share with others!

One thing is universally true, you are required to own a digital camera when polishing
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Old 11-18-2003, 09:07 AM   #390
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3M COMPOUND

Good day-

To my knowledge and from what experience I have on aircraft- 3M rubbing compound is NOT highly recommended for aluminum. Its great for Fiberglass and painted surfaces that can be aggressively buffed- its a cutting compound- called super cut and tiger cut- because of its aggressive action.

Taking a cyclo and nuvite to an aircraft facility and saying you're taking away their wet 'n' dry sandpaper will not go over very well.

The really good thing about this forum, is to have a neutral party try the different systems, as I wouldn't believe the SS comparison anymore than I would the report by PP- both are selling me on their own system.

Everyone uses wet sanding as an accepted technique on aluminum- any polishing shop that polishes small parts will tell you that. The other alternative is to use the coarser grades of rouge bars on a drum or barrel polisher- such as the Airmark polisher.

I'm afraid that all the additional swirling from the extra steps with the coarse compound and buffers caused some of you a lot of extra work.

Has anyone done it the horizontal WS/ SS with coarse and soft 3M pads/ then foam pad way from start to finish?

I think Tims Overlander was changing over-

Curious as to the final results and the amount of time. Cheers! Peter
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Old 11-18-2003, 05:46 PM   #391
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Sanding & Polishing

Hello austreampete;
I used the Southern Shine polish, a course 3M pad for compounding and the the fine 3M pad for polishing. Had very few swirl marks. I have a Cyclo but din't care for it.
Only advantage I could see to the way I polished was it took fewer steps to get to a shine, on the other hand I feel the Nuvite way gives a deeper shine. I plan to order some Nuvite and give it a try just to see if it really is worth the additional steps.

I also used sandpaper found it really speeded things up and was easy to polish out as long as you only sanded in one direction. Started with 1200 and then 2000. Only once did I have to start with 600 and it scratched pretty bad and took a lot more effort to clean it up. On the difficult spots I mostly just used 1200 wet sanding and SS to polish it out.
I suspect everyone that polishes reinvents the wheel until they find what is best for them.
Good luck on your project. Be careful it can end up being a new way of life.

Garry
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Old 11-18-2003, 07:10 PM   #392
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600, 1200, 2000-

Good day,
From my experience, and also whats been said by others, you've started very lightly, which is hopefully because you judged that to be all that was necessary after inspecting the finish on your caravan.

What worries me about the hard compounding, is that the people doing it may not need to be going as deep to enter the level that is necessary to clean off the layer of aluminum that is no longer shiny- which is basically the action we're doing. Additionally, if you sand it in a horizontal motion as you said, it should come back relatively easily, not true with the mis-directional swirl marks.

It seems as if the PP way is to assume that the client knows nothing and can not judge where they can start and just attack it, tear it down, and then work hard to build it back.

The Airmark system will outshine them all, and doesn't use any liquid or paste products- just old fashioned rouge bars.

Light wet sanding is obviously quicker and less damaging than compounding- just takes some judgement and trial and error- lets hope not too much error! Cheers! Peter
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Old 11-18-2003, 11:24 PM   #393
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I havent tried to polish my Airstream Yet but Im sure I will eventualy. However I have quite extensive knowledge in polishing aluminum and steel and stainless and brass. When you sand, grind or polish aluminum you remove the layer of oxydation. This layer is basicly 1 atom thick. it is the layer that is formed emediatly after the underlying atoms are exposed. Aluminum oxide is the same material that Rubys are made from or the grit on aluminum oxide sand paper. It is basicaly a very tough hard substance. By the time it gets dull enough to need polishing it is many atoms thick. If for instance you try to just polish off the hard suface, the polishing wheel will cut through here and there and make a very rough and wavey surface. so you have to cut the hard oxydation of with something as hard or harder than it is, AND something that is on a hard substrate so as to keep the surface smooth over a large area. Wet sanding with a block will do that job. Componding will do that job. I personaly think that wet sanding with a medium hard back up will do the job faster than the compounding , but I havent done this exact job yet. Then you have the low spots caused by rivits and small dents. thes would probably be removed better by compounding. so I will be prepaired to use every available way of cutting and polishing the oxydation off with much forthought. Mac
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Old 11-19-2003, 06:03 AM   #394
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Cool Just got back

Safari Tim
I see while I was away on a trip.(down to Va Beach)
Hmmm..
Thanks for your reply..I could not have said it better.
I do see that there's several points mention by austreampete, that needs clarification.
But, first..I have to run my Burb to the garage..exhaust manifold needs to be looked at..

ciao
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Old 11-19-2003, 10:09 AM   #395
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Clear Coat

Since we are getting comments from folks that "haven't been there" I thought I would add what seems to be missing from their comments.
The first step is to remove "all" the clear coat and this will impact the resulting effort required to polish your A/S. An area that may seem ok with no clear coat can have some risidual clear coat that will not compound out, can be sanded but you end up over sanding into areas you shouldn't have had to sand and cost a lot of extra time. Tim also ran into some other problems with tiny spots that wouldn't polish into a good shine with out a LOT of extra work. Everone doing the polishing has run into something unique that required experiminting to resolve. If you read thru this thread you will get some ideas of how we dealt with these problems and sharing our ideas to others that are thinking about undertaking the polishing effort.
The first step is very important in the over all effort and I believe there are as many options on removing clear caot as there is to polishing.
However; I don't think an Airmark is a reasonable solution to the DIY since you could have the polishing done by a profesional for the cost of the Airmark equipment.

Garry
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Old 11-19-2003, 12:14 PM   #396
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Garry-

Good day,
I appreciate what you say, and you're right about the diferences- its been explained that everyones caravan is from a different area, has had different exposures etc.

You have a very new caravan- considering that pre '64 had no clear, and many others as well. I've been looking at Spartan Manors, which have a fantastic construction, far superior to an Airstream, and also have no clear.

I've also never seen clear on any aircraft- I'm not saying its not possible, but I've never seen it, and because of the maintenance it requires- as you've shown.

It does however appear to preserve the skin, to an extent, and I assume that your job was easier than someone polishing a skin that was neglected and from 1947.

I also say that a caravan owner who wishes to make life simpler, is far better served to take on the Airmark system. Its 1/3 the cost of having it polished, and you'll own it for life, and can use it yearly to touch up and re-polish much faster and easier.

Your caravan would cost roughly $3000 to have polished by a real pro- not a start up novice with a cyclo who is looking for a way to make ends meet. The results from a barrel or drum polisher are incredible, and should be less strain on the skin, due to the fact that they leave no swirling from compound.

I asked my brother who has a better memory than I, about our Dads planes and the wet sanding around rivets. He said he used a block sometimes but held the paper in his palm and allowed his fingers to spread open and flow around and into the rivets and the light compression, and said it was no problem.

Mac certainly has a good handle on the polishing aspect as well. Polishing caravans isn't something exclusive- its a very limited market. Polishing of all metals and parts is quite a large industry, and if someone has polished an air cleaner from a 1967 Triumph Tiger, its basically the same knowledge that goes into a caravans skin, just a slightly different application- and a lot less time involved.

I'd like to hear Mac's opinion of the Airmark as opposed to the cyclo as a polishing tool.

Cheers! Peter.
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Old 11-19-2003, 01:22 PM   #397
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Peter I havent a clue what an Airmark is unless its a brand name for some industrial tool . Please put a picture and small definition on your next Letter. Mac
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Old 11-19-2003, 02:54 PM   #398
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www.airmarktools.net

Air driven barrel/drum polisher- made specifically for polishing aircraft skin.

Had you ever heard of a cyclo before?

I can say that we have drum polishers in Australia, but no cyclos that anyone has ever seen or heard about.

Read about them on the site and using your knowledge of polishing in general give us a neutral opinion. Cheers! Peter
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Old 11-19-2003, 05:36 PM   #399
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Please~!

austreampete
Quote:
caravan
Pete, do me a favor~
Please refer to our Airstream for what it is..an Airstream, not an caravan...Yuck~

After all, this is an American Icon~

thanks..
ciao
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Old 11-19-2003, 05:57 PM   #400
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Gary You mentioned that my axles may need replaced from looking at the picture. Today I crawled under there and checked them and Your right they average about 5 to 7 degrees below the frame , with the trailer empty. I'm quite sure with water and food and all the other stuff They will be flat or worse. well Ive got more time than money and a well equiped machine shop so I will probably adapt some sort of booster springs. probably small air bags. If I do you'll all see the pictures next year. Mac
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