anyone broken down and tried airmark tools

[TravelCloud]

Originally Posted by Ken J

Ok......

I've been following this polishing stuff for about 7 years - go back into the archives and do your research.

I stand by what I say - don't know how anyone could say that something rotating on a surface will not cause heat - ever hear of rubbing two sticks to make a fire?

I am reluctant to say much more - I'm very familer with Jim Weston (owner of Airmark) and his products - I'm also very aware of Nuvite (and Perfect polishing) and I'm very familer with Rollite - they are all fine products

Best of luck to you

Ken J.

Ken- I've done some research on the archives- enough to know there is something for sale that is not for me. I don't find anyone posting that they've polished a trailer in 3 days using nuvite and a cyclo. I also see that whenever there is a different suggestion made- that are taken from legitimate people polishing other aluminum products- aircraft, motorcycles, trucks, boats, etc., as well as trailers- they are immediately attacked and shut down. Its often the same style of guerilla attack, with several of the same people pumping the cyclo and nuvite mantra.

My question to you is this- if you are very familiar, (familer?) with someone who owns airmark, perhaps you can gather a statement for us on the heat and the 2 sticks rubbing together. I'm sure that some minor heat is generated, but ask him to fire the person I spoke with, Brian, if its more than that, for making fraudulent statements and misleading potential clients. Also ask that owner if he takes 150-200 hours when polishing. I was told they come out and take a day to strip and remove all the lights and prep, 2 days to polish and replace everything and its about $3800 for the service. Maybe they secretly use cyclos and don't tell anyone.

Remember how this thread was started- someone saying that the cyclo and nuvite are killing him. Some are telling him to live with it- I'm only saying that I'm not an expert, but am seeking the same solution he is. That "no pain, no gain" thing some are pushing is not factual. And someone says that a cyclo is a remake of a 1940's antiquated Sears Kenmore home polishing kit. Times have changed- I'm looking for the latest and greatest, not a has been.

And thanks for your suggestion of going back into the archives, as well as your wish for my luck!

[Ken J]

This all sounds very familer to me............... Someone lashing out at those of us who have done a lot of polishing by someone who has never polished.

Anyway, a bit of history - I never said there was anything wrong with Airmark - they do a very nice job and they are highly regarded in the Airstream community.

Early on, Airmark was the polish of choice - I remember Jim Weston warning us about burning the skin - with or without his equipment. Not a terribly bad thing because after it cools you can go back and repolish and in most cases repair the damage.

So many of us used their products - air and power. I have some of there polish sitting in my garage - I've used it.

Then Rollite came along - most of us liked it better
Then Nuvite came along - most of us liked it better.

I've used all three - I'll stick with Nuvite with a Rollite sealer

So don't sit there and lecture us about change...... you will find we are open to changes and none of us particularly like spending hundreds of hours polishing our trailers - In my case, Nuvite has been the quickest, best method. If I were to buy the Airmark tools - I would still use Nuvite. My original warning was, in my opinion, Airmark is more of a high speed process - best left to those who do polishing (like on 747's) for a living.

I suggest you use whatever method suits you best - no one is telling you what to on your trailer - we were asked a question and a couple of us who have polished a lot reponded in the spirit oh helping. So I think if you want to sand your trailer, coat it with acid, polish it with high speed polishers - you will be done in a couple of hours and hopefully you will be please with your results.

Let we said to the last person that responded like you - let us know how it turns out.

We have yet to hear back..............

[InsideOut]

I'm not dismissing the fact that the Airmark System is a superior polishing method, obviously it is if the airlines use it on the 747s. It's just I don't think it's practical for an individual to go out and purchase everything you need for a single trailer. As I added it up, it'll cost someone approximately $9075 to get the buffers, accessories, pads, compounds you would need to do your first trailer....assuming you already own a air compressor capable of running this equipment at the proper speeds.

That coupled with the need for a gigantic air compresor (70 CFM Delivery at 100 PSI) which on the Airmark website costs $6375 on it's own - none of the attachments included. Now if you already have an air compressor capable of running this equipment you do save that $6375.

The cost for a one time polish is HUGE! Even if you take into account the time saved...Heck, that's more than 4 times the cost of my trailer! If someone were planning on making a business out of it...it might pencil out, but most of us are just hobbists.

Shari

[Safari Tim]

Originally Posted by TravelCloud

Possibly the next time you polish, you'll use another system that will be cheap enough that you can ebay your cyclo and use the money to pay for the entire jobs supplies and have it done in 3 days like these other folks are doing...

Nothing more I like more than seeing a polished trailer. Can't wait to see yours!

Don't forget to post progress reports over the three days!

[TravelCloud]

Yes of course you hear something familiarbecause there are more than your way to do things- and as you say- its high speed and the best solution for some people is to have a nice job quickly- not to spend 150-200 hours with old designs and slow machines. The polish is by choice- but the rouge base is the same- unless they have some space age system of making rouge.

I'm not swearing by any system- but as the starter of this thread says- its killing him. I'm only stating facts- when someone chooses another system and polish- people gang up and attack. Don't make it sound like I'm talking from a throne of superiority- I've simply stated facts, to which you say are untrue. Prove it- call them and ask for a letter stating that their tools and pads burn. That was what I said to you- remember? Don't change things for your argument to appear differently, and don't say that I'm lashing out at you just because I'm calling you on it. The same company said differently than you say someone who you claim to be familiar(familer?) with, so just back it up with proof. And I also undertsand that burning the skin stretches and warps it- possibly removing a layer of pure aluminum "cladding" that is applied, so I'll respectfully disagree with your "fact" on that as well.

You also claim that you and others have done a lot of polishing- how many trailers is "a lot" exactly? I saw a guy doing 2 in 1 month in his spare time at the airport, and they took less than a week each...

And should someone have not responded to you after being bashed as you are commencing with me- I wouldn't be surprised- especially when the others start chiming in- which I suppose should be expected very soon. Not to worry- I'm a mental strength expert, your bantering and trickery aren't having the same effect. Just deal in facts and the truth will surface- so far your facts are not working well- read back. You said that airmark burns- then you said its the polish, then you said its no big deal. Which is it?

Oh, and thanks for the enlightenment on the history of polishing.

[Ken J]

I wish you well with your project................

[TravelCloud]

Originally Posted by InsideOut

I'm not dismissing the fact that the Airmark Sysem is a superior polishing method, obviously it is if the airlines use it on the 747s. It's just I don't think it's practical for and individual to go out and purchase everything you need for a single trailer. As I added it up, it'll cost someone approximately $9075 to get the buffers, accessories, pads, compounds you would need to do your first trailer....assuming you already own a air compressor capable of running this equipment at the proper speeds. Heck, that's more than 2-1/2 times the cost of my trailer!

That coupled with the need for a gigantic air compresor (70 CFM Delivery at 100 PSI) which on the Airmark website costs $6375 on it's own - none of the attachments included. Now if you already have an air compressor capable of running this equipment you do save that $6375.

The cost for a one time polish is HUGE! Even if you take into account the time saved...Heck, that's more than 3-1/2 times the cost of my trailer! If someone were planning on making a business out of it...it might pencil out, but most of us are just hobbiests.

Shari

Ah yes- I've seen where you are the moderator defender of the "only" system that you also fell prey to in the past. Will I too be hammered and removed for not going along with the norm?

The amount of polish and choice of polish is the same regardless of tool choice. I'm told its figured on square footage. I've seen results from home made polish- it works, Wet sanding also works- I've posted pics and will again when I see more, which will be before I've chosen my method and taken the 3-4 days to do it.

I respectfully disagree with your cost figures. Yes they do sell a very high tech compact compressor. To run one of these, I was told that 25cfm at 90psi was adequate for constant use. More lies from Brian and the person at Spec? Perhaps.

I suggested that a compressor could be rented- Nation Rents has a trailer compressor- will run 3 or more of these at once. Its made for jack hammers and costs $60 a day. Take it for the weekend and a day and you have less than $200 added in. Slightly less than $6300 and no storage problem.

I'm not looking at the premium system- I'm interested in a rebuilt one, and they're about $800. If I can buy it once and use it many times, save 150 hours the first time. If I charged what I make an hour- ridiculous. But lets be realistic- I'll figure it at $15 an hour- what a decent worker would charge in my area, and thats $2250!

So- cyclo vs airmark- on a realistic time/tool material comparison.

cyclo- $275, man hours- 200 @ $15 per- $3000, total job cost- $3275.
airmark- $800, man hours on a VERY high scale- 50 @ $15- $450, compressor rental- $200, total job cost- $1450.

Over TWICE as much- thats HUGE! The savings are compounded yearly when you go over it, or lend it to friends.

All that time I could be spending with my family and camping is worth more than the money, and the job comes out without the damage and removal from the coarse grades of polish that occurs with compounding.

Pretty simple to me- but I'll still probably use the buffer.

[Safari Tim]

Like the old Nike advertisment...

Just do it!

[InsideOut]

Originally Posted by TravelCloud

Will I too be hammered and removed for not going along with the norm?

Nope...do whatever you want, it's your trailer & wallet.

Shari

[Ed Starman]

Im still going at it with nuvite and my drill.. One thing I can say is that eventually I will have a polished trailer..My neighbors all think I am insane (ive never given them reason not too). I was just hoping maybe someone had purchased Airmarks smaller polisher and gone at it.. im not so sure I want to be the guinea pig here. I feel better using what so many of you have used with great results. Like ive read here before the more work the better the shine.
For me these forums have been a blessing. A wealth of information and people who are willing to share there experience. So I dont have to make mistakes that could be avoided. I also must say that the more shine I get on my trailer the more satisfaction im getting. I will post some more pics on here soon... Thanks again for all your help.

[ALANSD]

Airmark did the two 79 Motorhomes we had at our rally last weekend. They were done 4 years ago and except for some minor clouding which was easily repolished, they still look terrific.
Bottom line is do what you want with your money and time and effort. Then post a photo or two for all to see.
Who really cares what opinion you have of the methods others use to polish..its silly to go on about it.
Get out and polish brother, or don't.

[Ed Starman]

Once I get it all compounded it will be alot easier. I found the cyclo really easy to handle.. really starting to see light at the end of the tunnel... But like the last post said... It doesnt get done by reading about it only...Any method you have to get down and dirty

[Safari Tim]

Ed that looks great.

I know what hard work it is to do one. And your's is 4 feet longer than mine!

But your efforts really shine through!

[Ed Starman]

Thanks Tim...I have a long way to go.. But neighbors are starting to stop while im working on it and giving me encouragement.. There is an inside rv storage near me...Its pretty expensive like 275 a month but im thinking it would be worth every penny.. Ive been paying 100 a month for 4 months and have never taken it there even once...I cant work on if its not at my house hehe. My interior is almost complete except the drapes, cushions and bathroom floor. after polishing for a while any other work on the trailer should be a walk in the park.. well almost hehehe

[Ken J]

Ed

Looks really great! I keep both my trailers in covered strorage - I usually do a once a year update on the polishing - on my 75, I do a once per year update - could go every other year since it rarely gets wet. The 58 will get polished for the first time this summer - so I think the covered stoarge is the way to go if there is anyway you can do it. I do know others who do not keep there trailers under cover - I think the once per year is a must - so a little more maintenance. It also very much depends on your climate - its very dry here.

Ken J.

[3Ms75Argosy]

Hey Ed... you've got that California Shine going on!

I too have been polishing my Argosy. I'm using the wool pads and some 3M polishing compound (medium grit). I seems to work well, the only glaring problem is that i've found that the paint left just the faintest bit of layers on after the stripping in some areas. I'll have to go back and restrip again, to get the film completely off. So how does it work?

I'd call it the 10ft shine right now. Some areas (the front under the windows) looks about what I see with the nuvite. Other areas (especially with the film residue), the shine is not nearly as clear as what I see on this site from our members. However, it is going fast. I've got about 4 hours into it, and I'm about 2/3 done around the trailer. After I strip again, I'll compound and think about doing a finish polish with fine grit and foam pads. I'm looking for the minimalist shine!

From a distance, it's looking good. Pictures you ask.... I'm going shopping soon for another digital camera. My Nikon broke.
All my money is in the trailer!
New intellipower
Plumbing
Shine
bathroom remodel
etc...
Shine costs so far..
Black and Decker 1/2" drill (love it!) $29.00 at the B&D outlet store.
Bonnet kit (wool, and foam pads + backer plate) + 1 bottle of 3M compound $59.00
Pad adapter from Perfect polish $6.00
I have though about getting the nuvite sampler pack and comparing. I'm sure it will do a better job. But I'm so cheap!
Marc

[TravelCloud]

Not that I've done it- as the people who have shined "lots" of trailers will quickly jump on- but have witnessed this first hand. I'm also on the "gotta be a cheaper way" bandwagon.

Rouge sticks are between $7 and $12 each. Red is coarse, Green- finer, White- even finer. Take one- usually it seems that the green or white will suffice- and put it in a sock. Tie the sock in a knot and back over it with a car or trucks tire. Once its in smaller pieces, take the sock and hammer the smaller pieces into powder- pulverize them. Dump it into a can and as you need it, pour it into a bottle- 50/50 or 60/40 with mineral spirits- depending on how think you want it. Shake it up- or blend it in a blender and use it for your polish. No label, home made, a stick makes about a gallon of polish, and for next to nothing you have the same thing...

Easier to try that than get so heavily invested with these other products. All are made of rouge anyway!

I also have a nice Milwaukee buffer- holds the big pads. If you want to get the same type, they sell one at Harbor Freight that was on sale for about $30.

I saw an Argosy here in town that someone was polishing, but the top ends were black- can they be polished?

[Ed Starman]

It would save alot of money using the rouge bars.. but not any time. I too have that milwaukee variable speed buffer. Seems to work well. But Even with the finest of polish or rouge bars. the big wool pad will leave swirls. I did a few panels with my cyclo and sweatshirt with Nuvite c and s. and it was amazing how the swirls disapeared. It seemed that the sweatshirt loaded up too fast. Maybe I was using too much polish. but when it loads up then it scratches also. I also tried some polish by hand with a microfiber rag. didnt look good.
Thats why I was interested in Airmark tools. Im not as concerned with the money as I am with my time... Sure the Nuvite is expensive but the results are worth it. I did a test area with some rouge and it scratched heavily.
So for now im sticking with the nuvite. But I have a call into airmark. Even if that tool would require using the cyclo afterwards it would still be worth it. The compounding in alot of areas on mine requires 4-5 passes. time consuming.
if there is a cheap and easy way to polish I think the results will be poor.. and I want people to take a double take when they see my trailer...
Im game for an expensive but easy way to polish with an awesome finish..

[TravelCloud]

My research showed that there are coarse and soft pads, which can be followed by foam for additional swirl removal. If the rouge is cutting too hard- its possible to go to the next finer one- from red to green or green to white and check that. 3M makes the pads that looked best, but also a few other companies made less expensive ones- I liked the double sided approach- makes sense and is more cost effective.

I also recall both Airmark and Spec saying that they sell 2 different pads, coarse and fine, and that NO cyclo is needed. Most of the pro people I've asked have said its not used professionally. I think if a person has the strength to wax by hand, they shouldn't need a cyclo- the amount of strength to use a buffer/grinder is not that demanding. That "hobby person" ploy seems to scare people away from using well accepted tools into buying something specific, but not necessary.

I've never used one- but the man at the airport said "its really slow- just sort of wobbles around and takes forever" which I suppose explains the 150-200 hours, when they do one in a few days.

I think the microfiber rag would not be able to remove the polish with enough speed to move the metal- more for finishing up and cleaning it. 3M has some nice rags for that as well- softer than a cloth diaper! Good luck.

[3Ms75Argosy]

is what I've read. You are right about the cost / shine thing Ed. Although I've gone cheap, it is by no means as pure a shine as what you and others have done with the cyclo. I think the Airmark drum, because it goes in one direction only, conditions the metal with only one way marks. The compounder with rotation gets multiple directional marks, which would cause the reflections to bend, creating the swirl pattern in the sun.

I've thought alot about what makes the cyclo and drum work so well. The cyclo simulates the hand pattern...small contact spots with realitively firm pressure. That's why, when you test your polish with a rag and hands, you cut into the metal so well. It takes a lot more pressure spread out over the rotational pad to cut as well with a drill / polisher. The Airmark, by comparison, puts a small contact area into a long surface area, creating a fast, larger cut (IMHO).

I am partly serious about designing a "do it yourself" conversion of a weedwacker. I don't see how a gas one with a drum and bonnet attached would be much different then the Airmark tool. I just don't have the fabrication skills neccessary to make one.

I personally would love to try one out!
Marc