What were they thinking????????

[OTRA15]

Thanks Larry for the confirmation. I have praised the new search function probably 40-50 times in different posts/threads, but even this simple suggestion seems to have gone over the heads of most . . .



My guess is that the use of phones and small tablets has become so ubiquitous that advice -- based on using a real computer, with a screen, keyboard and mouse -- does not translate well to the phone/tablet folks. Also I have seen some replies about the AirForums App not showing as much info [e.g., a poster's ID info to the left].

The pervasive migration to quicky apps and mini-screens, is just further dumbing down of the populace IMO -- but let's not open up that can of woims . . .



Thanks again for your observation.

Peter

Originally Posted by lsbrodsky

"PS -- The new search function in the blue-bordered box, at the top of the page, works great, in contrast to the old search function in the blue menu bar above. FYI and FWIW. "

Peter, how true and flies in the face of people complaining about the poor search function!

Larry

[Rich W]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Heya - what's worse is when the little thermostat sensor wire falls into the wall next the fridge and constantly reads 85 degrees

I have the same issue with my 30'. Poor placement of the main room thermostat lead.....

If it's still down there, are you able to put some stiff wire (unplug the trailer) down there and fish it out? I've been able to route house wiring by using some 12 AWG wire in the walls. It's takes patience but it can be done.

[cazual6]

Originally Posted by Protagonist

Hey! I resemble that remark!

When I worked for a living, I lived by the famous Engineer's creedo: "If it ain't broke, keep fixing it until it is."

In my Airstream Interstate, the thermostat for the A/C and furnace is mounted directly behind the rear television. Luckily the television is on a swing-away mount and can be moved away from the thermostat.

I do not believe it was an engineer who decided where to place the thermostat. I believe it was an interior designer.

I concur

[Vich]

I spent 35 years of my career cleaning up engineer puke. I am quite sure that all engineers need to report to a boss that is NOT an engineer but has a use and ownership degree in common sense and pride in the final build. This is not done much anymore. The best example that I can think of right now is what happened after the U.S. Navy Submarine Thrasher went down after coming back out to sea after being maintained in port. After that 1/3 of the crew stayed in port, being replaced by a lottery of people who worked on it. Now the workers have an real interest in doing it right, or die ( as they most likely should ). If Airstream wants to be the best, it needs to actually earn that.

Vic H

[Protagonist]

Originally Posted by Vich

I spent 35 years of my career cleaning up engineer puke.

You best be careful there, pardner. Them's fightin' words!

Engineers are like anybody else in any profession, individuals. Some are good at what they do. Others, not so much. If you worked with the "not so much" group for 35 years, then you have my condolences. But don't assume we're all like that!

[knunut]

They have been putting temp sensors behind Television's or other odd places for year's.

[gr.austin]

I am a mechanical engineer for 40 years. I do agree that most engineers have no idea as to what they are designing or why. Just git er done. Before I started designing stuff I had to fix and maintain the existing stuff for one year (training). I was then allowed to work with industrial designers to see how the human factor affected the design, then I was put into manufacturing to see how things were produced and finally I got to design new stuff. The AS engineers need a lot of help. They are not given the resources (time, education, training, cost analysis) to do even a mediocre job. The AS should give the customer what he pays for. Today the customer is only getting about $.50 for every $1.00. My AS Classic is like my first Ford car. I have to Fix Or Repair Daily.

Happy Streaming

[AstroBruce]

Originally Posted by h2ocoolerman

I have the same issue. Also the wall gets quite warm from the fridge. Was thinking of disconnecting the remote sensor and using the thermostat sensor for both zones.

That's what I did. Works great with front or rear, or both. With both sensors connected, no matter how I set the thermostat, one AC would always do all the work.

Bruce

[hhendrix]

One of our members here has a byline that I love:

"Engineering, finding complex solutions to simple problems you never knew you had."

[jamieb1086]

Speaking of submarines (USS Thresher, that accident was tragic), I was able to spend 4 days submerged in the USS Wyoming, a ballistic missile submarine and the most powerful weapon on earth, as part of a US Navy "Tiger Cruise." I was able to do this as my son was an officer on that boat. All I did was spend all that time in awe of the incredible engineering and manufacturing prowess in the development of that magnificent machine.
The engineers who designed that boat are nothing short of geniuses (not to short the brilliant young men running it). I marveled at every square inch of that thing.
For a living I fly a Gulfstream V jet, another piece of engineering genius.
I will give you that the engineers who design Airstreams are not in as critical a design environment as those who designed the machines above. But for the most part, man, I love my Airstream and it sure beats hands down any SOB.
But engineers? The best. Where would we be without them?

[jamieb1086]

Oops and sorry, I forgot, my thermostat works great!

[alano]

I'm with Protagonist - I've been an engineer for 40 years and have worked with many talented individuals. AS's failure here is probably more related to the lack of a properly functioning CAPA (corrective action, preventative action) system. This fault has been discussed for years. With a proper functioning CAPA system, AS would log the customer complaint, identify the root cause, and implement a fix. Does AS have a CAPA system at all? Not sure, I couldn't even tell if they were ISO 9001 compliant.

I also doubt AS employs many engineers for their cabin design. Skilled technicians, CAD jockeys and interior design folks are probably the main players IMHO.

[Jekerrville]

Alano, you hit the nail on the head!

All the good folks at JCO work their butts off every day to build the beautiful beasts we love, hate, rebuild and pay out the wazoo to own. From 7AM to 5PM all these folks are taking raw materials and in a few days turn out our AS's.
They need to be commended for what they do, and do relatively well by hand, mind you. There are only two computer controlled routers in the whole plant!

BUT, burn in testing, closed loop modification of procedures, statistics on success or failure of subsystem, incorporation of field improvements to work in process??, forget it. It does not happen at Jackson Center, Ohio.

I have been there and watched the process of parts and pieces to finished machines and there is fit it, stick it, shoot a screw in it, glue it, buck it, caulk it, fill it furniture and equipment, see it light up and ship it. The only real quality control test is the leak test.

The shell on frame is really put into a rain test structure and blasted from all sides with water and tested for leaks! If it does not pass inspection, it goes to the side for fixing until it passes and moves to the interior appointments. It never stops moving. 90 units a week. (By the way, the windows, doors, sky lights, AC and such are not in at the rain test, just place holders.

The place is a bee hive. But complete burn-in system testing, NOT.

That step is called PDI (Pre- Delivery Inspection) and it's done by the dealer. So if the thermostat is in a goofy place the customer has to place an adjustment tool "boot or shoe" in the hind side of the sales manager and the sales manager has to pass that "encouragement" to the factory and with enough encouragement the production staff changes the placement of the stat in the correct place.

I truly believe the production staff really really care about the quality and preformance of Airstream travel trailers and Interstate vans.

The weak link in this whole closed loop system is Robert Wheeler. But he too has limits on what he can do because he answers to the Board of Directors. There in lies the failing component. Only the stockholders can repair the defective parts.

The 1,400 folks in Jackson Center, of which most work for or support Airstream, truly do a fantastic job in a wonderfully kept town. If they could move the thermostat, or change the other obvious weird design and manufacturing flaws, they would be on it!

But, it is beyond their pay grade. The engineer, CAD and interior design folks do there part relative well.

And I say all of this after having a maladjusted Alde system, failed heat pump, failed shower wand, loose counter top, malfunctioning Firefly system and a tire and wheel shear away from the brake drum and rip a 18 inch tear up the side of the vehicle! And this was after only 9 days from taking delivery of a brand new 2017 Classic.

BUT, those good folks at Jackson Center fixed every damn defect and even caught a defective converter and replaced it too! Buck riveted a complete panel mind you. Those people are awesome.

All the best from a dry part of Texas.

[OTRA15]

Great points in the last two posts, thanks!

It is amazing [IMO] that the Basecamp roll-out has not prompted a Thor stockholder action per your comment below.

Originally Posted by Jekerrville

. . .
The weak link in this whole closed loop system is Robert Wheeler. But he too has limits on what he can do because he answers to the Board of Directors. There in lies the failing component. Only the stockholders can repair the defective parts.
. . .

Wonder what Wally Byam would say about the current QC?

[PatLee]

Hi,
Smart move. Could you be more specific about exactly where they placed the sensor so I can emulate this!
Thanks!
Pat

[TravlinMan]

Originally Posted by OTRA15

The pervasive migration to quicky apps and mini-screens, is just further dumbing down of the populace IMO -- but let's not open up that can of woims . . .

Hey now.... Some of us ain't got computers! So the phone is the only way we could access this forum.

Course, I ain't got 2 acs either. Or a TV set.

My single thermostat works great.

[PatLee]

I keep hoping that the Airstream folk with decision-making authority at Jackson Center are assiduously following the inputs provided by AS owners on this forum. They should regard these inputs as "gold" - FREE gold because it is direct-from-the-field inputs they can use to continuously improve the processes that build quality into Airstreams. And that ensures they thrive and endure in the RV marketplace - the product keeps getting better and better and the buyers, happier and happier. A virtuous circle. I would love to see their core values statement. Is quality on there? Do they have a bona fide quality engineer.

[OTRA15]

Originally Posted by TravlinMan

Hey now.... Some of us ain't got computers! So the phone is the only way we could access this forum.
. . .

. . . and, as you have shown, the phone can handle the tasks when in capable and creative hands . . . wasn't referin' to you . . .

[MelGoddard]

Engineer: a person that turns great concepts into malfunctions.

"You can always tell an engineer, but you can't tell them much"!

On the other subject; my 25' FC came to me with a number of 'issues' that needed to be addressed; and they were.
By the dealer.

My 30' FC came to me almost perfect.
Everything worked, and still does.
I'm putting it on 'The Market', end of Oct. and someone will get a good one.

[uncle_bob]

Originally Posted by PatLee

I keep hoping that the Airstream folk with decision-making authority at Jackson Center are assiduously following the inputs provided by AS owners on this forum. They should regard these inputs as "gold" - FREE gold because it is direct-from-the-field inputs they can use to continuously improve the processes that build quality into Airstreams. And that ensures they thrive and endure in the RV marketplace - the product keeps getting better and better and the buyers, happier and happier. A virtuous circle. I would love to see their core values statement. Is quality on there? Do they have a bona fide quality engineer.

Hi

Based on what I've seen, roughly 95% of the world's companies have zero data on social media feedback on their products. The exceptions are to a great extent companies that are in the social media business or are closely tied with those companies.

Why?

Go to Wall Street and say "we just set up a new department" and the stock goes down. Say, "we just eliminated an entire department" and the stock goes up. The issue does *not* stop at the CEO's desk.

Bob