What does it cost to buy and renovate a vintage Airstream?

[hissilver]

Seriously, a renovation is expensive, time consuming, frustrating, nerve racking, and for the most part worth it. I just finished my 1974 MGB and spent way too much, but I now have my car back in new condition and driving it everyday in northwest Ohio that it is nice enough too. It takes faith and desire. Good luck!

[desertair27]

Originally Posted by eljay

I would add that working on the Airstream is therapeutic. If I paid a psychologist for the hours of therapy the trailers have provided...

It works for me.

It's definitely a labor of love for me and therapeutic as long as things are going well for me as I work on my trailer. Renovating a trailer on your own schedule, when you're motivated to work on it or just when time permits can be very satisfying.
I can't even imagine how many hours I've worked on my trailer not to mention all the time I spend laying awake at night thinking about my next step or researching info on the forums or even bugging Frank or Top for their expertise.
I really enjoy working on my trailer but always dream of having a pro design and renovate a trailer for me.

[bmklawt]

This is what it cost me so far

1975_Tradewind_cost.pdf


1975 Tradewind cost.xls

[Phrunes]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

As someone who does this for a living, I find the numbers very interesting you are all throwing out there. The one major factor left out of all of those numbers however is your time. Your man hours have a dollar value too. Say you were to attach $25/ hour, $50/ hour(not even half the rate of the mothership) to your calculations. Where would "what you have in it" be now?
Say onto the hours that; you could not work on it in your driveway and you had to rent a space. Say the land lord required you to have insurance on the space, you had to pay for the electric, had to heat or cool it. Where would those numbers be now? Do those numbers include tools needed to do the job?
I am just curious about this. I get emails and phone calls everyday asking me how much. Sometimes people say, "I can do it so much cheaper. How can it cost so much?"

That's like calculating the time value of money while sitting on the toilet, or figuring loss of wages while on vacation...since it is not our chosen avocation, but rather a hobby for which we receive payment in the form of relaxation, challenge, mental stimuli, etc. The "labor cost" is irrelevant. Is nothing left sacred in this world that we don't have to assign a value to it?...now those kids I have, I'm thinkin I should evaluate how much they are costing me in time and money...is it too late to outsource?

[Frank's Trailer Works]

I don't agree with you. I think ones time has value in everything one does. It is one thing to say I have $12,000 in my trailer. It is another thing to say I have $12,000 and 1200 hours of my time. If you were to buy a house and renovate it then sell it you wouldn't say, "just give me $75,000 instead of $252,000... I did all the work myself" Would you? If that same house burnt the ground you wouldn't tell your insurance company, "hey I only have $75,000 for the purchase price and $25,000 in materials so just give me $100,000." The same is true of your trailer. Say it got wrecked. "Oh, JQ Insurance, I only have $8,500 in it" No, you would want the full amount you feel it worth.

[mutcth]

I fully admit that I'm biased here - I'm one of Frank's clients. There is value to my time, especially given that both my wife and I work full-time in fairly-demanding professional jobs.

Restoring a trailer means that I don't have time to do something else. Those weekends bucking rivets or polishing mean I'm not out camping. Or it means I'm not making dinner (paying for take-out) or not mowing the yard (paying someone to do that.)

There's also a cost to owning a house with a big enough driveway to house the trailer. There's a cost to having all of the tools needed for a restoration. There's a cost to run to Lowes or Fastenal several times for each little project. It adds up.

If you enjoy doing this, then there is payback on that value - it's a hobby that gives you satisfaction. I get little satisfaction from throwing tools across the driveway in frustration, so that's where I come down on that equation.

That said, I thought about buying a Tradewind that was a well-done restoration by a forum member. All they wanted was what they put into it materials-wise. Honestly, I thought that would have been a steal and almost karmically unfair...

Tom

[Happycampers]

We bought Costalotta for $1500.. We have $35,000 in ours without labour but she is done the way we want it and we know what and how the repairs were done.. everything has been replaced..Airhead composting toilet.... Zipdee awnings all way round..new appliances.. 350 watt solar system with 2 Agm lifeline batteries.. stripped down and repainted.. (that was $3000 just for paint and labour to paint) all stripping and prepping done by hubby. All leaks fixed, led lighting.. custom upholstery ... drapes by me, axles, tires, wiring,plumbing, taps, you name it we have done it or replaced it or redesigned it. It works for us and we know we will never get what we have it her but we have what we want. She is ours and it was a labour of love. Hubby did keep track of the hours but it has been forgotten now, plus any frustration along the way. We know enjoy full timing and boondocking as much as possible. Lets all camp!

[utee94]

Frank can restore or renovate a trailer faster, more effeiciently, more effectively, and much, MUCH nicer than I can. He's a professional, his work is beautiful, and I wish I could have my entire trailer renovated by him. There's zero doubt that Frank would be my only choice if I were hiring a professional.

The reality is that I can't afford to hire a professional, or at least I choose to use my time rather than my money to renovate my trailer. My time DOES have value, there's no doubt about that. But my plan always included purchasing a vintage "fixer" and renovating it myself. It's definitely a hobby, andf hobbies cost money. At the same time, I enjoy the challenge, I enjoy most of the work, and as my kids have gotten older they've been able to help me, and that time shared with my family working on the trailer is just priceless to me.

To answer the questions from the OP, I paid around $3500 for my trailer including the gas it took to drive ~1300 miles round trip to pick it up. It was completely campable at that time, and we used it for an entire season as-is. We could have continued using it as-is for many more years, the things that were wrong with it weren't going to result in catastrophic failure any time soon. But I knew when I bought it that it had floor rot and frame rot in several places, and that those would need to be repaired. So far I've renovated the back half, replaced the rear subfloor, replaced 3 frame rails and one outrigger, added a gray tank, re-plumbed with PEX, lost an awning, added a new one, and done some other various work. It still needs new axles and a front half renovation including replacing some subfloor at the front, possibly replacing some of the steel frame up there, building out new cabinetry and a new dinette, and some other random repairs/renovations.

So far I have around $8K into it, and have at least another $4K-$5K to go, so my final numbers will be $12K-$13K. Completely excluding the cost of my own labor, of course.

Compared to the price of a new Airstream that is minimal, and even compared to the price of a new SOB I'm doing pretty well, and have a trailer that should last another 50 years. What my grandchildren choose to do with it, will be up to them.

[Foiled Again]

About the cost of your time - you COULD take a second job instead of working on the Airstream. You COULD afford more toys for your Airstream IF you took a second job.

You wouldn't have time to travel or CAMP if you took a second job...

It does make sense to track the time you spent on renovating the Airstream even if you can't recover it when you sell. You'll think longer and harder about selling!

You'll also be an enormous help to those who follow in your footsteps. How?

• By reducing the number of half finished basket cases rotting in people's barns, garages and drives. {Yikes! 3 weeks at 20 hrs per week won't do it?!}
• By encouraging others to make better cost vs. efficiency & quality choices. (Pay to have a new frame built with subfloor & new axles installed, while you remove interior & prep for lift... Then popping shell neatly from the old frame to the new one in a single day.
• by allowing hobbiest restorers to plan better and finish faster
• by giving Frank et al more work
• by sending some people running to the dealer to buy new!

[tphan]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

If you were to buy a house and renovate it then sell it you wouldn't say, "just give me $75,000 instead of $252,000... I did all the work myself" Would you? If that same house burnt the ground you wouldn't tell your insurance company, "hey I only have $75,000 for the purchase price and $25,000 in materials so just give me $100,000." The same is true of your trailer. Say it got wrecked. "Oh, JQ Insurance, I only have $8,500 in it" No, you would want the full amount you feel it worth.

You must live in a different world from mine. I can only sell my house or trailer for what the current group of buyers will give me for it, based on their knowledge of comparative market value, their finances, their needs and desires, and my patience. I know of no-one who would "give away" their house or trailer for less than what the market will bear, and no-one who would pay more than it's market value. But if somebody wants to do either of those- so what?
The amount of payout I get from my insurance company, either for my house or a trailer, is based more on actual market-based replacement costs (and the premium amount I am willing to pay) than how much time I say I spent tinkering with it and what arbitrary hourly pay rate I would like. You must have a different kind of insurance, or pay a lot more for it.
I suspect that what quite a few folks here are saying is that they didn't even bother to keep track of their time whilst fixing up their trailers (or houses) because it's not important enough to do so. It is, in fact, at least for me, besides the point.
I think most of us DIY-ers on this thread have made it clear that our costs do not reflect our time, so that those seeking professional refurbishing will not be sticker-shocked. Relax.

[Phrunes]

" If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys" - James Goldsmith. Call me a monkey.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by tphan

I think most of us DIY-ers on this thread have made it clear that our costs do not reflect our time, so that those seeking professional refurbishing will not be sticker-shocked. Relax.

There are a lot of DIYers for Airstream renovation, and there are a lot who pay professionals to perform some or all of the work. Under other circumstances, I'd pay Frank a healthy sum (aka king's ransom) to do an entire restoration for me. It would result in a much higher quality product than what I am going to have when I'm doing my own work.

I hope Frank doesn't think any of the DIYers on this thread don't value the amount of time it takes to perform quality restoration work on a trailer. If anything, the DIYers who've performed major renovations understand better than anyone-- anyone that is not a professional, of course.

I don't mention exceptions like "excluding the cost of my labor" because I don't value the time. I make those exceptions specifically because I DO value that time. Anyone who takes a major renovation lightly and thinks the work is going to be easy, will be in for a major shock. I went in with eyes wide open and was still surprised on numerous occasions just how difficult and/or time-consuming some things were.

Heck, one of the hardest things of the entire renovation was backing out those blasted slotted screws they used on all of the framing in 1963!

[worldinchaos]

FYI as just another data point, I've been tracking costs pretty intimately (although need to update the last 6 months), and if I subtract out the reg, insurance, and storage fees, which I had included initially, the total cost of our 18' 1959 for a complete shell on renovation and minimal use of original interior materials is tracking to total approximately $17k, including purchase price. In fact the only supplies remaining are a small LED TV and the hardwood flooring, which I have budgeted for in that total. We had originally assumed $15k and let it expand a little as we picked out some of the materials.

Now if you count labor, hoo boy-- this is a $100k trailer

EDIT: One further aspect of the data is I am allowing a $2k further expense over the next few years to go toward new axle/ running gear, and solar panels.

[TouringDan]

When the OP asks what it costs to renovate an Airstream, it depends. If you are asking that of a DIY, which I am, then you are going to get out of pocket costs. In post #12, my out of pocket costs so far are about 10k. By the time I am done they will be 15k or somewhat more. I have done the work myself because I am able to. Now I would never sell my Tradewind for just what I have in it. I don't even think about what it is worth, because I don't really plan on selling it period.

Now if I did not have DIY skills and I had to pay to have my Airstream renovated, then I would need to quote a price based on the actual total cost of getting it renovated, including parts and labor. This could easily be 30-50k or more based on the level and the quality of the renovation work.

Dan

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Didn't think I would take a beatin for telling people not to sell themselves short...

[Phrunes]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

Didn't think I would take a beatin for telling people not to sell themselves short...

Awwww...its ok, were just trying to make you feel guilty so you'll donate some of your time on OUR projects. Is it working yet?

[ND10CentCan]

Originally Posted by worldinchaos

FYI as just another data point, I've been tracking costs pretty intimately (although need to update the last 6 months), and if I subtract out the reg, insurance, and storage fees, which I had included initially, the total cost of our 18' 1959 for a complete shell on renovation and minimal use of original interior materials is tracking to total approximately $17k, including purchase price. In fact the only supplies remaining are a small LED TV and the hardwood flooring, which I have budgeted for in that total. We had originally assumed $15k and let it expand a little as we picked out some of the materials.

Now if you count labor, hoo boy-- this is a $100k trailer

EDIT: One further aspect of the data is I am allowing a $2k further expense over the next few years to go toward new axle/ running gear, and solar panels.

Oh, oh...this means another $95,000 to go. Easy could keep me from retiring for another 20 years.
Sandy

[Frank's Trailer Works]

Originally Posted by Phrunes

Awwww...its ok, were just trying to make you feel guilty so you'll donate some of your time on OUR projects. Is it working yet?

What do you need help with? I get numerous calls a day... I try to help in any way I can.

[utee94]

Originally Posted by 62overlander

What do you need help with? I get numerous calls a day... I try to help in any way I can.

Frank is extremely generous with his time and advice. There's no way I could have done even 1/2 of the things I have so far on my reno without his patient explanations. First thing I do any time I'm about to undertake a task, is to check his blogs. Chances are, he's already done it, and written about it in great detail.

Thanks as always Frank, and I don't think folks are attacking you, just explaining why they don't include their time in their reno cost summaries. For some (like me), it might just be too overwhelming to calculate the cost if my time is valued at even $10/hour!

[Minno]

I admire the fact that you do this for a living, Frank! You know, the mouse turds, dirt, icky, icky bellypan, etc.etc.etc. Not sure I could do it for someone elses RV. It's like taking care of kids: I do it for mine because they're mine and I love them, hate doing it for other peoples. No attack intended.....

Kay