stabilizer jack, mounting bolts

[phm31750]

just the facts
2013 Airstream 19' Flying Cloud
Half the year North FL under a carport on well draining concrete pad, except when in use.
Half the year in North NM on well draining gravel drive, except when in use.
During last weeks hitch up procedure, to return home, TWO of the bolt heads from the front, drivers side stabilizer jack fell off while I was cranking the jack up into position. FELL OFF! Both looked to have rusted off. Squirted liberal amount of penetrating oil on remaining bolt, gave a half hour or so and tried to remove it. No go. More oil. more time and finally very carefully got it to start out. Once removed the the shaft of the bolt above the head had what looked like alum oxide on it. Yup, white and fuzzy looking. Returned to NM and figured I needed to remove the remains three jack's nine bolts and figure out just what was going on.
Four days now of twice daily applications of penetrating oil, I am still reluctant to force any of them loose. Don't relish the process of drilling and EZ outing any more than I have to. So what am I up against? When I get the others removed I can replace with stainless. If I end up drilling and EZ outing how wide is the frame member? How much wiggle room do I have? Is the frame member steel or alum? Is the source of alum oxide the belly pan sandwiched between the steel jacks and frame? Did I miss the memo about removing all bolts monthly and coating with Anti-seize?
thanks all
phm

[HiJoeSilver]

Huh, interesting. Were the bolts you took out magnetic. Will a magnet attract them? Frame is steel. Aluminum oxide could be from belly pan. 3 years ish quick corrosion. When you replace them spray some cold galvanizing paint in there to protect the new ones. You can use stainless but they are not as strong. Hot dipped galvanized should slow corrosion.

[tjdonahoe]

I noticed my mounting bolts were rusty looking, I removed them and used cat anti seize on them ,it will last 20 years...

[A W Warn]

I noticed that one of the heads of the mounting screws on one of the stabilizer jacks on my 25' Safari is missing. On mine, these mounting screws are self tapping tech screws, not bolts. I assume it broke off because whoever installed the the stabilizers over torqued and twisted the head during installation.

If you want to use the existing screw holes to re-install, a larger diameter screw diameter will work.

The frame main rails on my trailer are about 2" wide. The bottom of the cross member is narrower, so not a lot of wiggle room. Moving toward either side of the trailer a 1/2" should be enough if you want to make new holes. Moving toward the front or rear will not work because the cross member is too narrow.

[KJRitchie]

I've got a couple of bolts sheared off each of my stabilizer jacks. I'm having them all the bolts replaced while my Airstream is having some other work done.

Kelvin

[dwightdi]

I was, at one time, the materials/metalist engineer for Johnson/Evinrude. We had plenty of steel bolts in contact and holding the aluminum diecastings together. I did lots of studies about the galvanic corrosion of bolts. The stabilizer mounting bolts push up against the aluminum casting and sheet of the belly pan. The massive area of the aluminum should be sacrificial to the steel bolts. Zinc in the galvanized steel coating will also protect the bolts for a time until it wears out. The usual cause of the bolt heads breaking off is a high residual stress inducted by the cold heading operation of making the bolt head out of a long bar of steel. This stress should have been relieved by an annealing or heat treating process after the bolt was made and before it was galvanized. Sometime, cheap manufacturers leave out this process. In the future buy bolts that are grade marked with three bumps on the head indicating their are Grade 5 bolts and therefore have been heat treated. Stainless would also be a solution.

[A W Warn]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

>> snip>> The stabilizer mounting bolts push up against the aluminum casting and sheet of the belly pan. The massive area of the aluminum should be sacrificial to the steel bolts. << snip<<

The bolt heads, in the case of a stabilizer, are pressed against the body of the steel stabilizer. Only the screw shaft is in contact with the aluminum.
Would applying several layers of paint, prior to re-installing, to the top surface of the stabilizer help prevent this galvanic corrosion?

[dwightdi]

On the two airstreams, which I own that have stabilizer jacks, the bolts hold up and are in contact with a aluminum diecasting that forms the majority of the stabilizer system. I do have corrosion on those diecastings which has protected the non- self tapping bolts for 26 - 38 years.

The reality is: Airstream has a very small engineering department with no materials engineer. They do not do long term environmental or endurance testing of their products and have refused to pay for materials consulting, when I offered it to them twice.
Airstream is still living off the legend of its founder after abandoning his philosophies and policies shortly after he died. No more company conducted caravans to gain knowledge of the use and abuse of the product. Let the customers do the final engineering and quality control testing of the product.

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

On the two airstreams, which I own that have stabilizer jacks, the bolts hold up and are in contact with a aluminum diecasting that forms the majority of the stabilizer system. I do have corrosion on those diecastings which has protected the non- self tapping bolts for 26 - 38 years.

The reality is: Airstream has a very small engineering department with no materials engineer. They do not do long term environmental or endurance testing of their products and have refused to pay for materials consulting, when I offered it to them twice.
Airstream is still living off the legend of its founder after abandoning his philosophies and policies shortly after he died. No more company conducted caravans to gain knowledge of the use and abuse of the product. Let the customers do the final engineering and quality control testing of the product.

Exactly why so there are many gripes about QC and other things about new AS. and why AS quit life time warranty 1974. 2 yr. warranty is a joke as takes longer for some things to show up plus mos. waiting for repair at JC.

[J. Morgan]

They are going to be self tapping or lag bolts.

Just get it over with, break off all that wont back out, drill new holes and mount the stabilizers a half inch offset from the old bolt holes with new bolts.

IMHO, trying to extract the old bolts is wasted effort.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.

[Boxite]

dwightdi, ...EXCELLENT information. Thank you!

[bparker3849]

Originally Posted by phm31750

just the facts
2013 Airstream 19' Flying Cloud
Half the year North FL under a carport on well draining concrete pad, except when in use.
Half the year in North NM on well draining gravel drive, except when in use.
During last weeks hitch up procedure, to return home, TWO of the bolt heads from the front, drivers side stabilizer jack fell off while I was cranking the jack up into position. FELL OFF! Both looked to have rusted off. Squirted liberal amount of penetrating oil on remaining bolt, gave a half hour or so and tried to remove it. No go. More oil. more time and finally very carefully got it to start out. Once removed the the shaft of the bolt above the head had what looked like alum oxide on it. Yup, white and fuzzy looking. Returned to NM and figured I needed to remove the remains three jack's nine bolts and figure out just what was going on.
Four days now of twice daily applications of penetrating oil, I am still reluctant to force any of them loose. Don't relish the process of drilling and EZ outing any more than I have to. So what am I up against? When I get the others removed I can replace with stainless. If I end up drilling and EZ outing how wide is the frame member? How much wiggle room do I have? Is the frame member steel or alum? Is the source of alum oxide the belly pan sandwiched between the steel jacks and frame? Did I miss the memo about removing all bolts monthly and coating with Anti-seize?
thanks all
phm

If I was you I'd replace them, I'm getting mine through Airstream supply.

[VT Wanderer]

We camp in St. Augustine FL every April. I notice that rust starts to develop on any untreated metal surface - hitch etc. - due to salt air.

[phm31750]

Hey thanks to all for their replies.
The steel stabilizer jacks have three holes, the two outboard holes are 3" apart center to center, the single inboard hole is 16" from that centerline. Seems as though I should be able to move out or in an inch. NOT fore and aft. But given what Iv'e learned from three years ownership and maintenance I am sort of unwilling to bet on that. Geeze!

[MelGoddard]

Originally Posted by dwightdi

On the two airstreams, which I own that have stabilizer jacks, the bolts hold up and are in contact with a aluminum diecasting that forms the majority of the stabilizer system. I do have corrosion on those diecastings which has protected the non- self tapping bolts for 26 - 38 years.

The reality is: Airstream has a very small engineering department with no materials engineer. They do not do long term environmental or endurance testing of their products and have refused to pay for materials consulting, when I offered it to them twice.
Airstream is still living off the legend of its founder after abandoning his philosophies and policies shortly after he died. No more company conducted caravans to gain knowledge of the use and abuse of the product. Let the customers do the final engineering and quality control testing of the product.

Finally, someone with an honest and realistic appraisal of a company that was once the "Cadillac" of the industry, and is now living off past glories.

I'm not a "P-eng", but rather am a retired Aircraft Maintenance Engineer, who can see some cheap and shoddy workmanship and materials used in my 30' FC. The 'craft' is comfortable to use, and so far everything works; but there's always that niggling feeling of 'What else will go wrong."? (There has been a few things go wrong on this and my previous 25'FC.)
iT's disheartening at times.

[WestieHouse]

It is sad, disappointing, and humbling to hear informed opinions consistent with my unmet expectations concerning AS quality control.

AS is about where the US auto industry was pre-1990's.

[J. Morgan]

Yeah, they could make Airstreams to aircraft manufacturing standards, but who would pay a million dollars for a trailer that is thirty feet long or less?

I have seen pictures of Airstreams that have been in fairly serious accidents and one that was baked in a garage fire to be resurrected.

There is not another trailer built that is built even close to the standards that would allow it to stand up as well under these adverse conditions.

IMHO, bolts under the trailer rusting up in Florida, are not an indication of poor quality, but an indication that steel rusts. Additionally, most of the issues I see on here involve "gadgety" crap not working as it is intended, much of this could be avoided if Airstream kept things more simple, but customers don't want simple....

#JustSayin...


Gradiens super tenui glacie.

[J. Morgan]

I say all of this as a person who would not drop 100K on ANY kind of vehicle, let alone a camper.

Pardon me for being frank here. I know that there are some people who have had real issues, and major ones with their trailers, these folks have legitimate grievances, but on the other side of that coin, there are some people who will not quit until they find something to complain about. If this is not a problem, and that is not a problem, they will keep looking as if they are on a divine mission.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.

((Edit; on review, I have paid more than 100K for some semi trucks... but I never would pay that much for a personal vehicle) full disclosure)

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by J. Morgan

I say all of this as a person who would not drop 100K on ANY kind of vehicle, let alone a camper.

Pardon me for being frank here. I know that there are some people who have had real issues, and major ones with their trailers, these folks have legitimate grievances, but on the other side of that coin, there are some people who will not quit until they find something to complain about. If this is not a problem, and that is not a problem, they will keep looking as if they are on a divine mission.


Gradiens super tenui glacie.

((http://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3...fJ0ow&s=1Edit; on review, I have paid more than 100K for some semi trucks... but I never would pay that much for a personal vehicle) full disclosure)

Priced a new KW, 5 axle truck and 3 axle pup.... 277,000 , prices goin up...