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Old 09-25-2021, 05:09 PM   #1
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International Front Separation 2019 27 foot FB

We had the same indents like a Thread posted by : nitzo : "Has anyone else noticed... Dents." He has a 2021 27 foot Globetrotter.
******
I had the same indents as nitzo. Returning from a previous trip, the street side indent... had a hairline split several inches long. I put some aluminum tape over it so not to get any water to enter. This is what you see in the photograph. The split is hairline and diagonal. You can see it through the tape.

This did not alarm me, as there are always some work needed from loose screws to hinges. These appeared benign. Well.... Maybe not.

- Towing with a 2016 F350 4x4 Diesel.
- Equalizer Hitch with 1000# bars. (had 750# on the 25 foot Signature International and NO exterior popped rivets, although a rear bed model.)
- 2019 27 foot Front Bed International Signature Front Bed.
- Storage is behind battery box and propane.
- Three inch lift kit from dealer.
- Sixteen inch Michelin tires (70psi), Sendel Wheels.

We were on the road for less than two weeks and and upon returning... I noticed rivets missing on the bottom edge of the storage compartment. These were discovered in August 26th, 2021.

I have with us, always... 1/2" and 3/4 inchLathe screws. The 3/4 inch Lathe Screw used to secure the frame to the body of the trailer was tight and secure. So far.

There were 2 rivets missing from the street side bottom frame of the storage door, that has the split in the indent.

There were 4 rivets missing from the curb side bottom frame of the storage door, but no split in the indent.

I will find photographs of the indents visible on previous earlier photographs. My indents were noticed August 26 and 30, 2021. Those photographs will be added shortly.

After following some Threads on these Forums this afternoon... obviously this is more than a casual indent from assembly, but possibly something that needs more attention than a Do It Yourself individual.

I add today's photographs. I will search to see if I have a photo of this area from an earlier date. It not an area that I would take a photograph.

I used 3/4 inch Lathe Screws and they went into the missing rivet holes very snug and secure. Obviously some metal that is solid behind the Storage Compartment frame. I have never encountered this with the 23 foot Safari or the 25 foot International. This is new to me and will get my photographs to our Airstream Dealer and get further information. I will add anything to this Thread with what details you may need to decide what to do.

The Lathe Screws appear to be secure... but that needs to be seen with a trip to test them and understand what might be needed... sooner than later.
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Old 09-25-2021, 05:23 PM   #2
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Indents but all rivets are intact...

August 26th with the split within the indent on the street side.

August 30th with the indents and rivets popped. I did find popped rivets on the curb side of the inside frame for the storage compartment. The photo shows a discolored pop rivet which on this last trip was later missing. This was before applying Lathe Screws to secure to the areas where the rivets were located.

You will also notice the frame on the storage compartment is NOT Flush with the skin of the trailer. There is a gasket between the frame and the skin.

Does this occur with Front Bed Models... only?
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Old 09-25-2021, 06:29 PM   #3
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Earliest accidental photographs... but not close enough?

The first photo was one using leveling blocks and wood blocks under the power jack. October 7, 2019.

The second photo was also a photo of the leveling blocks and wood blocks under the power jack. July 19, 2021.

I sometimes use photographs with my posts to illustrate what is difficult to explain.

The dates are when I installed the photographs onto the computer... so the events are earlier than the computer's dating system.

Someone may notice something. I will try to tinker with these as well. Trying to establish a time line... if even possible.

I would suggest if you are towing a FRONT BED with the Storage Compartment in Front... take some photographs today. I never thought about it and if it were not for my Wife looking on the Air Forum seeing Front Separation threads with 27 foot Airstreams... I would not know what to call what I am now looking at.
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Old 09-25-2021, 08:09 PM   #4
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Ray,

Yes, it seems like all of the big mouth front bedroom units are prone to the “front end separation” design issue.

Just had mine (2020 27FBT Globetrotter) repaired by the mothership on Monday/Tuesday of this week. Repaired from front end, new panel, baggage door and frame, as well as welded brackets and rivets internally for shell and bracket. 14 hours labor.

Tech mentioned that factory has changed to new beefier design for at least the 33FB Classics starting sometime back in March to solve this problem. Hoping our new used 2021 33FBT has the fix or else we will get another mothership visit sometime next year.

Regards,
Ron
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Old 09-25-2021, 11:44 PM   #5
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Sorry Ray

Welcome to the club.

You have the shell from frame separation. The Jackson factory service will fix it. I made the mistake of having the repair from the inside out. I know have learned it would have been better from the outside in. This gets you a brand new locker.

I am seriously thinking on switching to a new style AirSafe hitch with my equalizer bars. Waiting for the factory to test it’s new design. Jury is not out yet on our HD Ford trucks and WD that might be jarring the ft end of the trailer apart. Or so this is what service told us. So don’t kill the messenger.

You jabbed me pretty hard once on a post I sent out. Man you were border line snarky and rude. However I still feel it’s nice to let you know what’s up with your rig.
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Old 09-26-2021, 08:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Life is a Highway View Post
Welcome to the club.

You have the shell from frame separation. The Jackson factory service will fix it. I made the mistake of having the repair from the inside out. I know have learned it would have been better from the outside in. This gets you a brand new locker.

I am seriously thinking on switching to a new style AirSafe hitch with my equalizer bars. Waiting for the factory to test it’s new design. Jury is not out yet on our HD Ford trucks and WD that might be jarring the ft end of the trailer apart. Or so this is what service told us. So don’t kill the messenger.

You jabbed me pretty hard once on a post I sent out. Man you were border line snarky and rude. However I still feel it’s nice to let you know what’s up with your rig.
*****

I do not recall a 'snarky' response to anyone. I tell things as I see them and to the point. Much like this Thread. I am not offended by anyone disagreeing with me. Many comments made on Forums may be more opinion. I try to lay out my responses in long posts.

Do you have photographs to offer? I have taken the time to add mine.

I also am a Do It Myself person. There are common problems with Airstreams that need to be tweaked. This is a possible engineering problem and having nothing to do with my towing options. It is not unusual for an individual having a problem with a 'product' and those responsible may find it convenient to pass on their responsibility.

We will see how this develops. If others are also discovering a similar problem of Front End Separation... with different tow vehicles and hitches... then blame becomes more of problem with the trailer. Time will tell.

I have my opinions and describe what I see. The Front Separation of Front Bed 27 foot Airstreams may prove to be a design flaw and not the tow vehicle, hitch, tire pressure, loading of trailer... but possibly a Frame Issue where there is more weight in the Front Bed on this area without adequate strength added in this area.

I towed our 25 foot International with the F350 and Equalizer Hitch without incident. Same type of traveling and use. It was a Rear Bed.
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Old 09-26-2021, 08:37 AM   #7
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The equalizer hitch is what did it. Get rid of the equalizer and get another WD hitch then get the separation fixed at JC. Happened on our 2019 Globetrotter. Just got fixed by JC.

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Old 09-26-2021, 08:38 AM   #8
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Are their others out there? Unknown?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhensley View Post
Ray,

Yes, it seems like all of the big mouth front bedroom units are prone to the “front end separation” design issue.

Just had mine (2020 27FBT Globetrotter) repaired by the mothership on Monday/Tuesday of this week. Repaired from front end, new panel, baggage door and frame, as well as welded brackets and rivets internally for shell and bracket. 14 hours labor.

Tech mentioned that factory has changed to new beefier design for at least the 33FB Classics starting sometime back in March to solve this problem. Hoping our new used 2021 33FBT has the fix or else we will get another mothership visit sometime next year.

Regards,
Ron
******

Thanks Ron for your valuable input.

I had a message from Nitzo, whom my wife first read about this when we discovered popped rivets.

Those who travel less often with their Front Bed models may want to examine this area. This was all new to us.

I sent my photographs of my suspected Front Separation to our Airstream Dealer this morning after reading Nitzo's Thread.

Are there others out there? This happened quickly after thousands of miles without noticing anything other than the indents and the one with the split. Now it has become apparent to me that there is more going on than routine misfitting on a panel that had indents...

I am going to get my 'creeper' out and put some mileage on it... to examine the bottom skin and front frame and see if there is anything else I should be following... this is a first for me after three Airstreams.

...and NO I do not use the stabilizing jacks, ever, on any of our Airstreams. That would eliminate anyone suspecting these being the problem. I also block the front jack as you see from the photographs. This is to avoid bending the 'pad tube' by keeping it as short as possible when leveling the front to back when parked.
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Old 09-26-2021, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevejones View Post
The equalizer hitch is what did it. Get rid of the equalizer and get another WD hitch then get the separation fixed at JC. Happened on our 2019 Globetrotter. Just got fixed by JC.

Steve
People with other hitches on other posts of same topic are reporting the same problem too.
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Old 09-26-2021, 09:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kscherzi View Post
People with other hitches on other posts of same topic are reporting the same problem too.


Agreed. People are reporting the same problem when picking up brand new trailers that were only transported to the dealer. This is not an exclusive Equalizer Hitch issue.
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Old 09-26-2021, 10:09 AM   #11
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Hitch? Tow Vehicle? Cargo? Tire Pressure? Roads?

I had a private email and... we already discussed what finger pointing is coming.

The prediction has already occurred.

Has anyone had this with a Half Ton tow vehicle or SUV?

Were 'indents' noticed on the Airstream Dealer lot?

Has anyone had this with a hitch other than Equalizer?

These are questions that need answers for everyone to understand what is going on.

I get notices from Ford about... needing this or that on stock parts. I never get any notices from Airstream or the Suppliers of cabinets and appliances. I fix them myself and reinforce cabinets that...move. See a blue line on the floor? That is what to look for... for us. Saw the Blue Line yesterday and moved bathroom wall a bit and reinforced it... so not to move. First time for a cabinet moving.

I am interested in Cause and Effect issues. I was in the Safety OSHA business for a State. Some good ideas. Some really bad. Some not even mentioned as a person working on a Drilling or Servicing Rig in Wyoming is not like a welding shop in Casper, Wyoming. Same with Airstreams.

This is a group effort. My name is on my posts. (Did not realize that I could have made up a name at the time.) This is serious. Warranty work has a time limit that varies. The clock is ticking.
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Old 09-26-2021, 10:53 AM   #12
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I fix them myself and reinforce cabinets that...move. See a blue line on the floor? That is what to look for... for us. Saw the Blue Line yesterday and moved bathroom wall a bit and reinforced it... so not to move. First time for a cabinet moving.
Ray, please explain what the blue line is and where you saw it on the bathroom wall. I'm the 2nd owner of a 2015 30 RB and the bathroom wall moved on the original owner and he reinforce the wall but that didn't keep the doorway from separating too. My wife sees a blueline after we travel that I always associated with the kickplate on the bathroom cabinets basically moving back and forth slightly during transport.
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:02 AM   #13
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Shell Photo... very interesting and impressive

I found this somewhere... and saved it.

Gives you an idea that the ARCH has lots of strength. Like an... Aluminum Egg on wheels...

If Airstream knows that Equalizer Hitches damage the trailer, Jackson Center needs to put it into print and say it Voids Your Airstream Warranty Using an Equalizer Hitch.

I am expecting positive things to happen and my 27 foot Front Bed will be taken care of and make me happy, happy, happy. I have not been disappointed in our Dealer nor Jackson Center. I expect this to continue.

When members say... it is my fault for this or that... you must think I spend about $90,000 for an Airstream... this is something I take care in what I do with it, where I decide to take it when camping and keep it in perfect condition when we leave on our next trip.

If it is a hitch, tire, lift kit, Dexter Axles, Dometic AC units... just maybe the front needs to be reinforced as someone reported earlier. Easy fix. Tougher once the trailer is being towed and needs to be returned to Airstream J. C..

High End Airstreams have Michelin 16 inch on the 30 foot+ models, already.

I now see a list of similar Threads listed at the bottom of this Thread... whoa. It is not only ME.
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:11 AM   #14
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The BLUE LINE on the Exterior Wall of Bathroom...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsatwork View Post
Ray, please explain what the blue line is and where you saw it on the bathroom wall. I'm the 2nd owner of a 2015 30 RB and the bathroom wall moved on the original owner and he reinforce the wall but that didn't keep the doorway from separating too. My wife sees a blueline after we travel that I always associated with the kickplate on the bathroom cabinets basically moving back and forth slightly during transport.
****
My Airstream is stored in our RV Garage at home... that is why I can casually step out into the garage and look my pride and joy over. So being Stored... outside... cannot be one of the problems.

This was on the floor of the exterior wall of the bathroom. First time I had seen this. Nancy showed me at the bottom screwed to the floor had split and the wall moved to the left a bit. I saw the blue line on the floor... what ??? is this.

The fit on the curve is off, even with the plastic that fits over the edge on the larger curved walls. I can stick my finger into the curves. My hands are like those who handled a Chain Saw for years... which I have and did.

I moved the wall a fraction of an inch so the door closed, and took a bracket like those used to install seats on chairs... screwed into the floor and into the wall. Did it in two places to support the wall and the door section that is at an angle.

There are some very poor curve fitting that I just insert material to fill this gap when installed. They all have this. Each fits differently as these are hand made.

I also secured the leg on the table to the floor with two same brackets. Now the table is not bouncing when traveling. Not a big deal for me, but this keeps the table from tearing away from the wall below the window where it is attached.

Sure... not Factory... but it is MY Trailer and if something needs to be secured or improved with hardware... mine get it. No one complained when I show them what we did and why on those we sold.
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Old 09-26-2021, 11:37 AM   #15
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I would love to see some pictures of the Airstream repair. I have my own opinion on what is causing these cracks and again my opinion only. I believe the problem started with cutting holes in the forward skin such as battery boxes and access hatches. It doesn't appear that there is any skin reinforcement (doublers) around the cutouts to carry the skin loads that have been removed for the particular cutout. So it is inevitable that the cracks occur in the corners where all the loads are concentrated by the skin cutouts. I don't think that load distribution hitches are the root cause of the problems. Again my opinion only, the cracks are caused by lack of skin reinforcement around the cutouts.
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Old 09-26-2021, 12:37 PM   #16
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Just inspected the front compartment on my 2020 GT 27FBT. I have the same dents/separation between the shell and the hatch frame on both the left and right bottom corners.

I guess I add this to the the list of things to get fixed at JC.
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Old 09-26-2021, 12:40 PM   #17
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I don't think that load distribution hitches are the root cause of the problems. .
I have to agree with this. I have pictures that were taken when my camper was still on the dealers lot. The pictures show two dents on each side of the front storage door. So, this means, if a distribution hitch caused this, then either the factory hooked one to the camper for whatever reason or the transporter used one, but it's my understanding they put the campers on a trailer not tow them. As of now, the dents on my camper are about the same size as they were when it was new. It has been towed right around 2500 miles with a 10,000# Equalizer Hitch behind a F350 Dually 8' bed loaded to the max.

Do I have a frame separation problem? I'm not really sure. I just know what I've been told, I haven't seen anything other than dents that have been there since new.
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Old 09-26-2021, 12:54 PM   #18
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There is no way a group of engineers could forecast how much stress an Airstream can stand and not develop stress cracks, frame to shell separation, and frame cracks. I have had them all. The unknown variables are almost infinite. Just a few: all road bumps holes and other hazards, trailer frame to shell integrity, rigidity of the hitching system, TV suspension rigidity, driver operation. The list goes on and on. In other words, the manufacture produces the best product with strength and utility, sometimes compromised, so as to build a trailer that can be used with reasonable expectation of having a satisfied owner. The only solution to these unknowns is for the manufacture to repair the short comings if they due indeed develop. The Airstream Factory Service Center is good about doing this and they charge it off to their "Good Will" account. Now guess who pays for that? The customers and the stockholders. That's the American way. But, look at all the fine products we enjoy in the end. Although I have been inconvenienced I still love and admire the beauty and utility of my Airstream, "Space A."
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Old 09-26-2021, 01:58 PM   #19
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2021 International 25FBT, just looked - and driver side of hatch/panel is smooth and fine; passenger side has a noticeable dent in the lower corner support of the hatch area.

I'll be watching this closely to see if/how it evolves.
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Old 09-26-2021, 02:25 PM   #20
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As I see more posts to the two threads that relate to this. I'm a bit amazed at the attitudes dealing with getting it repaired. Mainly, "Well I guess I'll just travel across the country on my dime, using my time and hopefully they will fix it". Naw, not me. I want Airstream to send a enclosed transport, pick it up on a Sunday, take it to the factory, fix it RIGHT, and have it back on Saturday. Most of us have over a 100K in these things. It's a problem they have known about for a while and haven't done anything about. FIX IT.
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