International Front Separation 2019 27 foot FB

[Ray Eklund]

Rock Guard Tension. Straight Hinge on a CURVED Surface.

Just some work I did this week to align the Street Side stainless rock guard that was misaligned, so I drilled a 3/8 hole for the three lock down acorn nuts.

The middle one was off more... to elongated the hole toward the hinge another 1/8 inch. I did not like the effort to push and get the guard to align with the bolts, attached to the skin of the trailer.

I also have both Rock Guards with the bottom trim with a gap on the bottom side due to the curve tension. If you feel underneath the trim... I have a gap. The rivets are being pulled out.

This also was creating tension on the Exterior Skin of the left and right sides.

The hinge is straight. The skin curves for about 12 inches at the bottom section of the hinge. I tightened the screws down to where the curve began... and then did not snug the lower screws into the skin frame behind. Than used Silicone to secure it from vibration or getting small stones stuck behind the Rock Guard.

Much like the straight frame of the rear window shade. The ends have air behind them without screws. Same situation. Curves and Straight Hinges are not a good match. When you have a 27FBQ with indents... time to look around and reduce tension?

[SSquared]

I just got home after having my 2013 25FB repaired at Jackson Center. The dimples that appeared a year ago have been virtually invisible for a months, but I still wanted to get this addressed.

The repair was explained to me as follows:
--The piece of exterior skin at the front is removed
--A new piece of angle is welded in on each side, running from the outside of the A frame to an outrigger that supports the outside corner (this is hidden by the banana wrap).
-- A new structural piece is added to connect the wall to the floor on each side of the door.
--A new piece of skin is installed.
--Olympic rivets are the standard method of installing the new skin. Buck rivets would roughly double the cost.

One thing I did not realize until the repair was complete: New upper and lower rub rails and rub rail inserts are installed (the old ones have to be removed to drill out the rivets around the skin). In my case, about half of each was replaced. For the lower rail, the new section is from the water heater to the street side wheel well. For the upper rail, it is from the entry door to about the middle of the street side. My old inserts look terrible; if I had known I was going to get this much new rail, I might have wanted to get it all done.

Also, the front compartment door on my 2013 was the style with a single latch. Mine has always leaked at the side when driving in the rain. Newer trailers are made with two latches, which are of a different style. I had them install the new style door, and that fixed my leak. And the new door opens and closes freely whether or not the WD bars are hooked up. (my old door was always tight and was impossible to open when the bars are hooked up).

[GettinAway]

SSquared, are you on FB? There is a FB group for ASs with frame separation. There was a post the other day about someone that had the repair done at JC, and had almost immediate reoccurrence of separation. Hopefully you’ll have better luck.
I’ve got a 25FB also, with a dimple on the curb side. I’m in watch mode at this point. Your FB is a 13, had the dimples deepened recently? What prompted you to get it addressed now? (Other than the storage door issues.)
Thx

[SSquared]

No, I'm not on FB. My dimples appeared late last summer. I called JC for an appointment and the earliest date they had available was May 31. The dimples nearly disappeared after 1000 or so miles but I still wanted to get the root problem fixed.

We've done 1800 miles since leaving JC. All good so far.

[BTCMUSN]

I made my appointment at JC 8 months ago and taking mine for the repair on 5 July…..how long did it take JC to make the repair?

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by BTCMUSN

I made my appointment at JC 8 months ago and taking mine for the repair on 5 July…..how long did it take JC to make the repair?

You can either call and ask or wait till your there and ask..they have pretty good estimate, and last couple times I was there, they beat their estimates by a day or so in the repairs. I always make a point to "meet" the techs doing the work, and will drop by to see how things are coming from time to time. They are pretty efficient, IMHO. I also had new lower "band" put on all the way around, brakes checked /repaired (they caught an issue with rear brakes worn due to faulty sensor), checked AC, and seals on roof.

I had the rear quarter panel and window replaced due to parking mishap. They quoted me 2.5 days and they were done in 2 days. I do make a point to visit the techs once they take my rig in for work. I try to visit morning and afternoon. In this repair of my rear quarter panel and window, they were done by end of second day. By the way, I have gone to Artie both visits. Good luck!

[rfequity1]

Originally Posted by SSquared

I just got home after having my 2013 25FB repaired at Jackson Center. The dimples that appeared a year ago have been virtually invisible for a months, but I still wanted to get this addressed.

The repair was explained to me as follows:
--The piece of exterior skin at the front is removed
--A new piece of angle is welded in on each side, running from the outside of the A frame to an outrigger that supports the outside corner (this is hidden by the banana wrap).
-- A new structural piece is added to connect the wall to the floor on each side of the door.
--A new piece of skin is installed.
--Olympic rivets are the standard method of installing the new skin. Buck rivets would roughly double the cost.

One thing I did not realize until the repair was complete: New upper and lower rub rails and rub rail inserts are installed (the old ones have to be removed to drill out the rivets around the skin). In my case, about half of each was replaced. For the lower rail, the new section is from the water heater to the street side wheel well. For the upper rail, it is from the entry door to about the middle of the street side. My old inserts look terrible; if I had known I was going to get this much new rail, I might have wanted to get it all done.

Also, the front compartment door on my 2013 was the style with a single latch. Mine has always leaked at the side when driving in the rain. Newer trailers are made with two latches, which are of a different style. I had them install the new style door, and that fixed my leak. And the new door opens and closes freely whether or not the WD bars are hooked up. (my old door was always tight and was impossible to open when the bars are hooked up).

I have the same trailer as yours and had the exact same repair done 1 year ago. No signs of reappearing. Took them 2 days to get it all done.

[SSquared]

Originally Posted by BTCMUSN

I made my appointment at JC 8 months ago and taking mine for the repair on 5 July…..how long did it take JC to make the repair?

When they started first thing on a Tuesday morning, their estimate was a day and a half. It turned out to be two days and a half. I don't think my job turned out to be harder than expected; the tech may have been unable to work on it all the time.

[Ray Eklund]

Repairing / Replacing Floor or Frame

Frame Failure- 22 foot International

(First Post 2-10-2009 and Latest Post 7-1-2022)

******

An ongoing painful Thread to read posts of individuals buying a 22 foot Airstream and having Frame Failures and Cross Member Sagging. Then others come forward finding similar or the same failures.

Then the apologists come forward and BLAME THE OWNERS.

- Did you tow off of paved roads?
- Your Tow Vehicle is too stiff.
- Your Hitch is too stiff.

Any of this sound... familiar? It sure did to me.

One posted his Tundra was a 3/4 ton, which it is not and no doubt had apologists pointing out that the "Tundra is Too Stiff"? I could only read some of the current complaints and some early posts. Where does a proper Tow Vehicle and Hitch begin? Who sells the trailer and the hitch to the customer? Who asks about the Tow Vehicle and then says... Your tow vehicle is too STIFF? No Sales Person said anything to me.

I could not take it any more. Misery beyond my Neanderthal comprehension. The Similar if not the SAME blame game. YOU, customer... DID IT. IT is your fault. Suck it up and paid $$$$$ to fix it. Then, the frame repeats the same problems...

Our Front End Dimples to possible splits is NO Different. Same response from the crowd blaming the Customer. These are more cosmetic than a Frame Failure, in comparison.

When I buy anything... I take care of it. I have two pair of Climbing Boots I paid dearly for (Vasque) in 1969 for the first pair. I still have them, but my big toe presses against the top leather with pain, beyond comprehension. But I still have them.

ME damaging this one and only of THREE Airstreams? It is not my character. Anything I have is kept as nice as anyone could imagine. My family was POOR. I had hand me down clothing from relatives. I pick up cents in parking lots.

...AND I am the reason MY third Airstream has... issues? What about the other two? Now my current 27 foot International is perfect. Took less than two years... but I can take it out and no cabinet doors coming apart... any longer.

This makes me SICK to think about these Airstream owners getting the You Know What. Shame on Airstream. This will ruin them?

[GettinAway]

I think everyone acknowledges that this is an AS issue. It’s all in how you deal with it. I’m not getting rid of my trailer because of it. I’m still going to haul it everywhere and enjoy it. I’m certainly not switching trailers because of it. (Either an AS or SOB.) It’s disappointing for sure how AS has responded. It’s just not something I feel I can control, so I’m just not going to worry about it. I hope this doesn’t make me some kind of AS apologist, but I can’t control that either.

[BTCMUSN]

I am here in a RV Park close to JC as I have appointment to get my front end separation fixed at JC on Tuesday morning. I will let everyone know how it goes. JC has been very good communicating with me and they are fixing this at no charge to me other than the 900 mile drive at $5.50 a gallon diesel. Made this appointment back in December and at that time this was the first open opportunity for JC to get me in.

Sorry about picture orientation…

[Ray Eklund]

I think everyone acknowledges that this is an AS issue. It痴 all in how you deal with it. I知 not getting rid of my trailer because of it. I知 still going to haul it everywhere and enjoy it. I知 certainly not switching trailers because of it. (Either an AS or SOB.) It痴 disappointing for sure how AS has responded. It痴 just not something I feel I can control, so I知 just not going to worry about it. I hope this doesn稚 make me some kind of AS apologist, but I can稚 control that either.

*****
Airstream JC and the Airstream Dealer made it MY ISSUE. Under warranty until the end of July 2022, also. I got the "you done it, you fix it"... shuffle.

Getting RID? Switching to SOB? The Oliver Elite II has so many positive features you need to own one to understand. I wanted a 2019. I saw one for sale. WE looked... bought it immediately. Happy, happy... too. As nice as I suspected and have been looking for a Local Sale for years.

I have owned three Airstreams. Learned how to fix them by trial and error. I find the Oliver Elite as an UPGRADE to my 27FBQ. It is perfect for our wanting to get further off the Grid. Do I need to keep the Airstream, too?

We liked our 2008 Land Cruiser... but we sold it and bought a 2021 Land Cruiser. We l liked it as well, and other than being new... not much different.

Do I need to keep an Airstream and an Oliver? If we find a Second Home with a RV Garage... you bet. Then we would. But with unreal increases of Real Estate prices for nicer homes with acreage... we are not ready to buy into a frenzy.

Trailers are no different. The 2019 International has everything we need, as does the Oliver without the obvious inherent issues of Airstreams. I chose 2019 on the Oliver as we wanted BASIC appliances that were propane, battery AND electric. That is the same with the 2019 International FBQ. The indents are not worrisome for me, as I reinforced this area myself. If no one steps up to purchase... it is not on Blocks in a field.

If we want to take the Airstream, we can. The idea was finding a Cabin with acreage, with a RV Garage for a Summer and a Winter Home, like we had several years ago in Castle Rock, Colorado as the Summer Home.

If my Posts are not long enough alread, and need to explain every $%#& detail... I would need more time. I can afford to have two or one trailers. Do not need to be new... but have to be 100%, or close to that for dependable traveling. I have that. But... if one has to go... it is the Airstream. The End?

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by BTCMUSN

I am here in a RV Park close to JC as I have appointment to get my front end separation fixed at JC on Tuesday morning. I will let everyone know how it goes. JC has been very good communicating with me and they are fixing this at no charge to me other than the 900 mile drive at $5.50 a gallon diesel. Made this appointment back in December and at that time this was the first open opportunity for JC to get me in.

Sorry about picture orientation…

Is this an “out of warranty” free repair? Hope so.

Ray, I just read your post above. Makes sense to me. I guess it was responding to my post. I wasn’t questioning your approach, I was only trying to express my thoughts. I’m sure Oliver trailers are great. Sounds like you were ready for a downsized option anyway. We’ve been upsizing.

[Ray Eklund]

Post #291. Note the indent on the photograph. Also: Note the Buck Rivet with the dark ring around it. This tells you and me that there is movement on this Buck Rivet.

If anyone sees black around any Rivet or Buck Rivet... movement, or the rivet is loose. Loose enough so vibration when being towed will wear the aluminum. Aluminum in fine powder is BLACK.

Silver is Black in powder form. Called Mineral Streak on a white streak plate of ceramic. Geologist's have a list of Streak Colors to indicate composition of minerals.

If you find ANY Rivets with the Black Ring... interior or exterior... there is movement of the aluminum skin against that rivet. For the FB 25's and 27's foot Airstreams... then look UNDER and follow the Rivets holding the aluminum skin to the Frame. If you see rivets missing, or black around any... you also have movement.

If you find these rivets with the black around the heads... then look at the Silver Strip that conceals where Rivets attach the skin to frame members. If you see BULGES... then there were Screws added that are concealed by the strip.

To really get an idea of 'what is going on' with your trailer:

Remove the mattress.
Remove the plywood that the mattress was upon. Screws.
Remove the plywood, mark front so to align screws when reattached.

YOU now can see what is going on. Look at the Ripples of the interior thin aluminum skin. It is rippled as the interior skin is longer than the space from left to right.

Also look at how the front shell is attached to the Frame.

Also take a flashlight to look between front and inner skin to find short missing frames to attach the exterior skin.

You will also find debris, black aluminum dust from manufacturing, drilled metal shavings and SCREWS. Not Rivets that were installed at the Factory to make the Silver Band Frame adhere to the curves. They are installed at Random. Mine were. The metal is a fraction of the thickness of a One Cent piece. Probably intended to secure the Front End.

Jackson Center WAS AWARE OF THIS. Count the Screws, versus Rivets.

No matter... doing this is easy. You will SEE what is going on. I reinforced this area myself. To date... no more movement noticed. Better than doing Nothing... I say.

[Ray Eklund]

Previous Post and this One are how I later discovered:

I may have mentioned these early signs in this discussion, but repeat:

- If you open the front storage compartment and it sounds like it needs to be oiled. There may be some movement to distort the hinge, but oil it anyways.

- Standing in front of the storage compartment, you will NOT see these Buck Rivets. You need to get down and look at the Rivets attaching the Storage Compartment Frame to the Skin of the Trailer, above the Silver Banding. I found four missing when I first looked. Also could see the Black Ring around the hole.

- Look at the Frame as it enters under the front section of the Trailer. There are aluminum sheets Buck Riveted to the Frame underneath. I found two Buck Rivets missing on the Driver's Side. I cannot recall on the Curb / Passenger Side. I took Lath Screws and used torque on the Battery Drill to Seat the Screws Tight.

- The narrow silver band that goes around the entire Trailer is also below the Storage Compartment Door and Hinge. I later found bulges. When I pulled out the mattress, etc... to look from the inside what was going on... these were heads of Long Screws extending 3/8 to 1/2 inch into the open area between the interior aluminum skin and the exterior. Probably to secure the strip better, as there is NOTHING for the screws to secure into. It is air space.

This is where I added Angled Aluminum 90 degree supports to Lath Screw to the lower interior support and secure with Lath Screws from the Exterior compartment frame. Also did secure to the flat surface in side to side with a thick aluminum alloy support to hold all secure. (Lowes has a good assortment of stout aluminum allow hardware to pick through and cut into lengths needed.)

This is for those who are looking and... wonder what can be done? This has secured the front after finding these indents and one had split.

IF you decide to do NOTHING... expect the worse. Sit back and consider what can be done to stabilize this area... if at all... but nobody seems to know how all of this is happening. Even the repairs seem to fail. So far... I am content. Did it myself, sweat equity and for minimal cost and labor. Learned plenty in the process and see room for Factory Improvements in this area. Very sloppy... and what you see is after I cleaned up the metal shavings, black dust and debris. Also the nuts needed to be tightened that you see. I cleaned this all up... to take photographs.

*** I have maxed out my photograph allotment and these will be the last photographs on the Airforum I am able to post. A notification appeared on the Screen and I could not add the other three photographs. Sorry. It has been an pleasure to help anyone with the photos I have supplied over time. It takes time and effort to do these simple photos, but if they helped some Members... it was worth doing it.

[Thiss]

Airstream just announced partnership with Blue Ox.

Not my preferred sway control, but I may set up my new unit with the dealer installed Sway Pro. Sounds like a good way to hedge bets and let the dealer and factory take ownership if a problem occurs.

[Cispook]

Originally Posted by Ray Eklund

Previous Post and this One are how I later discovered:

I may have mentioned these early signs in this discussion, but repeat:

- If you open the front storage compartment and it sounds like it needs to be oiled. There may be some movement to distort the hinge, but oil it anyways.

- Standing in front of the storage compartment, you will NOT see these Buck Rivets. You need to get down and look at the Rivets attaching the Storage Compartment Frame to the Skin of the Trailer, above the Silver Banding. I found four missing when I first looked. Also could see the Black Ring around the hole.

- Look at the Frame as it enters under the front section of the Trailer. There are aluminum sheets Buck Riveted to the Frame underneath. I found two Buck Rivets missing on the Driver's Side. I cannot recall on the Curb / Passenger Side. I took Lath Screws and used torque on the Battery Drill to Seat the Screws Tight.

- The narrow silver band that goes around the entire Trailer is also below the Storage Compartment Door and Hinge. I later found bulges. When I pulled out the mattress, etc... to look from the inside what was going on... these were heads of Long Screws extending 3/8 to 1/2 inch into the open area between the interior aluminum skin and the exterior. Probably to secure the strip better, as there is NOTHING for the screws to secure into. It is air space.

This is where I added Angled Aluminum 90 degree supports to Lath Screw to the lower interior support and secure with Lath Screws from the Exterior compartment frame. Also did secure to the flat surface in side to side with a thick aluminum alloy support to hold all secure. (Lowes has a good assortment of stout aluminum allow hardware to pick through and cut into lengths needed.)

This is for those who are looking and... wonder what can be done? This has secured the front after finding these indents and one had split.

IF you decide to do NOTHING... expect the worse. Sit back and consider what can be done to stabilize this area... if at all... but nobody seems to know how all of this is happening. Even the repairs seem to fail. So far... I am content. Did it myself, sweat equity and for minimal cost and labor. Learned plenty in the process and see room for Factory Improvements in this area. Very sloppy... and what you see is after I cleaned up the metal shavings, black dust and debris. Also the nuts needed to be tightened that you see. I cleaned this all up... to take photographs.

*** I have maxed out my photograph allotment and these will be the last photographs on the Airforum I am able to post. A notification appeared on the Screen and I could not add the other three photographs. Sorry. It has been an pleasure to help anyone with the photos I have supplied over time. It takes time and effort to do these simple photos, but if they helped some Members... it was worth doing it.

Thanks Ray - hopefully you get out of photo jail

[BTCMUSN]

Here at JC and dropped off for the Airstream front end separation repair and some other items….while I’m here. Will let you know how it goes

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by Thiss

Airstream just announced partnership with Blue Ox.

Not my preferred sway control, but I may set up my new unit with the dealer installed Sway Pro. Sounds like a good way to hedge bets and let the dealer and factory take ownership if a problem occurs.

******

We are all interested how Blue Ox may differ from other options. Are there benefits for heavy trailers being towed by SUV's and 1/2 ton pickups.

This is very interesting. I have heard of Blue Ox, but will have to look it up on the Internet to understand how it works. Equalizer has a number of ways to adjust the hitch to a trailer. The up to Five Washers to adjust the Ball Angle, and the WD Bar # Ratings.

Any comments from Blue Ox users? There are current FBQ owners who are eager to solve this Indent and Frame Flex issues.

[Ray Eklund]

Originally Posted by BTCMUSN

Here at JC and dropped off for the Airstream front end separation repair and some other items….while I’m here. Will let you know how it goes

*****
Check the front Gravel Guards how they attach. Some owners are having so much tension on the brackets and nuts... they are tearing out. Worse than the indents.

After my reading about their situation... I reduced tension on how mine attach and improved the swinging them out of the way to wipe down after trips.

The straight hinges is mounted to a Curved Front End...

Ask about the Blue OX hitch option for Airstreams. This is a very interesting change how Airstream sells hitches to new owners.

If you 'peak' when they remove the outside skin... do you see SCREWS holding the silver strip to the skin? Also... someone said that he wished he knew they were only going to use a partial strip, that he would have paid for having it extended. I cannot recall if it was this thread, but you find him... ask some questions.

Have a happy happy Smile.