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PA BAMBI II · 08-02-2016, 03:45 PM

I found a sheared rivet head when I arrived at camp today. I am not new to Airstreams and have seen sheared rivet heads before and know the causes (unbalanced running gear, old worn out torsion axles, bumpy roads, combo of all three...)

I was surprised because I have a new axle, balanced wheels, light '64 Bambi and never a problem to this point.

I did add ten pounds of air to the tires before we left...46 lbs in Yokohama Supervan 356's. They were looking a little low and I was never sure how much pressure to run in them. Before fill up, both had around 37 lbs.

Could the added pressure on the tires have caused a rougher ride on this trip thus shearing the rivet?

HiJoeSilver · 08-02-2016, 06:46 PM

"Could the added pressure on the tires have caused a rougher ride on this trip thus shearing the rivet?"

Could have, higher pressure means stiffer ride. Could just be coincidence. Give Yokohama a call and ask them for a load table for your tires so you can determine what the best pressure is for your trailer weight.

stkwhittler · 08-04-2016, 08:35 AM

Sure wish you had more replays to your thread,,, mine won't help you much,,

But,, hopefully by me jumping in here we will both learn something,, we have just put Michlin tires on the 89 Excella and the tire shop wanted to put 50lb in them,, I have fixed a few rivets in the tt but the folks we bought it from had visited EVERY state in the country, including Alaska. So it has been around,, the rivets don't bother me as much as the apparent flexing of the skin,,

Where I'm going is,, I feel 40lb or so should be good on these tires but who am I,, like you I feel too much air is hard on the tt,,, I first messaged Michlin and they told me 30 lb,, sounded a little lite so recon tacked by phone and the youngster on the other end said that since I had not been to a scale and verified exact weight( I told him the tt weighed 6500/7000) he would have to say put in max pressure of 50lb,,, obviously he wants to cover his end and is not concerned with the life of the tt,,

I sure hope this will get us both some info as like you I really want to be gentle on my friend,,

HiJoeSilver · 08-05-2016, 03:18 AM

Page 22 has inflation tables for Michelin ms2 ltx as long as they're 16"+

http://www.michelintruck.com/assets/...k_Sept2011.pdf

Pages 19-20 might help on the yakahamas, with a little conversion,

http://global.yokohamatire.net/pdf/t...ast_Africa.pdf

HiJoeSilver · 08-05-2016, 03:28 AM

Recall on ms2/ltx, not sure if this affects you or others

http://m.michelinman.com/US/en/help/...tude-tour.html

xrvr · 08-05-2016, 07:43 AM

Three year old recall. Any if those tires still in use would be reaching its lifespan.

franklyfrank · 08-05-2016, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stkwhittler

Sure wish you had more replays to your thread,,, mine won't help you much,,

But,, hopefully by me jumping in here we will both learn something,, we have just put Michlin tires on the 89 Excella and the tire shop wanted to put 50lb in them,, I have fixed a few rivets in the tt but the folks we bought it from had visited EVERY state in the country, including Alaska. So it has been around,, the rivets don't bother me as much as the apparent flexing of the skin,,

Where I'm going is,, I feel 40lb or so should be good on these tires but who am I,, like you I feel too much air is hard on the tt,,, I first messaged Michlin and they told me 30 lb,, sounded a little lite so recon tacked by phone and the youngster on the other end said that since I had not been to a scale and verified exact weight( I told him the tt weighed 6500/7000) he would have to say put in max pressure of 50lb,,, obviously he wants to cover his end and is not concerned with the life of the tt,,

I sure hope this will get us both some info as like you I really want to be gentle on my friend,,

I have the same Michelin LTX tires and I run them at 52 PSI on a AS that weighs travel ready about 7,400 lbs. I like to firm it up a bit and I still get a very nice ride. Everything in the trailer stays were we put it. Calculating your AS weight you should be ok with 41 to 43 lbs. I don't think however that it will soften you ride by much. Besides the pressure will build up over 50psi soon as you are on the road a while.

Jacob D · 08-05-2016, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA BAMBI II

I found a sheared rivet head when I arrived at camp today. I am not new to Airstreams and have seen sheared rivet heads before and know the causes (unbalanced running gear, old worn out torsion axles, bumpy roads, combo of all three...)

I was surprised because I have a new axle, balanced wheels, light '64 Bambi and never a problem to this point.

I did add ten pounds of air to the tires before we left...46 lbs in Yokohama Supervan 356's. They were looking a little low and I was never sure how much pressure to run in them. Before fill up, both had around 37 lbs.

Could the added pressure on the tires have caused a rougher ride on this trip thus shearing the rivet?

You can find a "CAT"scale at almost any truck stop and weigh your trailer. I use GoodYear Marathon tires and found on their web site a chart giving the pressures for a wide range of weights. Yokohama probably does too. Having said that, the aluminum "pop" rivets used inside can lose their heads just from heat expansion and contraction or flexing as you go down the road. I have probably replaced 20 or 30 rivets in mine over the years mostly along the rib where the front cap is fastened.

floridalarry · 08-05-2016, 02:33 PM

I had purchased 225 75R 15 to replace 6 year old 225 75R 15 tires on my '66 Globe Trotter. The tire shop up-sold me to E Rated tires. I was running 80 lbs as required by the tire manufacturer. They said that would not be liable for blowouts or damage if I ran tires at a lower pressure. When I went to Lewisburg and spoke with the TMPS people, they told me that at 80 lbs I would be popping rivets. Sure enough I had 10 popped interior rivets. Re-riveted and bought 205 75R 15 Maxxis' at 60 lbs.

HiJoeSilver · 08-05-2016, 05:50 PM

Was up pretty late last night looking into this. Best bet is call the mfg and ask. I also found some other interesting sources.

http://www.tiresafety.com/images/tir...t%20manual.pdf

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/...+inflation.pdf

Between the two you should be able to get a good idea with your tire specifics and load rating. There were some interesting notes in there with regasds to P tire pressure and increasing beyond a certain point doesn't add more load but affects handling and speed rating.

guskmg · 08-05-2016, 11:35 PM

Tire balance and pressure do have a bearing on the problem. Be as accurate as you can. Airstream recommends max sidewall pressure for what thats worth. I recently moved a bunch of weight aft installing Lew's solar lithium system, probably 200#s. On my return trip home I noticed a popped rivet on the outer skin near the upper rear entry door corner. The point is that the shell is moving all the time even when stationary due to expansion and contraction from heating and cooling. The aluminum colored stains you see around your trailer is dust caused by this friction just like dust from sanding with sand paper.
guskmg

ROBERTSUNRUS · 08-05-2016, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PA BAMBI II

I found a sheared rivet head when I arrived at camp today. I am not new to Airstreams and have seen sheared rivet heads before and know the causes (unbalanced running gear, old worn out torsion axles, bumpy roads, combo of all three...)

I was surprised because I have a new axle, balanced wheels, light '64 Bambi and never a problem to this point.

I did add ten pounds of air to the tires before we left...46 lbs in Yokohama Supervan 356's. They were looking a little low and I was never sure how much pressure to run in them. Before fill up, both had around 37 lbs.

Could the added pressure on the tires have caused a rougher ride on this trip thus shearing the rivet?

Hi, unless you had your tires and wheels spin balanced on your trailer, your running gear is not totally balanced. Trailer brake drums are not balanced. That is why I run Centramatics on my trailer.

Arcticfox · 08-06-2016, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

I have the same Michelin LTX tires and I run them at 52 PSI on a AS that weighs travel ready about 7,400 lbs. I like to firm it up a bit and I still get a very nice ride. Everything in the trailer stays were we put it. Calculating your AS weight you should be ok with 41 to 43 lbs. I don't think however that it will soften you ride by much. Besides the pressure will build up over 50psi soon as you are on the road a while.

Wow. 40-50 lbs sure seems low from what I've read. Mind you with that being said, maybe what I've been reading has been out to lunch. I have been running mine at 60 cold and my 28' have a scale weight of 6500. The past couple trips I've had 3 rivet shear over about 10,000 miles.
Might be time to take a second look at pressures.

You folks that are running the 16" Mich in the 40-50 ranges, what are you seeing the pressure go to after running for a while? In my case my daytime pressure can go to 68-70 while running in the heat of the day according to my TMS

Thanks in advance for any input

Cheers
Doug

Sent from my iPad using Airstream Forums

Bob662 · 08-06-2016, 07:29 AM

Doesn't CanAm Andy recommend running the Michelins at 44 psi? That's what I recall, and he's my go-to guy for all things Airstream-related.

HiJoeSilver · 08-07-2016, 02:50 AM

I think we're having a problem with the different versions of the ms2 tires. There are P, P extended load, and LT E rated versions. They have different max pressures. The Ps have 44psi max, the P XLs have 50 psi max, and the LT Es have 80 psi max. Think this explains a big chunk of the different pressures.
You've got to be sure you're comparing apples to apples. Little differences in aspect ratios can make difference as well.
This table shows how many different possible tires we could be comparing.
http://www.monro.com/datasheets/Michelin-LTX-M-S2.pdf

Ultradog · 08-07-2016, 03:38 AM

What are you towing it with?
A stiff suspensioned 1 ton will beat a trailer more than a softer suspensioned 1/2 ton will.
That's one thing those who recommend a gargantuan TV don't take into account.

PA BAMBI II · 08-08-2016, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultradog

What are you towing it with?
A stiff suspensioned 1 ton will beat a trailer more than a softer suspensioned 1/2 ton will.
That's one thing those who recommend a gargantuan TV don't take into account.

2012 Chrysler Town & Country minivan...600 lb. bars. We're not overdoing it.

Thanks for your insight, however. What you say is true.

xrvr · 08-08-2016, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultradog

What are you towing it with?
A stiff suspensioned 1 ton will beat a trailer more than a softer suspensioned 1/2 ton will.
That's one thing those who recommend a gargantuan TV don't take into account.

Correct WD bars help mitigate some of the effects of stiff suspensions. s. Lighter bars for heavier suspension. Good luck

Bob662 · 08-08-2016, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avionstream

Correct WD bars help mitigate some of the effects of stiff suspensions. Lighter bars for heavier suspension.

But doesn't wheelbase also factor into bar selection? Andy at CanAm suggested 1,400 lb. bars for us -- towing FC25 with a crewcab F-150. He said stronger bars were needed to transfer enough weight to the front suspension, given the relatively long wheelbase.