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Old 03-11-2017, 04:32 PM   #1
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 71
HELP ME SAVE my Second WIND! '60 Safari

Hi All-
Thanks for reading.
I'm over two years into what I told my wife would be a 6 month project. I purchased a 1960 Safari in January of 2015, about a week after our youngest son was born, incidentally. After some highs and lows and a big treehouse project distraction, I've been hitting it pretty hard lately.

I'll share some photos and bring you up to date, but I'm mostly hoping to get some help making some decisions at this point.

Photo 1: I found the Safari sitting in a field without some other treasures while I was driving around on New Years Day. I tracked down the owner and cold called him. He sold it to me for $3200.

Photo 2/3: Apart from the belly pan, the exterior was in pretty good shape. The interior was not. The rear bath was especially deteriorated. I could push through the floor with my finger.

Photo 9: With the help of some friends I was able to lift the shell off the frame ( I later built a gurney lift), which revealed some pretty sketch frame rot. Another friend was able to repair the frame and then I coated it with POR 15.

Photo 6: The belly pan was a terrible terrible ordeal, but I got it back on.

Photo 4/5/7/8 Now, the shell is back on a riveted up solid. I've re skinned the entire door and door within a door, and now it actually fits snuggly and evenly in the shell opening. I've installed two fantastic fans, and patched the roof top AC hole in favor of an in-cabin domestic cool cat. The lights are on, and I'm currently repairing the access doors.

I plan to use a similar layout to original, but I'm not restoring it to original show room floor condition. A gaucho or dinette will be in the front. Mid kitchen - original stove in original position and a short refrigerator next to the door. I plan to instal two twin beds that will hopefully expand, maybe to become a super bed, as I've seen on here. The bath will still be in the rear, but I'm moving the toilet to the street side, and shower to curb side.

Eventually, I'll be purchasing a water heater ( probably a 6 gallon), a short refrigerator, and a domestic cool cat heat pump. I'm not sure about additional heat source right now, but I sure would like to patch the original furnace opening.

Now, hopefully you're still here. If so, maybe you can share some advice. My questions:

1. The original battery box, do I make a new one to fit modern batteries or do I move the batteries inside?

2. The refrigerator: I'm considering a 2 or 3 way. Do I need to install a floor vent and a roof top vent or can I install a floor vent and a side wall vent as long as it's above the top of the fridge? Should I plan to install a fan whatever I end up doing?

3. Wiring: Please recommend a forum thread that provides excellent insight. I've still got to work out that entire schematic.

I'm sure I've got more questions. Thanks again.

Looking forward to hearing from you all.
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Old 03-13-2017, 11:12 AM   #2
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 71
Hoping for more views. Thanks.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:44 AM   #3
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1994 30' Excella
alexandria , Kentucky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teilhet View Post
Hi All-
Thanks for reading.
I'm over two years into what I told my wife would be a 6 month project. I purchased a 1960 Safari in January of 2015, about a week after our youngest son was born, incidentally. After some highs and lows and a big treehouse project distraction, I've been hitting it pretty hard lately.

I have worked on trailers from 1980 and newer but the concepts are similar.
Time - There's no way around it you have to figure out where to carve out some time in your busy life. This can be the toughest part. Even if you only get an hour to work on the trailer - go do something!



Now, hopefully you're still here. If so, maybe you can share some advice. My questions:

1. The original battery box, do I make a new one to fit modern batteries or do I move the batteries inside? I made a battery box up that fit behind the lp gas bottles on the A-frame. It is large enough for two group 27 batteries. Batteries inside will need to be AGM type and not need to be vented. Either way make the space big enough for at least two group 27 or a couple of 6v golf cart batteries. Install a good cutoff switch and a new 12 volt panel.

2. The refrigerator: I'm considering a 2 or 3 way. Do I need to install a floor vent and a roof top vent or can I install a floor vent and a side wall vent as long as it's above the top of the fridge? Should I plan to install a fan whatever I end up doing?
Figure out the refrigerator you want to install and download the installation directions. I would just put in a 2 way. You can do either type of venting you have listed. The critical part of this installation is the design of space around and especially behind the refrigerator. You must build the area so you get the chimney effect behind the refrigerator. I installed a 6" inch fan ball bearing computer fan near the top of the chimney on my trailer. (You can barely hear it run). The fan is now only used to get the frig going quicker before a camping trip. Once underway the fan is very rarely used on a hot day since I improved the installation of the refrigerator. I would put a fan in as a just in case scenario.

3. Wiring: Please recommend a forum thread that provides excellent insight. I've still got to work out that entire schematic.

I don't know of a good forum. I would work on your schematic to figure out just what you want to power. Original lights or new LED ceiling lights, more convenience outlets, built-in inverter, etc...? I would size the wire (don't skimp) as if your installing all incandescent fixtures even though you may go LED lighting. Ground wires are just as important as power wires. I would put motor loads such as the pump and ceiling fans on a separate circuit (10 or 12 ga wiring) so there may be less light dimming when in use. Use a SEE-LEVEL tank monitoring system which is simple and easy to install since your starting from scratch. I would also put in a Trimetric 2030 or similar device to monitor the batteries.

I'm sure I've got more questions. Thanks again.

Looking forward to hearing from you all.
see response above.
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Old 03-22-2017, 06:53 AM   #4
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1957 26' Overlander
Winston Salem , North Carolina
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4 years in on my restoration--I feel ya, bro.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:01 AM   #5
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1955 22' Safari
1967 26' Overlander
1955 22' Flying Cloud
Clear Lake Shores , Texas
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Some help

1. I would urge you to install 1 or more AGM batteries inside. They are maintenance free, have very low self discharge and do not off gas.
2. I suggest a 2 way fridge. 3 way units offer minimal benefit and most folks run their fridges on LP while traveling.
3. Decide where you need power and then lay out a wiring arrangement accordingly. Remember you have 3 electrical systems: running lights (12 volt from TV), AC system (110 volt from shore power/generator, etc) and 12 volt appliances and interior lights (from battery/converter/solar, etc).
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:01 AM   #6
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Fleming Island , Florida
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For the schematic, go to Airstream.com, support, manuals and download a manual for a late 90's early 2000's trailer. It will have a multi-page full schematic for the whole family of trailers. Pick one you like to use as a basis for your wiring. Don't forget safety items like a propane detector.

Depending on your usage model, you might consider a refrigerator like the Vitrifrigo marine series. They are 12 volt or 120, but are very efficient and have relatively low power draw. Your tow vehicle should provide sufficient power while driving, and if you usually have shore power when camping, it will work fine. If you do a lot of boondocking, however, a generator or solar power will be required. I'm probably going to install one if/when I have to, or want to, replace my Dometic 2-way.

Al
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:15 AM   #7
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crispyboy View Post
see response above.


Excellent, thanks. I may go for the indoor golf cart batteries and leave the original battery box for tools.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:17 AM   #8
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by BambiTex View Post
1. I would urge you to install 1 or more AGM batteries inside. They are maintenance free, have very low self discharge and do not off gas.
2. I suggest a 2 way fridge. 3 way units offer minimal benefit and most folks run their fridges on LP while traveling.
3. Decide where you need power and then lay out a wiring arrangement accordingly. Remember you have 3 electrical systems: running lights (12 volt from TV), AC system (110 volt from shore power/generator, etc) and 12 volt appliances and interior lights (from battery/converter/solar, etc).


Thanks, I needed a push in one way or another regarding the fridge. And it's sounds like AGM batteries are the way to go.
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Old 03-23-2017, 06:17 AM   #9
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
For the schematic, go to Airstream.com, support, manuals and download a manual for a late 90's early 2000's trailer. It will have a multi-page full schematic for the whole family of trailers. Pick one you like to use as a basis for your wiring. Don't forget safety items like a propane detector.

Depending on your usage model, you might consider a refrigerator like the Vitrifrigo marine series. They are 12 volt or 120, but are very efficient and have relatively low power draw. Your tow vehicle should provide sufficient power while driving, and if you usually have shore power when camping, it will work fine. If you do a lot of boondocking, however, a generator or solar power will be required. I'm probably going to install one if/when I have to, or want to, replace my Dometic 2-way.

Al


I hadn't thought about that resource for wiring schematics, thanks.
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Old 03-23-2017, 07:04 AM   #10
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1983 31' Airstream310
Hillsburgh , Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teilhet View Post
Excellent, thanks. I may go for the indoor golf cart batteries and leave the original battery box for tools.

Okay, I'm pretty impressed you have gotten this far and you have invested some long hours to get here but from now on you need to work smart, for this is the really hard part that seems to trip up 90% of AS renovations.

You have an axle weight limit. Unless you replace that old tired axle or have replaced it, that is the limit of weight the trailer can weigh. This is the really hard part, trying to include all you want and need to go camping and yet stay within that limit. These old trailers didn't have all the modern conviences that we want in a modern trailer. You now need to consider any and all weight going into the build and trust me, building stuff as light as you can is a lot harder than building it normally. For example, my interior cabinets have no floors, backs or tops; they are a face frame construction with minimal gables, just enough to mount a drawer slide and the counter top is the top of the cabinet.

If you work smart, it will help you to not have to work hard. What I mean is, time spent laying out your trailer properly now will save you many hours of labour and aggravation later on.

Figure out which model of fridge, Platinum Cat heater or Precision Temp water heater and heating system, convection microwave, furnace, inverters and converters you want in the trailer. Get the electrical requirements but also weight specs for these items. Also these items will have installation requirements built into the specs telling you what electrical, space and ventilation requirements they need.

Now layout in real time with all these systems in mind. Do this with cardboard, luan for interior gables, plywood, whatever you have handy. It doesn't have to look pretty, it just has to give you the feel for the spaces to help you decide where all these major items go, which will then allow you to figure out where you need the rest, lights, switches and batteries. This will aid you in designing an electrical system for YOUR trailer.

Please keep one major thing in mind......weight; where that weight goes in relation to your axle will determine how your trailer tows. Too much weight ahead of the axle and you put too much stress on your tongue, hitch and rear axle of TV; too much weight in the rear and you will have an untowable trailer with trailer sway.

This is now how anal you need to be concerned about weight. You can't just willy nilly throw a bunch of tools into the battery box without considering how much that weight will affect the weight distribution of the trailer. Those golf cart batteries are significantly heavier than your typical 12 volt battery, etc, etc.

The hard mental work now starts. This is where it now becomes more a science than a design.

Cheers
Tony

PS If you haven't already thought about replacing that old tired axle, do it now! It will at least give you a known axle rating.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:59 AM   #11
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I just happened to open the frame picture and noticed that your axle isn't torsion but sprung. While load limits are not as affected by age on sprung suspensions as opposed to a torsion suspension it still maybe in your best interest to inspect hubs and springs for signs of cracks, bad bearing races, shackle bushing wear and tear or spring sag before you go too far. If at the end of the build at least with the spring set up you could possibly add a leaf and go with a heavier duty axle with heavier duty hubs that would be easy to change out.

Cheers
Tony
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:06 PM   #12
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1960 22' Safari
Johnson City , Tennessee
Join Date: Jan 2015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isuzusweet View Post
I just happened to open the frame picture and noticed that your axle isn't torsion but sprung. While load limits are not as affected by age on sprung suspensions as opposed to a torsion suspension it still maybe in your best interest to inspect hubs and springs for signs of cracks, bad bearing races, shackle bushing wear and tear or spring sag before you go too far. If at the end of the build at least with the spring set up you could possibly add a leaf and go with a heavier duty axle with heavier duty hubs that would be easy to change out.



Cheers

Tony


Excellent input. I really appreciate the push. I have been taking a learn as I go approach this far, but I've been stressing about this stage for awhile. I have done some of what you mentioned regarding appliances, but still need to educate myself on things like converters and batteries.

I happen to have a friend who designs electrical systems for helicopters and was a residential electrician on the side. He should be an great resource.

Regarding the axle, my Father in Law is a mech. Engineer who worked in the tractor trailer industry, so he's given the ok for the axle and leaf springs.

I will heed your advice, this week hopefully, and lay everything out with cardboard.

I'm definitely excited to be getting to this stage and I greatly appreciate your thoughts. Very much so.
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