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Old 09-05-2018, 07:27 AM   #1
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Found during black tank dump...

No, no that!

While dumping the blank tank at our site this weekend, I took a little extra time just to make sure we did a thorough job. I was also making us of our new see-through 45 degree hose connector. Fascinating to watch....

Anyway, something caught my attention exiting:

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Anyone had wires exit their tanks? The ends of the wires look like they have been cut, not as if they were. Objected and came loose. I am not aware of any wires that are supposed to be in either tank?

I had both black and grey valves open at the time. Hard to believe that this would be the usual trash accumulated during production. I know I didn’t eat it..
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:34 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleBad View Post
No, no that!

While dumping the blank tank at our site this weekend, I took a little extra time just to make sure we did a thorough job. I was also making us of our new see-through 45 degree hose connector. Fascinating to watch....

Anyway, something caught my attention exiting:

Attachment 321551

Anyone had wires exit their tanks? The ends of the wires look like they have been cut, not as if they were. Objected and came loose. I am not aware of any wires that are supposed to be in either tank?

I had both black and grey valves open at the time. Hard to believe that this would be the usual trash accumulated during production. I know I didn’t eat it..
Interesting to know how you got it out of the flow.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:36 AM   #3
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What have you been eating!?!?!


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Old 09-05-2018, 07:46 AM   #4
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Someone used your black tank as a trash can when they were building your trailer.

My trailer has rivet stems, shavings, and tiny scraps of metal inside the cabinets, behind the couch, and under the beds
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:27 AM   #5
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I have heard of people tough enough to eat nails for breakfast but never wire......
I guess a little Ducolax helps all kinds of things move along.....


Chuck it up to construction debris while during the trailer build.
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Old 09-05-2018, 08:34 AM   #6
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Wires for your black tank fluid sensor, clipped to proper length at install, excess wire dumped into the tank. Surely must be a better way to construct a trailer. Bad work habits.
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:05 AM   #7
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Just sloppy work at the factory...doubt it was intentional other than not retrieving it..or someone was having a bad day!
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Old 09-05-2018, 09:27 AM   #8
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Everyone probably has trash in their black tank.....and maybe in the fresh water tank too. Rushed construction, it takes time to pick up the scraps.
You just happened to be lucky and some of yours came out.
If you didn't have a clear section, you wouldn't know.

I wonder what else is in there?
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:04 AM   #9
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at least it was something small enough to flow out
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:04 AM   #10
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I worked for 45 years and was always proud of whatever I did. When I had my toilet changed to a taller/newer model, afterwards I removed 3 green shop rags, one at a time that were clogging up my black tank line. I actually feel kinda sorry for these type of workers. I guess life just wasn't that cruel for me to cause this type of reaction. That wire could have caused some serious back ups in some remote places. Good for you that you were on the ball to remove it. Safe travels.
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Old 09-05-2018, 11:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shacksman View Post
Interesting to know how you got it out of the flow.


It got stuck in the 45 degree bend...
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I had both black and grey valves open at the time.

I'd always been taught since the 1950s-60s to NOT open both valves at the same time, because otherwise you'll get black tank backwash into the gray tank, & defeat the purpose of having 2 separate tanks. You may now be experiencing increasing odors in the sinks/shower & gray tank/vents as a result.



I'd suggest that you do a few disinfecting then clear water flushes of your gray tank now - then ....



In the future, dump & flush your black tank 1st, then go on to dump & flush the gray tank afterwards - with only 1 valve open at a time, in order to avoid mixing/backwashing, & to utilize the gray dump/flush to further wash out the outlet.


As to odd stuff coming out, I too had a medium sized plastic bag come out on a recent dump since getting a clear elbow - but it was not "factory equipment" being a 1960 Avion!



Who knows what went by unseen before then!?



Cheers!
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Old 09-05-2018, 12:17 PM   #13
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Wouldn't drain traps stop odor from the gray tank?
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Old 09-05-2018, 02:41 PM   #14
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Another story, but in reverse. I was talking to a fellow sucking out a giant under ground holding tank at the Oshkosh fly in. They have 4 lanes of dump stations 4 stations deep. That has got to be the largest dump station in the world. I asked him what was the most comon thing he has to fish out of the drain plumbing? To my surprise he said it was complete slinkys. I guess some people stand up holding their hoses and some how they slip out. That just is hard to believe.
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Old 09-05-2018, 07:04 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
I'd always been taught since the 1950s-60s to NOT open both valves at the same time, because otherwise you'll get black tank backwash into the gray tank, & defeat the purpose of having 2 separate tanks. You may now be experiencing increasing odors in the sinks/shower & gray tank/vents as a result.
All depends on how the tanks are plumbed. I always dump black and then gray. I was told that on our AS the tanks join outside the tanks. I wait until the black is empty so no backwash. I had them both open after about 5 different flushes of the black - using the black tank clean system with hose attached to fill back up before dumping it again. Each time it got “cleaner”. Works well and believe me it’s clean as a whistle. No smells at all.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:11 AM   #16
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Even when your black tank is “empty” there is always residual stuff in there. If you open the gray valve with the black valve also open gray water will rush into the black tank then flow back out to the outlet. That creates the possibility that some of that back flow will also end up in your gray tank because that valve is open. Hence the advice to dump black first, close valve, open gray valve and let it wash as much residual black water out of you sewer hose as possible.
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Old 09-06-2018, 07:30 AM   #17
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Even when your black tank is “empty” there is always residual stuff in there. If you open the gray valve with the black valve also open gray water will rush into the black tank then flow back out to the outlet. That creates the possibility that some of that back flow will also end up in your gray tank because that valve is open. Hence the advice to dump black first, close valve, open gray valve and let it wash as much residual black water out of you sewer hose as possible.


The procedure I’ve been using is to:

1) completely dump the black (grey valve closed)
2) leave black valve open, lift slinky at the trailer exit so it is above the dump valve height, open gray valve to dump grey - this forces grey water back in to black tank - about 8-10 seconds then CLOSE grey valve and drop the slinky so the black continues to dump
3) repeat step 2 two more times
4) close black valve, open gray valve and let the rest of the grey tank drain

I don’t think this creates a significant contamination risk. I’m open to correction if I’m missing something....
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Old 09-06-2018, 11:41 AM   #18
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The procedure I’ve been using is to:

1) completely dump the black (grey valve closed)
2) leave black valve open, lift slinky at the trailer exit so it is above the dump valve height, open gray valve to dump grey - this forces grey water back in to black tank - about 8-10 seconds then CLOSE grey valve and drop the slinky so the black continues to dump
3) repeat step 2 two more times
4) close black valve, open gray valve and let the rest of the grey tank drain

I don’t think this creates a significant contamination risk. I’m open to correction if I’m missing something....

I think you can still get backwash with both valves open, even with you raising then lowering the slinky after closing the grey valve, since it's open with the black open to, & stuff can flow around in there.


There is no way to know, let alone stop, that crossflow with both valves open, regardless of raising the slinky, cuz all that does is prevent the gray water from draining out, but it's still sloshing around in there between gray & black sides with both valves open.




So it's better to add clear water (& any Dawn, bleach or other additions at your discretion) to the black tank, then dump it again, repeat with clear if you added stuff to the 1st flush (or 3, 4, 5x if it suits you). That's what I usually do, although not always with the extra black tank flushes at the camp site.




"CRH - Wouldn't drain traps stop odor from the gray tank?"


Yes, the P-trap/J-trap on the sinks/shower do block sewer gasses just like at home, but in the trailers you have the roof vent just feet from the window - so that smell recirculates into the windows &/or roof vent; plus you're contaminating the gray tank & system with fecal material (poop!), e.coli, etc. with the backwash, then it's into that side of the system.



"UncleBad - ... All depends on how the tanks are plumbed. I always dump black and then gray. I was told that on our AS the tanks join outside the tanks...."



I'm pretty sure that all trailers & RVs are plumbed with separate gate or other valves outside of the tanks, so that one can control what they dump where. Ergo, the backwash contamination issue is the same on any AS.


Just to be clear, in my first post I meant that you should dump black 1st (including any flushing/cleaning cycles of dumping), close that, then move on to dump the gray side (& any flushing/cleaning) - but not with the gray backwashing into the black tank trick noted above.



I checked the 1960 Avion manual for ours, & this was the procedure that they say as well - black, close, gray, close. In our case we have no factory gray tank (yet ) - so I leave gray open - but close it during the black side dump/flush - the reopen gray when done (if at hookups or gray water irrigation).


Think about it - why would they bother with supplying separate systems & valves at all!?



In other words - don't mix yer sh*t!



Contrary to that 1960s-70s saying about "Get yer sh*t together, man."!




Cheers!
Tom
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:01 PM   #19
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Wires for your black tank fluid sensor, clipped to proper length at install, excess wire dumped into the tank. Surely must be a better way to construct a trailer. Bad work habits.
Tell me about it...I couldn't agree more about the bad work habits.


I found a balled up McDonald's wrapper in my front umbilical poke through when I took the wooden cover panel off to add a subwoofer. If they can't be bothered to throw out a paper wrapper, or dispose of short waste cables properly, just think of what the heck might be floating around your rig that you don't know about.
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Old 09-06-2018, 12:08 PM   #20
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A not so little wire

I went to close my black tank and could not do so. I bought a dozen liters of coca-cola and put it in my black tank. No good. Took it to my AS dealer and they pulled it apart to find a piece of yellow wire about fourteen inches long in the gate.

We then had a rather disputatious conversation about payment. I refused to pay as I don’t excrete yellow wire in my daily ablutions. AS eventually did the right thing...

But I continue to wonder what else is in my tanks.
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