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04-27-2010, 05:13 PM
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#21
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganaraska
Andy do you mean $1200 for the panel + 8 hours labor? In that case $2200 for the panel, other parts and materials, labor, and tax would be very reasonable.
If the $1200 includes parts and labor then $2200 is a ripoff.
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Ball park, segments cost about $1100.00 and quarter panels cost a little more.
The price for labor varies sometimes with the year, because of moldings, etc.
The above prices are for complete labor, sheet metal, rivets and sealers, but no sales tax.
If shipping the part in from Airstream was extra, then that must be added.
In my opinion, as the author of the only Airstream crash book, even at today's inflated prices, what you paid, should have included a free trip for your family to Disneyland, or maybe even Hawaii.
Shops that charge insurance companies excessively, only contribute to the insurance rates increasing, or sometimes even having that customer's insurance cancelled.
Insurance policies provide financial protection for the owners of an Airstream, as well as many other things. Submitting a reasonable claim, does not except in repeated cases, cause someones policy to be cancelled, or for their rates to increase.
The policy wording usually says the insured is covered for their "negligence". In simpler terms, that means "mistakes".
Mistakes, we all make, sometimes small, and sometimes big. But, we all make them.
If you have a policy covering damages to your Airstream, for heavens sakes, use it.
Andy
Andy
However, many dealers receive their parts in a new coach, therefore freight cost is zero.
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04-27-2010, 05:22 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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All Airstream body work, should be inspected, prior to acceptance.
If within reason, the repair job is not up to reasonable standards, then you, as the insured, or customer, have the right to refuse the work. You can make that refusal on a repair order, or send a special letter, stating your objections to the quality of repair.
The next thing to do, is document and document, and inform Airstream including photo's.
Airstream cannot and does not control what a dealer may or may not do, but Airstream certainly can withdraw their agreement with any dealer, any time.
Airstream, in spite of some glitches here and there, still want the new coach owners, to be happy, before, during and especially after the sale.
Andy
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04-27-2010, 05:29 PM
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#23
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Restorations done right
Commercial Member
1962 26' Overlander
1961 26' Overlander
Vintage Kin Owner
Currently Looking...
Baltimore
, Maryland
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,545
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I would like to see some photos of said inferior work.
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04-27-2010, 05:54 PM
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#24
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inland RV Center, In
All Airstream body work, should be inspected, prior to acceptance.
If within reason, the repair job is not up to reasonable standards, then you, as the insured, or customer, have the right to refuse the work. You can make that refusal on a repair order, or send a special letter, stating your objections to the quality of repair.
The next thing to do, is document and document, and inform Airstream including photo's.
Airstream cannot and does not control what a dealer may or may not do, but Airstream certainly can withdraw their agreement with any dealer, any time.
Airstream, in spite of some glitches here and there, still want the new coach owners, to be happy, before, during and especially after the sale.
Andy
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one problem is that the shop will not release the vehicle without payment. then they will add daily storage charges until the matter is settled. how do you add a refusal to the repair order after the work is done?
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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04-27-2010, 08:14 PM
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#25
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
one problem is that the shop will not release the vehicle without payment. then they will add daily storage charges until the matter is settled. how do you add a refusal to the repair order after the work is done?
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You can sign the repair order, as requested.
However, you are free to whatever you wish, on that repair order.
You can say "poor workmanship", "workmanship has caused loss of value", "inferior quality", etc.
Then, if the dealer refuses to reasonably cooperate, you can always go to small claims court, especially if the charges were excessive and the workmanship is not up to reasonable standards.
Getting an estimate from another dealer always helps, along with before and after photo's.
Having good credentials for many years with the Airstream program, is a huge plus.
I just made GMAC insurance, back off and pay a claim, without any changes. But, it took over 2 weeks to get it done.
GMAC claimed that they could go "on line" and determine the value of an Airstream. I told them, and convinced them that since most Airstream owners continuously upgrade their coaches, and have bills to prove it, that the only way they could determine a coaches value, is by having it personally inspected, by someone with Airstream credentials.
They finally agreed, that they were indeed "WRONG", and paid the claim in full, minus the deductible.
Final Score:
Consumer 1
Insurance Co. 0
Pays to know your business.
Andy
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04-27-2010, 08:37 PM
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#26
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Do trailer repair facilities in California fall under the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR)?
How about motorhome repair facilities?
Is there such a bureau in Virginia?
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04-27-2010, 09:18 PM
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#27
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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the laws amy be different in CA. i've worked in the auto repair industry for a number of years, a few lives ago. as a worker and as a customer, i've never seen a repair order given to a customer to sign off on. the only exception might have been for an insurance claim. in that case i believe it was a separate form and more of a release for the check.
maybe it should be required.
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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04-27-2010, 10:22 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Foster
Do trailer repair facilities in California fall under the Bureau of Automotive Repair (BAR)?
How about motorhome repair facilities?
Is there such a bureau in Virginia?
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If the shop has a state automotive license, which they must do if they sell trailers, then they are under state BAR rules.
But, if they do not sell trailers or motorhomes, or work on drive lines or engines, then they do not come under the state BAR rules.
If the shop is not required to have the license, the state can visit that shop, but they cannot tell them what to do, or how to do it.
Andy
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04-27-2010, 10:34 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richinny
the laws amy be different in CA. i've worked in the auto repair industry for a number of years, a few lives ago. as a worker and as a customer, i've never seen a repair order given to a customer to sign off on. the only exception might have been for an insurance claim. in that case i believe it was a separate form and more of a release for the check.
maybe it should be required.
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In California, if you do not have a customer sign a "repair order", authorizing the work, they can refuse to pay you when the work is done, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Further, if the shop does not have the customer sign "off" on the repair order, that states, "I certify that repairs have been made to my entire satisfaction", then again they do not have to pay you.
If the customer wishes to take delivery of the coach, they must sign off. However, they are free to sign under "Protest", and make any statement they wish, on the repair order.
If the customer refuses to sign, the police will not make the dealer deliver the coach. Then if the dealer wishes, he can sell the coach on a "lien sale".
Of course, the customer is always free to take a dealer or shop to court, and/or hire an attorney.
It can, sometimes, get very messy and unpleasant.
But, at least in California, that's the way it is. The shop or dealer is some what protected from a "free loader".
Andy
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04-27-2010, 11:04 PM
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#30
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Rivet Master
2011 34' Classic
Westchester Cty.NY
, / Miami FL
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,122
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thanks for all the info :-)
__________________
Ricky
2012 F150 Super Crew 5-1/2' bed Ecoboost 4x4 3.73 elec. lock diff. Propride hitch
give life. kidney & pancreas transplant 9/9/06
Ingrid-my unofficial '"World's Oldest Streamer" 1909-2008 R.I.P.
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04-27-2010, 11:13 PM
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#31
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2 Rivet Member
2009 23' International
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
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Hi this is Tom the original poster.
I will be posting the pictures of damage and repair tomorrow. I also feel the price was excessive as well. But I'll let you guys weigh in. Unfortunately I signed the release so I'm not sure what sort of position i'm in. Talk to you soon. Oh and I forgot to ad the roof now leaks as well. Fun stuff!
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04-28-2010, 11:19 PM
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#32
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
I had a rear upper left-side panel replaced and it is virtually impossible to tell it had been done. I have challenged folks on occasion to tell me which panel it was.
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And that's the only way it should ever be.
Andy
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04-29-2010, 01:17 PM
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#33
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2 Rivet Member
2009 23' International
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
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Here are the damage and repair Pics
Please let me know what you guys think. I'd like to hear your suggestion on moving forward. I did sign the work order. But the roof is leaking and the workmanship in my opinion is questionable.
Here is an external link to the photos as well:
Picasa Web Albums - Tom - Airstream Damage
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04-29-2010, 01:21 PM
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#34
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2 Rivet Member
2009 23' International
Boulder
, Colorado
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59
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Undamaged original left side for reference.
Here is a picture of the undamaged left side. Just as an example of what factory original looks like.
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04-29-2010, 01:27 PM
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#35
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_
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, .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
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ouch.
yeah, i would not be satisfied with that outcome.
is this the FIRST TIME they've replaced an end cap segment?
looks like it.
unfortunately fixing THAT may now require replacing the CENTER section as well.
__________
open the curved rock guards and inspect the window frame/segment area it may be the source of leaks.
take a picture (with close ups) of THAT location too.
without DUMPING on the dealer/shop (as others are doing) these photos SHOULD be adequate evidence for REdoing the repairs...
but it could get messy as 2 WHO pays for new work.
best option now may be j/c for a REdo.
cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.
we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
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04-29-2010, 03:34 PM
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#36
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Rivet Master
Airstream Dealer
Corona
, California
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 16,497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarquis
Please let me know what you guys think. I'd like to hear your suggestion on moving forward. I did sign the work order. But the roof is leaking and the workmanship in my opinion is questionable.
Here is an external link to the photos as well:
Picasa Web Albums - Tom - Airstream Damage
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That replaced segment should be done over again.
The quality of the installation.on a scale of 1 to 10, is about .5 (point 5).
If the dealer does not want to do it, give him a choice.
Refund the money, or have him pay another dealer to do it correctly. Or, see him in small claims court.
The problem with the installation, is the mechanic did not use the proper sequence installing the rivets, as evidenced by the ripples in the bottom seam.
Also, a labor charge of 7 hours would be generous and a material cost of the segment, sealer and rivets, would be a little under $500.00.
Andy
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04-29-2010, 04:25 PM
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#37
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2 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari SS SE
Livermore
, California
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 45
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Re-work
Tom,
I'm amazed that the store owner allowed such poor workmanship to leave his shop. I would spend another $5000. for a lawyer. I sometimes compound sound judgement with stupidity. I once flew to Louisville, KY and sued a guy that owed me $900. for a funeral service and told me I would never collect. He was wrong. Of course, I lost twice the amount in costs but boy did I sleep well in the motel! Go get 'em!
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04-29-2010, 04:32 PM
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#38
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2 Rivet Member
2008 25' Safari SS SE
Livermore
, California
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 45
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correct sequence
Andy,
How about a tutorial on the correct sequence for rivet placement.
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04-29-2010, 04:45 PM
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#39
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Rivet Master
2007 25' Classic
Hydes
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 713
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Looks awful, sorry to say. I agree, I wouldn't accept that under any circumstance. Very poor installation job. When you do shi**y work the shop deserves to be dumped on- excuse the pun.
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04-29-2010, 05:50 PM
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#40
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3 Rivet Member
2007 25' Classic
Port Angeles
, Washington
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 244
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Frankly, until that is remedied I would not be able to sleep. If the dealer so much as twitched at my demands, I would have him in court so fast it would make his head spin.
I wish you well.
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