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Old 07-16-2020, 07:40 AM   #1
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Considering an older AS

Hello!


Brand new to the forum, and to Airstreams, and I have a few questions. This may not be the best forum here, so please redirect me if needed.


We are considering an older (mid-60s) AS. We have not seen it in person yet. It is described as in workable condition, with a few new parts. In general, it looks to need TLC... and maybe a bit more. My thought/hope would be to use it as is and upgrade/restore it when we're not camping. I have good DIY skills and would hope to do much of the work - I also know my limits and am perfectly willing hire someone when something's above my pay grade. So here are my questions:


1) How difficult/expensive is a new axle and everything that goes with it (brakes, hubs, etc.)? (It's a single axle trailer). How critical is this, for a 50 yr. old trailer?


2) How difficult is it to access the mechanicals? By this I mean the plumbing and electric. If I want to put in reading lights over the bed, do I have to pop the inner skin to run wires? Similarly, with plumbing... what if I want to move the kitchen (down the road, so to speak)? How tough is it to run new pex tubing?


3) What about tanks? I'm guessing it has a fresh and waste (black) tank, but not a separate grey tank. How tough to redo that system?


4) Is there anything else I should be asking? When we go see it, I know to check the floor for soft spots and the frame for rust (if I can see it), but what else should I look for?


Basically, I'm trying to figure out how much of a project I'm buying. Or more correctly, how difficult are these projects for someone with tools and skills and a willingness to learn.



TIA!
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:15 AM   #2
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Welcome to the wonderful world of vintage Airstreams!

You ask a lot in your post and there are no short or easy answers but I’ll take a stab at it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
1) How difficult/expensive is a new axle and everything that goes with it (brakes, hubs, etc.)? (It's a single axle trailer). How critical is this, for a 50 yr. old trailer?
Most likely if the axles are original in a trailer that old you will probably need to replace them. My understanding is that assuming you order the correct axles they simply bolt into place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
2) How difficult is it to access the mechanicals? By this I mean the plumbing and electric. If I want to put in reading lights over the bed, do I have to pop the inner skin to run wires? Similarly, with plumbing... what if I want to move the kitchen (down the road, so to speak)? How tough is it to run new pex tubing?
In most airstream trailers accessing things like the water pump and furnace etc. are not too difficult, and some are easier than others but I wouldn’t exactly call it easy. Running new electrical wiring or running a new circuit can be done, but most owners find a way to run the wire along the floor or bulkheads or something like that. If you were doing a full Monty restoration where are you basically take everything down to the “studs” then you could run new wire and if you were particularly ambitious and forward thinking install conduit so future wire runs would be easier. Airstream simply strings wires inside the walls and sometimes even tapes wires to the backside of the exterior skin, no kidding! Moving things like the kitchen and bathroom are major hassles. It can be done but most owners find a way to work with the existing layout. This is not only far less work but it maintains the weight and balance of the trailer so you don’t have to worry about that. Running pex is just about the easiest way to replace the inferior and problematic copper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
3) What about tanks? I'm guessing it has a fresh and waste (black) tank, but not a separate grey tank. How tough to redo that system?
Yes you are correct, Airstream did not start installing Gray tanks until 1972, IIRC. Installing gray tanks can be done, but it is a major hassle and usually only done by those people doing the full Monty restoration. Many if not most owners of that vintage of trailer use a portable blue boy tote instead. Yes that is a hassle, but far less of one then installing a gray tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
4) Is there anything else I should be asking? When we go see it, I know to check the floor for soft spots and the frame for rust (if I can see it), but what else should I look for?
My best advice in this regard is to use this site to find someone in your area willing to go with you on the inspection. There are a number of forum members here who have registered to be inspectors for this very situation. Old airstream owners pretty much know what to look for; things like the window seals, rear end separation issues, leak spots, common corrosion points etc.

Every trailer will suffer from a unique mix of common problems, But it is unlikely that you will discover a new problem that has not already been tackled multiple times in a plethora of different ways by handy and clever airstream owners who fixed and even improved them. You can use the search function in this forum to search for a wide variety of problems and you will find extensive threads, often with lots of pictures, on how those owners tackled them.

What are you getting yourself into? Let me just say, regardless of the vintage and your “great deal” purchase price, you will soon discover that there is no such thing as a “cheap” Airstream, just as there is no such thing as a “cheap” British sports car.

Best of luck, for airstream owners infected with a certain kind of crazy, camping in an airstream is only half the fun.
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:36 AM   #3
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Welcome Aboard 👍

^
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We found our '63 Safari 'behind the barn' 33yrs ago.
Get ready for some work and a LOT of fun.

Good luck..

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Old 07-16-2020, 08:39 AM   #4
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A 60's Airstream... for your first?

Honestly, RUN AWAY!

Honest sellers do exist, but do you have the insight or experience to judge that quality? And do you have ANY idea how long and involved repairing one can be?

Allow me to suggest getting a much newer used Airstream - say five years old or less - to get a road ready "learner", then deciding whether you ever want to get into restoring vintage trailers.

Read a few restoration "full monte" stories here. It starts with replacing a roof vent or two and ends 3 years later with $25,000 spent and "we will be back on the road.in another month or two."
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:43 AM   #5
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You might consider a newer used trailer. I've met a few folks who quite honestly bit off more than they can chew and have thrown in the towel after finding more problems than they originally thought they were going to encounter. Hidden water leaks, lack of parts and their cost all sometimes works against you. Especially as you reach your retirement years and you find that you are limited in travel due to the condition of the trailer.

Axles are not always a simple bolt in replacement and sometime need modifications to accommodate shock mountings etc. Others have noted some of the issues in other posts. Rehab is not always a cheap venture to get into, and in many cases you will spend as much money doing the rehab as you would in buying a newer model.

Even some of the newer used trailers have had their issues over the years. So ask the questions, and if you find a specific model, ask the questions of many of us here who either own that model that can speak to specific items on that trailer or have done the rehab. I'd hate to see your retirement become a situation where your Airstream dream becomes a boat anchor wrapped around your leg.

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Old 07-16-2020, 09:52 AM   #6
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We bought a 1962 Airstream that was in decent shape and had the major things already upgraded (axle and electrical). We mainly did cosmetic work, but did do some plumbing work....the PEX is super easy to work with. Mine didn’t have a black or grey tank when we got it. We just use the aforementioned blue boy (get the kind you can tow behind your TV to go dump it), and we use a portable toilet so we don’t need a black tank. Works for us.

I love the look of the vintage airstreams, and they are easier to fix. I have fixed everything my self with stuff I can find at Lowe’s. I see all of the posts about the electronics giving people trouble with the new ones and think about how lucky I am to not have nearly as much potential for those type of things giving me trouble with mine.
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:56 AM   #7
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You might also look for a '85-90 in better shape with maybe minor work to be done.
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:39 AM   #8
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hi! Just redid a 1971 Travelux(similar Canadian trailer). 7 yrs and still going. To do it again, if i could offer 1 suggestion, choose a slightly newer trailer, with both grey and black tanks. My biggest challenge was redoing the frame and finding a spot within the frame for a grey tank, which naturally had to be custom made. My frame was 5 " and i believe AS was 3". The rest of the rebuild has been a great test of determination and stamina, but i enjoyed doing it, as a hobby. This forum offered a good suggestion to me early on, which was to make it road worthy first, and start to enjoy it as soon as possible. You need to enjoy your work, sooner rather than later. Go for it!!!
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:50 AM   #9
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My prediction (without having seen the trailer, but being pretty well educated on the topic): if you buy this trailer, you will end up doing a frame-off restoration, and it will likely be years before you get to use it in its "finished" state.



Going by what I'm reading in your original post, I don't think this is what you want.


If you want to camp and do some "fix up" along the way, this probably isn't the right trailer for you. I would look for a late seventies to mid nineties trailer, and make sure to have someone who knows what they are doing check it out thoroughly before you buy it. Everyone I know who has just "jumped into the deep end" thinking the trailer looked good and wouldn't be much work... has been wrong.
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Old 07-16-2020, 11:44 AM   #10
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woooooo

Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
Hello!


Brand new to the forum, and to Airstreams, and I have a few questions. This may not be the best forum here, so please redirect me if needed.


We are considering an older (mid-60s) AS. We have not seen it in person yet. It is described as in workable condition, with a few new parts. In general, it looks to need TLC... and maybe a bit more. My thought/hope would be to use it as is and upgrade/restore it when we're not camping. I have good DIY skills and would hope to do much of the work - I also know my limits and am perfectly willing hire someone when something's above my pay grade. So here are my questions:


1) How difficult/expensive is a new axle and everything that goes with it (brakes, hubs, etc.)? (It's a single axle trailer). How critical is this, for a 50 yr. old trailer?


2) How difficult is it to access the mechanicals? By this I mean the plumbing and electric. If I want to put in reading lights over the bed, do I have to pop the inner skin to run wires? Similarly, with plumbing... what if I want to move the kitchen (down the road, so to speak)? How tough is it to run new pex tubing?


3) What about tanks? I'm guessing it has a fresh and waste (black) tank, but not a separate grey tank. How tough to redo that system?


4) Is there anything else I should be asking? When we go see it, I know to check the floor for soft spots and the frame for rust (if I can see it), but what else should I look for?


Basically, I'm trying to figure out how much of a project I'm buying. Or more correctly, how difficult are these projects for someone with tools and skills and a willingness to learn.



TIA!
Go for it.... you will have a ton of fun, and the finished product. WOW
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:41 PM   #11
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As you go down your list of questions they are very doable until you get to 4) that opens a whole can of worms with the correct answer being the full monty.

Hard to fix as you go if you have under lying issues and as most above said, expect the worse.

I know, my full Monty is years old and I'm no where near being done, but that's all good with me. I knew what I was getting into, life just through me some challenges keeping me from working on the Airstream.

All the answers you need are on this forum to help you decide, just know it won't be a case of fix a few leaky pipes and add a tank and do a couple easy floor repairs. That being said there are a few people rolling around in the 60' and 70' trailers where every thing still works fine

Good luck.

Oh ya I bought another used SOB to just take the family camping while the Airstream ages well.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:19 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
how difficult are these projects for someone with tools and skills and a willingness to learn.
Completely doable with tools/skills/ability to learn. Generally it will take more money than you can imagine. Parts can be difficult if not impossible to source. It will take much much longer than you ever expected.

An Airstream in decent shape takes a lot of effort to keep road ready. A project Airstream is a huge commitment. If you're mostly interested in something to keep you busy in the shop with form dominating over function, OK. I'd suggest something much more modern. If you want some groovy to go along with the function, something pre '95 but not too pre '95.
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:28 PM   #13
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Unless you are already planning a full frame off restoration, invest in a moisture meter. They are not very expensive and will save you a big heart ache when you find out the floor is rotten under its overlay (to hide it?).
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Old 07-16-2020, 02:54 PM   #14
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Buy a newer one

I wouldn’t buy anything older than about 20 yrs. this will give most modern items and trailer should be usable. Definitely go over the floor very carefully and check inside all the outside lockers.
I’ve seen some decent safari models for under 30k. If you get below 20k I would guess you will drop 15 to 20 k to get it in shape you can use.
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Old 07-16-2020, 03:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
1) How difficult/expensive is a new axle and everything that goes with it (brakes, hubs, etc.)? (It's a single axle trailer). How critical is this, for a 50 yr. old trailer?
2) How difficult is it to access the mechanicals? By this I mean the plumbing and electric. If I want to put in reading lights over the bed, do I have to pop the inner skin to run wires? Similarly, with plumbing... what if I want to move the kitchen (down the road, so to speak)? How tough is it to run new pex tubing?
3) What about tanks? I'm guessing it has a fresh and waste (black) tank, but not a separate grey tank. How tough to redo that system?
4) Is there anything else I should be asking? When we go see it, I know to check the floor for soft spots and the frame for rust (if I can see it), but what else should I look for?
1. Axle replacement will be necessary. Cost of new axle/brakes/hubs approximately $875./delivered. (Just priced for my 60 Tradewind single axle)
2. Running new wires in the walls can be frustrating to impossible. Wiremold can be your friend......... just like PEX is for piping.
3.I'm in the middle of doing tanks. I re-fiber-glassed the leaking black tank, however understand that in that skill I am a pro. A new tank would have cost $270. The Fresh tank in my 60 was aluminum and pinholed severely. I am awaiting a new plastic tank ($213.) and pump ($70.) For Grey I'm going with a Tote for now.
4.Bring an awl. Probe the floor at its edges where it meets the interior wall at a 45 degree angle outward in every area that you can access. If theres rot, thats where you will find it. Have someone step up on the rear bumper while you look at the area where the frame meets the aluminum skin. Seperation means rot. Check the tongue, wheel wells and rear frame at bumper for rust thru.

If you enjoy restoring things, as I do, and you have the time and wherewithall to do the work properly you end up with a unique and classic trailer that will only be worth more if you keep it maintained, rather than owning one of those ridiculous pieces of plastic junk being sold by todays RV dealers.
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Old 07-16-2020, 05:48 PM   #16
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Do your homework; dig into your prospective purchase as deep as you can. You can tell a lot from the storage spaces in these airstreams. Forum member dbj216 has some great reno streams; you could get an idea about the work involved. I own a ‘72 overlander and it delights me at every turn. They are so well made. Find the one for you and enjoy.
Good luck,
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Old 07-16-2020, 08:21 PM   #17
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TresK,

I'm going to go at it a little different.

I purchased a 1966 Overlander that had sat for 23years in Mrs. Jackson's backyard, sunk down to the axles with flat tires, moss 3" think on top, a mouse hotel, filled with her dead sisters clothes, etc... Spent two days going by, jacking up one-side and taking the two tires to be replaced, next day, the other side. On the way home, moss, tree-frogs, front window protector all went flying, trailer brakes, etc.. Cleaned the trailer up, everything worked but the factory AC and the water pump. In fact, the plumbing didn't even leak since it was winterized correctly ;-) I drove the wheels off that trailer before finally replacing the axles and repairing the wood rot around the toilet area. Still have the trailer to this day after 20 years of ownership.

Question becomes,What type of tow rig do you have to pull this trailer with down the road? Keep in mind, 1960's trailers weigh far less than a newer Airstreams. So, newer Airstream you going to need a bigger tow rig, IMHO.

Unless the frame is completely rotted out, it's will go down the road.

Buy the trailer, bring it home, drop the belly-pan to see how the frame looks. Unless there are "MAJOR" issues, fix as needed and run the wheels off it, doing weekend projects. Axles can be done in a day, depending on the year, its either copper or aluminum wire. If aluminum, be sure to take care of that problem (does not need all the wire replaced as some would lead you to believe). Fix plumbing leaks with Nylon Reinforcement hose (used in resturants) and car hose clamps. If it needs AC, use a household unit out the front window. I'd put 7.00x15 Bias-Ply tires on it, you find some made in the USA out of PA (they make tires for Coker)

The point is this, buy, use it, fix it as needed until you decide if this Airstream thing is really for you.

**THEN**

After all of that, if you're still in the mood to restore a trailer, go purchase a second one to restore while you're still using the one you have to enjoy life.

You'll never know the feeling of free-falling unless you're willing to jump-off the high-dive.

Enjoy,
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Old 07-16-2020, 09:03 PM   #18
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Thanks to eveyone for the information and encouragement.



Some things came up today that change my situation. All considered, it's looking like a bigger project than I can tackle right now, so we're going to pass on this one. It was fun to think about, though!

However, it's good to know this forum exists. Perhaps in a few years I'll find another AS to bring back and jump off the high board!
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Old 07-16-2020, 10:17 PM   #19
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Buy redone

Our first Airstream was a '59 Overlander. It was mostly there but needed work. Went to an Airstream renovation place in Texas and found out that it was going to cost us 36K to get it fixed up. We made arrangements to have the work done but encountered delay after delay. It was finally determined that it would be 2 more years at least before we could receive our finished trailer.

In the mean time we found at '64 Overlander that had been redone professionally for substantially cheaper money and could be used right away. We decided to pull out of the deal with the '59 and purchase the redone trailer.

We have enjoyed using the trailer for the past 4 years but are now in the process of selling it. We are glad we took the course of action we did and have enjoyed our 'Daisy'. Better to get one already done IMHO.

John
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TresK View Post
Hello!


Brand new to the forum, and to Airstreams, and I have a few questions. This may not be the best forum here, so please redirect me if needed.


We are considering an older (mid-60s) AS. We have not seen it in person yet. It is described as in workable condition, with a few new parts. In general, it looks to need TLC... and maybe a bit more. My thought/hope would be to use it as is and upgrade/restore it when we're not camping. I have good DIY skills and would hope to do much of the work - I also know my limits and am perfectly willing hire someone when something's above my pay grade. So here are my questions:


1) How difficult/expensive is a new axle and everything that goes with it (brakes, hubs, etc.)? (It's a single axle trailer). How critical is this, for a 50 yr. old trailer?


2) How difficult is it to access the mechanicals? By this I mean the plumbing and electric. If I want to put in reading lights over the bed, do I have to pop the inner skin to run wires? Similarly, with plumbing... what if I want to move the kitchen (down the road, so to speak)? How tough is it to run new pex tubing?


3) What about tanks? I'm guessing it has a fresh and waste (black) tank, but not a separate grey tank. How tough to redo that system?


4) Is there anything else I should be asking? When we go see it, I know to check the floor for soft spots and the frame for rust (if I can see it), but what else should I look for?


Basically, I'm trying to figure out how much of a project I'm buying. Or more correctly, how difficult are these projects for someone with tools and skills and a willingness to learn.



TIA!
I own a 1961 and highly suggest speaking with an expert that works on these vintage trailers. They are beautiful and lighter weight than their modern counterparts, but can offer up some unique challenges.

If you plan to use it off grid, many of the older units do not have grey tanks, only fresh and black. Capacity is also a concern... some black tanks are as small as 5 gallons, that will not allow you to take a shower off gris, let alone do dishes.

Accessing the electrical, plumbing and propane lines can also be challenging as they may require removal of the interior aluminum shell or exterior belly shell.

Look for different types of rivets, old or mismatched flooring (chasis, subfloor, bearings, gas lines, water lines, wiring, etc.) may all have hidden issues. Short of a shell off/complete restoration, you may get more trouble than it's worth.
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