Considering a rehab? Rank Amateur's renovation

[cdmagda]

I believe it is for the emergency braking system if a trailer comes off the hitch.

[RankAm]

Thanks, Aage and cmagda for your posts.

Aage, let me make sure I understand your question. "TT" refers to Travel Trailer, not Tow Truck?

My Flying Cloud did not have an on-board battery, and the coach braking system was primitive. It had a simple hydraulic surge brake, and I do not know how (if at all) it would have operated if the trailer had detached from the tow vehicle.

I have already removed the surge brake, and it will be replaced with a new disc brake system as part of a new torsion axle.

Can either of you (or anyone else) describe how best to deal with that old-style braking system on a recovery trip?

Hank

[cdmagda]

If your trip is not too far, I wouldn't bother, just have good brakes on your tow rig, and go slow, 55 at best. The tires are more important, along with functioning running lights. Also, if the bearings haven't been packed in years, I I would pack them before leaving.

[Colin H]

Originally Posted by RankAm

Thanks, Aage and cmagda for your posts.

Aage, let me make sure I understand your question. "TT" refers to Travel Trailer, not Tow Truck?

My Flying Cloud did not have an on-board battery, and the coach braking system was primitive. It had a simple hydraulic surge brake, and I do not know how (if at all) it would have operated if the trailer had detached from the tow vehicle.

I have already removed the surge brake, and it will be replaced with a new disc brake system as part of a new torsion axle.

Can either of you (or anyone else) describe how best to deal with that old-style braking system on a recovery trip?

Hank

This was likely not a "surge" brake system, unless someone installed a surge coupler at a later date. The hydraulic brake system of that period consisted of a master cylinder mounted on the tongue with an arm that typically stood vertically. There was a chain or cable that attached to the end of the arm & over to your tow vehicle. In the event of a de coupling, the chain would be pulled, the arm would come down, forcing brake fluid to the wheel cylinders. This was an early "break away" system, however it didn't allow you to apply the brakes during normal operation. This could also be used as a parking brake. My 57 Sovereign of the Road has this system on one axle & the other axle has electric brakes...........of the day. Sounds kinda crazy having usable brakes on only one axle on a 30' trailer, but you have to remember that this trailer only weighed 3900 lbs, which is somewhat less than what many single axle trailers weigh today. Towing speeds were also somewhat slower back then too.
When I restore my 57, I plan on leaving the old master cylinder on the tongue as a conversation piece The trailer will get modern torsion axles, along with electric brakes on both axles.

[Aage]

Originally Posted by RankAm

Thanks, Aage and cmagda for your posts.

Aage, let me make sure I understand your question. "TT" refers to Travel Trailer, not Tow Truck?

Yes, Rankam, TT = Travel Trailer (and TV = Tow Vehicle, FYI).

cdmagda was correct, but I thank Colin for clarifying what braking system was used on your '56.

[Ken J]

Thank you very the kind words regarding the Vintage Trailer Academy - we work very hard to make this a quality learning event...........

Ken J.

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Colin H

This was likely not a "surge" brake system, unless someone installed a surge coupler at a later date. The hydraulic brake system of that period consisted of a master cylinder mounted on the tongue with an arm that typically stood vertically. There was a chain or cable that attached to the end of the arm & over to your tow vehicle. In the event of a de coupling, the chain would be pulled, the arm would come down, forcing brake fluid to the wheel cylinders. This was an early "break away" system, however it didn't allow you to apply the brakes during normal operation. This could also be used as a parking brake. My 57 Sovereign of the Road has this system on one axle & the other axle has electric brakes...........of the day. Sounds kinda crazy having usable brakes on only one axle on a 30' trailer, but you have to remember that this trailer only weighed 3900 lbs, which is somewhat less than what many single axle trailers weigh today. Towing speeds were also somewhat slower back then too.
When I restore my 57, I plan on leaving the old master cylinder on the tongue as a conversation piece The trailer will get modern torsion axles, along with electric brakes on both axles.

Thanks, Colin. Here is an image of my a-frame at pickup:

So, should I have attached a chain from the tow vehicle to the top of the upright arm on the hydraulic master cylinder? It is obvious that I did not do so, and the takeaway (for other amateurs) is that you should learn about the breakaway system as part of getting ready for the recovery trip.

I did drive slowly and carefully on the way to Montana, and I made frequent stops, but I did not have a breakaway system operating during my recovery. Was that illegal?

Hank

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Ken J

Thank you very the kind words regarding the Vintage Trailer Academy - we work very hard to make this a quality learning event...........

Ken J.

You are welcome, Ken.

This is a good opportunity to again encourage amateurs considering an Airstream restoration to attend the VTA. You will be favorably surprised at how very much you learn. Do not wait until the last minute to register for the VTA because the number who can attend is limited, and the slots are full well before the event. Hank

[cdmagda]

Originally Posted by RankAm

Thanks, Colin. Here is an image of my a-frame at pickup:
Attachment 205147
So, should I have attached a chain from the tow vehicle to the top of the upright arm on the hydraulic master cylinder? It is obvious that I did not do so, and the takeaway (for other amateurs) is that you should learn about the breakaway system as part of getting ready for the recovery trip.

I did drive slowly and carefully on the way to Montana, and I made frequent stops, but I did not have a breakaway system operating during my recovery. Was that illegal?

Hank

I doubt that breakaway would have worked anyway Hank, I can't imagine it functional without some major fiddling at best (seized mechanisms/hydraulic fluid). There was nothing you could have done to it (breakaway)in your situation to get it home.
Recoveries on these older units requires a McGuyver kind of mindset, you do what you can on the essentials, and get her home as safe as you can. I don't know if you broke any laws, depends on the state I would assume. However, it is more important that the hitch and chains are solid (those chains are not up to par by what I can see).
Glad all went well for your maiden voyage back.

-chris-

[RankAm]

After we arrived at home in Montana, I prepared to go to the county courthouse to register the trailer and get a Montana title. Only then did I notice that the Nebraska title serial number 8030 did not match the serial number on the plate next to the entry door of 8038:



I should have caught the discrepancy when I picked up the trailer (I really should have asked for a photocopy of the title before I departed on the recovery!). I knew that this discrepancy in the serial number would create a problem for me to get a Montana title with the correct serial number.

I was lucky that the owners were willing and able to get a replacement/corrected Nebraska title issued with the correct serial number, which I then used to get a Montana title bearing the correct serial number. This took extra time, but eventually I received a correct Montana title.

[RankAm]

If you are an amateur like me, I think it is important to evaluate whether you have sufficient passion about a trailer restoration to undertake tasks about which you have little or no knowledge or experience. I decided to proceed with a restoration because I was looking forward to experimenting and learning about restoration-related matters. I am retired, however, and that gives me much more time to study, learn, and restore the trailer. If you cannot, or do not want to, undertake all of the work, you probably can find a professional restorer within a reasonable distance to perform the restoration or at least the parts of the restoration that you do not want to undertake.

Some Airstream trailers languish in a partially-restored state because the owner’s restoration efforts have stalled. The stall may have been due to time constraints or budget constraints, but I sense that some of the stalls were due to the owner being overwhelmed by the enormity of the overall restoration process. Be realistic about your strengths and weaknesses before you jump into a major commitment to restore a camper trailer.

We have yet to see if I can make through to complete restoration, but I am enjoying myself and still am motivated. I just need to find more time to work on the trailer!

As always, I welcome comments from other restorers.

Hank

[RankAm]

Tools are an important part of a trailer restoration project. I had an adequate set of tools for the typical homeowner, and I am reasonably handy at basic homeowner tasks, but I had a lot to learn. I still am mid-stream in the tool and technique learning process. I have purchased a variety of tools, and I am learning how and when to use them.

1. Range of tools. If you are undertaking a modest restoration, you clearly will need less in terms of tools and techniques. For example, if you will be removing the belly pan, window frames, etc., you will need to have, and know how to operate, a variety of sheet metal and riveting tools (for both removal and replacement tasks). The Vintage Trailer Academy is a great source of information (and hands-on experience) regarding sheet metal and riveting. I eventually removed the belly pan, all windows, and the interior walls from 8038, so I had to acquire the sheet metal and riveting tools (some of which I now know how to operate adequately, and some of which I do not).

If you will be gutting the trailer's interior or rehabilitating the interior, you will need to have, and know how to use, various woodworking tools. There is a large online community of woodworkers, and searching the internet will provide lots of useful information.

Depending on your plans as to electrical and plumbing systems, you will need to have the tools and skills to support whatever tasks you undertake.

2. Cost v. quality. What about cost versus quality of tools? I have followed a cheap-at-first strategy. I know that lower-cost tools are likely to have a shorter useful life than higher-cost tools, but I have been unwilling to pay the higher costs unless I was confident as to what I was buying. I think you need experience, perhaps considerable experience, to make well-informed choices as to more expensive tools. Accordingly, I often purchase inexpensive tools recognizing that the tool may not last long and may not have all the features that a higher-priced version would have. If, and when, I feel confident about a particular tool, I then will consider spending more money for a new or replacement tool.

I have purchased inexpensive tools at places such as Harbor Freight, and I still do, because for me the cost-benefit ratio is satisfactory as to many tools. One attractive feature associated with many (but not all) Harbor Freight tools is that you may purchase an extended warranty. As a general rule I do not buy extended warranties, but I have done so with some Harbor Freight tool purchases if I thought the tool might receive considerable and/or demanding use within the period of the extended warranty.

As you will see in other posts, I will list and describe the tools I use for a particular task. I hope that this may help other amateurs.

[RankAm]

Now the fun begins! I could first go to work on the interior or the belly pan, and I chose to start with the interior. Before discussing the actual demolition, however, I want to discuss the tools I used.

You will need a variety of hand and power tools to demolish the interior and remove the many components.

1. Solid shank putty knife. You will need a solid-shank putty knife, which has a metal cutting edge with the metal shank extending from the cutting edge through the handle to the top of the handle. This tool also can be called a scraper, but I will try to be consistent in calling it a putty knife, and that is because I use it mostly as a cutting tool, rather than a scraping tool.

The grip of a solid-shank putty knife attaches to or through the solid shank. Less expensive and less strong putty knives have a shank that inserts into the handle, but the metal does not extend all the way to the top of the handle. Here is an image of two solid-shank putty knives (note the metal cap on the end of each handle):



The reason you need the solid shank is that you will need to drive through and cut some rivet shanks (and possibly other things) with the putty knife, and you do that by hammering on the top of the handle of the putty knife. You want to be hammering on the solid shank, rather than on a handle, because the solid shank will transfer the energy of the hammer blow to the cutting edge. The metal caps at the end of the handles of the two knives in the image above worked well when I used a hammer with either of those knives.

Here is a photo of how the putty knife would be used with a hammer. I previously had drilled through the rivet heads, and I was using the putty knife to cut through the solid shank of those rivets by hammering on the handle end of the putty knife.



Much of your rivet work may be on the exterior of the trailer, but there will be rivets inside the cabin that you will need to cut if you remove items like hanging cabinets (which are secured by rivets), wall divider aluminum extrusions (which are secured by rivets), interior walls, etc.

During your restoration, you may go through several solid shank putty knives (depending on how extensively you remove rivets).

2. Hammers. You will need at least one hammer, and I recommend two: a standard-length-handle hammer and a short-handle hammer. I like a short-handle hammer for many tasks; it is much easier to use in many tight situations or when you want more control over the swing of the hammer. The image above shows a short-handle hammer that I have used a lot.

3. Screw drivers. You will need both phillips and slot head screwdrivers, as you probably will be removing a lot of different screws in gutting the interior of a camper. To assist you in removing screws, you could use an electric (or battery) screwdriver or an electric (or battery) drill (with a variable-speed trigger). An electric screw driver will be sufficient for the removal of many screws, but you may need a stout power drill to remove stuck screws. I mostly used an 18 volt battery drill.

4. Flat pry bar. A flat pry bar is very handy for disassembly of the cabin. It can remove nails, and it also can pry apart pieces of wood. The bar can be used manually in many instances, but I also hit the pry bar with a hammer if I needed additional force. These bars come in many sizes, and the smaller sizes are good for removing trim pieces and for when you do not want to leave dents/marks. Here is a standard-sized pry bar I used in disassembly of the interior:



5. Baggies, masking tape, and marking pen. I ended up with many small pieces of loose hardware resulting from the demolition, and I used baggies to store those items. I assure you that there is no way you will be able to keep track of all of the many parts that you remove from your trailer. If you want to restore your interior to the original condition, it is critical to keep track of all the parts. I intended to completely change the interior, so why would I want to keep all of the removed parts, you ask? I saved every item I removed from the interior because I wanted to be able to recreate how all the pieces fit and worked together. I thought I might need that help in the future if I became stumped as to how to construct something. Another reason to keep everything removed from the interior is that you may need a template/model from which to refashion/reposition something you make from scratch.

I wrote with a Sharpie on each bag to identify the contents. Make sure that the baggie is large enough to fully close around whatever parts you place inside so that you do not lose anything. I had in the garage baggies of various sizes.

For larger pieces that would not fit into a baggie, I either marked directly on the piece, or I wrote on a piece of masking tape I had applied to the item.

6. Digital camera. I doubt that I can say strongly enough that you must take digital photos (with a camera, smart phone, tablet, etc.) of all phases of your demolition and restoration. Take a comprehensive set of photos before you do anything to the trailer. Take photos of each significant step of the disassembly and demolition. As to what is "significant," take more photos than you think you will need, just to be safe. Some of your photos will not be useful (out of focus, poor light, or otherwise). A great advantage of digital cameras is that you easily (and without cost) can dispose of the images you do not want. My advice is that you keep even marginally useful photos just in case they may show you in the future something helpful.

Also, take photos from several angles so that you can understand (1) the relationships of various subjects in the photo and (2) how things fit together. For example, I took lots of photos when I removed the windows and the interior walls. I tried to leave a good record that I will be able to use when I put everything back together and have to figure out which pieces go over or under other pieces. I sure hope those photos help me when I get to reconstruction.

[RankAm]

I recently started using the Dropbox software, which replicates files (in Dropbox folders) on any computer that is part of a Dropbox network. This has been very useful to me, as my main computer (where I store most of my data and for which I have an automatic backup drive) is in the house, and I have a MacBook Air in the garage, where I work on 8038. I also have my iPad linked into the Dropbox system.

By using Dropbox, any change (addition, deletion, or revision of a file in a Dropbox folder) I make on any of the Dropbox computers is automatically replicated on the other Dropbox computers (when the other computer has internet access). For example, if I add a photo to a Dropbox folder file while working on my MacBook Air in the garage, Dropbox will add the photo to the house computer and the iPad. Similarly, if I revise on the house computer a text file in a Dropbox folder, I do not have to worry about updating the counterpart file on the MacBook Air in the garage because Dropbox does that automatically. Dropbox is a painless way to manage and update your files, and I am a big fan of Dropbox for this kind of use.

[RankAm]

I could have started my demolition on the exterior or the interior, and I chose the interior. In this post I will explain the tools and the techniques that I used to demolish the interior. More experienced restorers may be able to respond and help out with better strategies.

I intend to completely revise the interior, so I removed the entire contents of the interior, and I did not have to be especially careful about preserving everything.

Tools. Demolition requires some physical effort and tools that are up to the task: hammer, flat (pry) bar, screwdrivers, electric or battery screwdrivers, electric or battery drill, and putty knife.

Techniques.

1. Start at the front of the cabin. For reasons that I cannot now remember, I chose to start my demolition in the rear of the cabin. That was a mistake because (1) there is more working room in the front of the cabin and (2) I understand that Airstreams were built from the rear to the front. My advice is that you start the demolition at the front of the cabin and move to the rear as you go.

2. Salvage as much as you can. I tried to salvage (without breaking or defacing) as much as I could in my disassembly of the contents of the coach. I wanted the contents to be available if I needed a template for designing a new replacement part.

3. Take lots of photos. Take photos at every step! Yes, it is a pain, but I think the effort will be worth your while. At different times, I used for photos a digital camera, my iPhone, and my iPad. Make sure that you collect all the images on your computer in a file structure that makes it easy to access the images. Consider using Dropbox (see the preceding post) for ease of access to your photos if you use multiple computer devices.

Where I thought it would be helpful, I took photos showing a measurement:



4. Mark everything you remove. I marked each door, bulkhead divider, drawer, panel, etc., to show where it came from, and I also marked (generally in an inconspicuous place such as underneath where a hinge had been) the upward direction if necessary. If there were a number of related pieces, such as all the framing for the rear bed, I took lots of photos showing how the pieces fit together, and then I bundled the framing pieces together with blue tape and stored the bundle in an out-of-the-way place. I probably never will need to retrieve those framing pieces (I do not intend to replicate that bed), but I feel better knowing that I have them and could reconstruct the frame if that would be useful to me. When I finish my restoration, I will clear out the attic of my garage and dispose of the parts I do not need.

5. Removal of extrusions. Some of the bulkhead/wall and divider panels were held in place by an extrusion of aluminum that was pop riveted into the side wall or ceiling. I used a solid shank putty knife to cut through the shank of the rivets by hammering on the handle end of the knife:



6. Cabinet attachment. The front face of cabinets (the "face frame") generally faces the center of the trailer, and some of these face frames were held in place at the top by a piece of aluminum that fit into a narrow channel cut into top of the face frame with the other end of the aluminum piece riveted into the ceiling of the coach. I took photos of this to remind myself how it all fit together:



It is hard to tell from the photo, but the wood you see is part of a face frame for a closet. The face frame has been removed from the closet, and the face frame is lying at an angle on the top of the refrigerator. The piece of aluminum is attached to the top of the face frame, and the face frame was anchored to the ceiling by rivets through the aluminum.

There was good news at the end of the demolition of the interior: I had discovered no rotten flooring, and that suggested that I was not facing a subfloor replacement, which is a huge and complicated undertaking. At this stage, it appeared that I had dodged that bullet.

[John&Vicki]

Very interesting - thank you for sharing.

I have restored many vintage Porsches over the years and aspire to restore a vintage Airstream at some point (love your model). I'm fortunate to have a mentor in the Porsche world who gives me great advice. One of the things he has insisted on from the beginning is

DON'T THROW ANYTHING AWAY EVEN WHEN THE RESTORATION IS COMPLETE.

Please forgive the all caps, but that's how he stresses it.

At first I thought he was over doing things a bit. But I have learned. There are at least three good reasons to save parts:

(1) You might be able to reuse them.
(2) You can use them as a template to make new parts.
(3) A fellow restorer might have a need for them.

I have benefited from this advice countless times, my fellow restorers perhaps even more so.

Best of luck with the project. I'll be following your progress with interest.

Poppy

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Birdmaestro

Very interesting - thank you for sharing.

I have restored many vintage Porsches over the years and aspire to restore a vintage Airstream at some point (love your model). I'm fortunate to have a mentor in the Porsche world who gives me great advice. One of the things he has insisted on from the beginning is

DON'T THROW ANYTHING AWAY EVEN WHEN THE RESTORATION IS COMPLETE.

Please forgive the all caps, but that's how he stresses it.

At first I thought he was over doing things a bit. But I have learned. There are at least three good reasons to save parts:

(1) You might be able to reuse them.
(2) You can use them as a template to make new parts.
(3) A fellow restorer might have a need for them.

I have benefited from this advice countless times, my fellow restorers perhaps even more so.

Best of luck with the project. I'll be following your progress with interest.

Poppy

Thanks, Poppy, for your post. You and I agree on the need to save all parts. Even if I do not end up using all of the parts, someone else may be able to.

Wouldn't it be something to tow a vintage Airstream behind a vintage Porsche? Two great icons! I do not think the mechanics of that would be very good, however.

Hank

[RankAm]

After I removed the contents of the cabin (all the cabinets, furniture, bulkheads, etc.), I went after the flooring. I intended to remove the top-level cosmetic flooring (two layers, as it turned out), not the subfloor.

Tools. The tools I used for the floor removal were not extensive.

1. Scrapers. Removal of flooring requires various scrapers, and the one I found most effective was a broad-blade scraper that accepted a screw-on broom handle:



The broom-handle shaft made the removal process much easier and faster. I was able to work on my feet, rather than on my hands and knees, so my back was happier at the end of the day.

2. Respirator. If you are working on an older trailer, I suggest that you use a respirator because some of the old flooring contained asbestos. I do not know how to determine whether the flooring contains asbestos, so my advice is that you use a respirator.

3. Wire brush. A wire brush is useful to clean up the flooring along the edges with the side walls and around the wheel wells.

Techniques. 8038 had two layers above the subfloor. The top layer was composed of fake parquet squares, and the second layer (underneath the fake parquet) was linoleum (or something like linoleum). Can anyone identify the linoleum-like material?

I used the scrapers to remove the two layers. After I removed the fake parquet:





In the photo above, note the white tile floor repairs around the entry door, which often is a place where water enters the cabin and causes floor rot. Those tiles, which I left in place, eventually required me to use Bondo to make the subfloor even, and I will describe the Bondo repairs in a subsequent post.

After I removed the linoleum:



The surface of the subfloor was quite uneven after I removed the linoleum because of an underlayment used to secure the linoleum to the subfloor. I was fairly aggressive in my scraping, as I was not worried about scratching or gouging the subfloor. I knew that I eventually would be sanding the top of the subfloor to level that underlayment material as preparation for installation of new cosmetic flooring.

More good news to me: I now am down to the subfloor (covered only by the underlayment for the linoleum), and now I know without doubt that the subfloor is sound and that I will not need to replace the subfloor plywood! I discovered a few spots in the subfloor with some slight delamination of the plywood plies, but at this stage I am confident that I can deal with those delaminations, as I will discuss in a another post.

[Thalweg]

I was at the same place you are about two years ago. I read that the 9"x9" linoleum tiles contained asbestos, if that is what you’re asking. I intended on removing the asphalt/adhesive with a belt sander, but then I read that it also contained asbestos. So I figured I should try to minimize making dust. I was able to scrape most of it off using a vibrating multi-tool with a sharpened scraper blade on it. But there was still an asphalt residue on the floor that I couldn’t get up. I used Marmoleum flooring in my trailer. The Marmoleum adhesive said that it was incompatible with the asphalt. They have a primer type of product that is supposed to make it all work, but it was super expensive. So I ended up laying down 1/4” plywood over the top of the original underlayment. Seemed to work. This led to other problems though when I went to re-install the cabinetry and appliances. I had to cut ¼” off of the walls, and the holes for the furnace and water heater didn’t line up. So the holes had to be trimmed.

Just some things to think about.

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Thalweg

I was at the same place you are about two years ago. I read that the 9"x9" linoleum tiles contained asbestos, if that is what you’re asking. I intended on removing the asphalt/adhesive with a belt sander, but then I read that it also contained asbestos. So I figured I should try to minimize making dust. I was able to scrape most of it off using a vibrating multi-tool with a sharpened scraper blade on it. But there was still an asphalt residue on the floor that I couldn’t get up. I used Marmoleum flooring in my trailer. The Marmoleum adhesive said that it was incompatible with the asphalt. They have a primer type of product that is supposed to make it all work, but it was super expensive. So I ended up laying down 1/4” plywood over the top of the original underlayment. Seemed to work. This led to other problems though when I went to re-install the cabinetry and appliances. I had to cut ¼” off of the walls, and the holes for the furnace and water heater didn’t line up. So the holes had to be trimmed.

Just some things to think about.

Thanks, Thalweg. I already have sanded off what I could of the black underlayment, and it was not easy. I first tried a circular buffer with sanding discs, but it was impossible to control, because as soon as the sanding disc contacted the rough floor, the whole sander would move/jump. Eventually, I learned that I could better control the machine if I started the machine with the sanding disc in the air and slowly lowered the disc onto the surface of the floor. Even that was not satisfactory, so I switched to an upright vibrating floor sander, and I could control it. It looked like this:



I also used a hand-held belt sander for some areas.

Your message also reminds us that a respirator should be used whenever sanding, and certainly when working on a vintage trailer.

Hank