Considering a rehab? Rank Amateur's renovation

[Bubba L]

Hank, I sent you a PM with my contact information. I don’t know what happened to the email I had sent you. I must have screwed something up.
I started measuring up the door yesterday and jotting down dimensions in the event I mess something up. I have some 3003 H14 .032 that is easier to shape. But Kip (Aerowood) suggested I stay with 2024 T3 .032 due to being tougher against denting. Thanks for following up. Bubba

[Aerowood]

Reading about your door brought back memories of my former door work. I had to re-form my GT door twice, first time was with just the frame mounted to get it close. The second time was before I riveted on the inner skin. Both times I had the door or frame mounted to trailer. I used to have to re-skin airliner doors. The only way we could insure a perfect fit was to rig the door to the aircraft and using the aircraft as a jig, with the skin just clecoed on, and then shooting on the skin. A perfect fit every time.

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Aerowood

Reading about your door brought back memories of my former door work. I had to re-form my GT door twice, first time was with just the frame mounted to get it close. The second time was before I riveted on the inner skin. Both times I had the door or frame mounted to trailer. I used to have to re-skin airliner doors. The only way we could insure a perfect fit was to rig the door to the aircraft and using the aircraft as a jig, with the skin just clecoed on, and then shooting on the skin. A perfect fit every time.

I am one of the many Airstream rehabbers who wish they had even a very small bit of the aluminum-working experience that you have!

Thanks for sharing your expertise on the Airforums.

Hank

[RankAm]

While Uwe was in Montana I asked him to finish the sealing of the front Fantastic Vent I previously had installed. Uwe did the whole install of the rear FV. Lots of Trempro and SikaFlex sealant around those vents.



Hank

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by RankAm

While Uwe was in Montana I asked him to finish the sealing of the front Fantastic Vent I previously had installed. Uwe did the whole install of the rear FV. Lots of Trempro and SikaFlex sealant around those vents.

Attachment 304870

Hank

I ran out of time to complete the prior post, so I will add some information here.

Uwe advised against using the foam gasket that came with the FV kit. That gasket is known to fail eventually.

I applied lots of Trempro around the base/flange of the FV before I placed it into the opening in the roof. I pressed down on the base to make a good contact with the roof metal (which I had cleaned with carburetor cleaner) and to squeeze out the excess Trempro. Mineral spirits and rags cleaned up the squeeze-out.

To secure that FV base to the roof, use stainless steel sheet metal screws that you hand tighten. It is important (to prevent water leaks) not to over-tighten and strip those screws.

SikaFlex 221 was used to cover each of the screw heads.

Hank

[RankAm]

I had purchased two Renogy 100 watt panels for installation on the roof.

Uwe (with some minor help from me) installed and wired the two panels.

The wiring from the solar panels needed to pass through the roof and go to the electrical center (I eventually will post about the electrical center below). The two holes through the roof were located to be underneath the forward solar panel. The two openings through the roof were drilled through, a grommet was installed, the solar panel wires were passed through, a stainless steel "clamshell" cover was installed over the opening (with the open end facing to the rear of the coach), and (from the inside of the coach) the hole and cover were filled with Trempro.





The solar panel attachment brackets were secured to the roof with sheet metal screws. In placing the solar panels, make sure that you leave room for the roof vent cover to open. The process was: (1) use the attachment brackets to mark the locations to drill pilot holes for the stainless steel screws that will secure the brackets to the roof, (2) drill the pilot holes (diameter of the drill bit slightly smaller than the shank of the stainless steel screws to be used), (3) use a hand-held electric drill to drive the screw through the bracket, the roof, and a small backer piece of scrap sheet aluminum that I held in place (from inside the coach) with a piece of scrap wood. The backer piece causes that whole joint to be much tighter because the backer piece is pulled snug against the inside of the roof.

The images show that the two solar panels used up all the space between the front and rear roof vents. This post describes how I previously had covered up the middle roof vent (I do not intend to install a roof air conditioner).

Hank

[RankAm]

Uwe likes the heavy-duty umbilical connector hardware made by Pollack.

My umbilical setup will involve (1) a female Pollak connector at the rear of the tow vehicle, (2) a connecting cable with a male fitting on each end, and (3) a female Pollak connector at the front of 8038. He installed the female Pollak connector at the front of the trailer low on the streetside of the flat panel under the front window.

The image below (sorry for the poor focus) shows the junction box on the inside of 8038. The junction box connects the various wires from the umbilical cord and then distributes various wires to 8038.



Uwe wired and built all the electrical components so that they could be moved around as necessary to fit with the interior build-out. The junction box is free-floating in the image, but eventually I will secure it to the floor or the sidewall of the furniture.

Hank

[RankAm]

The most important reason for bringing in Uwe was the electrical system. I had no confidence that I could integrate and wire correctly the shore power converter, the 12v control center (with fuses), the inverter, the solar controller, the batteries, the Victron Energy battery monitor, and the shunt (that is used by the battery monitor). I was very intimidated by of those things, and incorrect installation can be dangerous, as the batteries have considerable amps. Uwe's background makes him perfect for those integration tasks. I did some of the simple wiring runs, but Uwe did all the important wiring.

I chose the Boondocker 4 Stage Power Center 60 Amp (BD 1260PC) for my battery charger and 12v electrical control center. Here it is on the bench before Uwe had started:


Uwe started building the unit on the workbench (after I built a simple box frame on which the Boondocker would sit). The inverter is mounted on the side of the box frame:


Eventually, I added another surface to the Boondocker box to house the Blue Sky Solar Controller:


The electrical center will be on the floor under the curbside large window directly across from the curbside entry door:


I used a step/universal drill bit to cut holes in ribs for grommets through which the wires would pass:


What a large rat’s nest!, and this is not the final wiring:


This image shows the numbered wires:


The battery box eventually will be anchored with pocket screws to the floor of the coach (like the battery tray box will be with through the pocket hole screw holes you can see in the image):


My next post will be on the wiring runs that I made.

Hank

[dbj216]

I've installed two of the Boondocker converters. They are a nice size and working well for me. I went a purchased a Progressive Dynamics one for my Overlander as it was on sale. They perform the same function. We shall see which one lasts the longest. I expect 30 years out of the thing.

I also need to replace my 115v circuit breaker box (load distribution panel) or whatever it is called. I have done this before too.

But I've never rewired an Airstream like you have. So that makes these component installations a bit more challenging. You have an expert on the job site. Good for you.

I used the old Airstream fuse panel as I thought it was well designed and laid out. It is accessed through the curbside exterior storage compartment.

David

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by dbj216

I've installed two of the Boondocker converters. They are a nice size and working well for me. I went a purchased a Progressive Dynamics one for my Overlander as it was on sale. They perform the same function. We shall see which one lasts the longest. I expect 30 years out of the thing.

I also need to replace my 115v circuit breaker box (load distribution panel) or whatever it is called. I have done this before too.

But I've never rewired an Airstream like you have. So that makes these component installations a bit more challenging. You have an expert on the job site. Good for you.

I used the old Airstream fuse panel as I thought it was well designed and laid out. It is accessed through the curbside exterior storage compartment.

David

Thanks for your post, David.

I did need an expert, and I had one in Uwe. His experience in electrical systems was just what I needed.

I see that you are in Conifer, CO. I must have driven through there on Hwy 285, as my daughter lives in Evergreen. Very nice part of the state, but I have no memories of Conifer.

Hank

[dbj216]

You don't have memories of Conifer as it is pretty unremarkable. In fact, it is not an incorporated city, just a junction of two roads. That said, it is a very nice place to live for us. It is 45 minutes from Denver, the foothills are scenic enough for me, and people are very friendly here.

Evergreen is on I 70 and a much bigger place. It is also very nice.

I'm installing my new water heater now, then I will install the new city water inlet and shore power inlet (I don't like the rear bumper cord storage idea), and then I will replumb the trailer in PEX. Copper is soooo old fashioned seems to me.

David

[Sum75]

Originally Posted by RankAm

Thanks for your post, David.



I did need an expert, and I had one in Uwe. His experience in electrical systems was just what I needed.



I see that you are in Conifer, CO. I must have driven through there on Hwy 285, as my daughter lives in Evergreen. Very nice part of the state, but I have no memories of Conifer.



Hank

Hi, Hank. I’ve enjoyed reading your thread when time permits, although I’ll admit I find you to be anything but a rank amateur [emoji4]. I enjoy your careful, well considered, and patient work.

I attended the Vintage Trailer Academy several years ago and had the pleasure of seeing Uwe work. A few times now I’ve thought about reaching out to him for work on my ‘57 Overlander that is beyond my scope. I was pretty disappointed to see that his Area 63 Productions has moved a little farther out from Los Angeles- I believe he used to be in Orange County but is now in San Bernardino County. I’m assuming he traveled to you? Just wondering if it’s realistic to think I might be able to hire him do the same. Thanks for any insight you can provide, and keep sharing your fantastic progress!

[RankAm]

Originally Posted by Sum75

Hi, Hank. I’ve enjoyed reading your thread when time permits, although I’ll admit I find you to be anything but a rank amateur [emoji4]. I enjoy your careful, well considered, and patient work.

I attended the Vintage Trailer Academy several years ago and had the pleasure of seeing Uwe work. A few times now I’ve thought about reaching out to him for work on my ‘57 Overlander that is beyond my scope. I was pretty disappointed to see that his Area 63 Productions has moved a little farther out from Los Angeles- I believe he used to be in Orange County but is now in San Bernardino County. I’m assuming he traveled to you? Just wondering if it’s realistic to think I might be able to hire him do the same. Thanks for any insight you can provide, and keep sharing your fantastic progress!

Sum, I sent you a private email in response to your post above.

Hank

[RankAm]

Some progress has been made on 8038, but I have not posted in a very long time, and I want to provide some explanation. Life has been full and challenging. I do intend to post in the near future regarding progress to date, but after those progress reports, I will stop posting to this thread (even though the renovations are not complete and 8038 is not yet roadworthy).

My purpose in creating this thread was to show how a rank amateur such as myself could tackle a down-to-the-ribs Airstream renovation. I was able, more-or-less by myself (with some very important and substantial help from many friends), to accomplish a good bit of work on 8038. I learned a lot about Airstream anatomy, sheet metal fabrication (including dent repairs), bending brakes, riveting, axles and their installation, sheet aluminum polishing, Zolatone, plumbing, AC and DC electrical, and many other skills. Even though I learned a great deal, I decided that I did not have sufficient skills to finish 8038 in a reasonable time period, and I decided that I needed to bring in professional assistance to get 8038 on the road. During 2017, I retained Uwe Salwender of Area 63 Productions (see here), and I did so again during September of 2018.

In a sense, my premise for this thread (to prove that an amateur could accomplish a renovation) has been shown to be false: given my skill set, I was unable to complete the task, and I have conceded that I need professional assistance. Even though I have failed to accomplish what I set out to accomplish, I hope that my experience does not discourage anyone who does have the time, skills, and energy to tackle a renovation. It has been a great experience, and I really did enjoy all my many hours working on 8038.

As you will see in the posts below:

The exterior of 8038 is pretty much sealed (but the belly pan needs considerable additional work).

All new wiring was run, and Uwe built the electrical center, which included a Boondocker converter/charger/AC-DC electrical center, inverter, solar panels and solar controller, Victron battery monitor, and Battle Born LiFePO batteries.

New insulation was installed, and the interior skins were reinstalled, primed, and Zolatoned.

The plumbing is mostly roughed in.

All of the interior plywood bulkheads have been roughed in.

The wetbath walls, shower pan, and toilet are roughed in.

The ceiling lights have been installed (except one that had to be replaced) and operate.

Due to circumstances beyond my control, I cannot be in Montana this year, so no additional work will be done on 8038 in 2019. I hope that 2020 will be the year 8038 returns to the road and gets to travel extensively.

Hank

[RankAm]

I encountered several problems with the belly pan: (1) c-channel problems and (2) a foam board insulation problem.

C-channel extending beyond subfloor: 8038 came from the factory with a one-piece belly pan. Over the years since 1956, that piece had been extensively damaged, and I decided to install all new belly metal. I chose to use multiple and smaller belly metal pieces (see here). Generally, a new belly metal piece would slide up between the exterior skin and the interior c-channel if I took my time and, if necessary, used a flat/putty knife (from above in the cabin or from underneath the trailer) to guide the piece. Sometimes, however, the belly metal piece would start to slide up into place but then hang up and not slide up as far as necessary (to be properly riveted in place). I eventually learned that the problem was that the c-channel in some places extended beyond the subfloor. Where that was true, the belly pan piece would slide up on the outside of the subfloor but then get trapped by the overhanging c-channel. After I figured this out (do not ask how long it took me to learn what was happening!), my helper and I would use a flat/putty knife (from above and/or below) to get the belly metal piece to the outside of the c-channel so that the belly metal would slide up as far as necessary.

C-channel not attached to subfloor: While installing the belly metal, I discovered that the c-channel was not anchored to floor at the streetside front corner of 8038. That prevented the belly metal piece from fitting properly. I fabricated a small hold-down plate to anchor the c-channel:




Foam board problem: I attached foam board insulation from underneath the trailer to the bottom of the subfloor. See here. I shaved the foam board at the edges where the subfloor met the outside skin of the trailer. I cut the foam board so that the belly pan piece, which transitions from horizontal to vertical, would not bind on the foam board. That generally worked fine, but not so fine for the four corner pieces of the belly metal. The problem at the four corners is that the belly metal angles to horizontal very quickly near the front or rear of the trailer (as compared to the more gradual transition for the sidewall belly metal pieces). I eventually learned from Uwe that the foam board had to be shaved back more extensively at the four corners. The third image in this post was my initial cut of the foam board at the corners. I ended up cutting off quite a bit more of the foam at the corners:


The following image shows the difference in angle at the nose of trailer (almost 90 degrees) v. the angle at the sidewall. You also can see how I used clamps and scrap wood to make the gradual bend for the proper fit to the sidewall.

[Bubba L]

Hank, hate to hear it. Your thread has helped me a lot in my venture. There are many tasks on a renovation that may exceed the limitations of the renovator. I’m no exception. I appreciate your candid honesty and that alone is an honorable trait. Good luck.

[RankAm]

The streetside front large fixed window has been no end of misery for me. When I was rehabbing the window frames (that I removed from 8038), this window frame was damaged by the polishing machine (see here). I then set out to repair that damage, and I created another problem with the frame. The second image in this post is where I made my mistake by flattening the inside perimeter of the frame (where the frame contacts and holds the window glass). That inside perimeter needs to stand proud of the rest of the frame, but I flattened the perimeter so that it was not proud of the frame, which caused a reduction in the pressure applied to the glass by the tension pieces on the inside of the window. See the third image in this post.

When I water leak checked 8038, this part of the window leaked badly because there was not enough pressure on the gasket to seal the joint between the glass and the gasket.

Uwe worked at length on the window. He partially disassembled the window (from the inside of 8038) by removing the glass, and then he used seem sealers and pliers to raise the perimeter so that the glass would stand proud of the rest of the frame. See here.

Uwe made a lot of progress on the frame, and then the glass was re-installed in the frame. Unfortunately, the next leak check showed water leaking past the window glass gasket; there just was not enough pressure on the gasket to seal that joint with the glass.

At Uwe’s suggestion, I used Capt. Tolley’s to attempt to fix the leak at the joint. This sealant comes out of the bottle in liquid form but dries like a gasket. I applied the sealant a number of times by holding the nozzle of the bottle beside or under the edge of the gasket, tipping the bottle up so that the liquid would flow out the nozzle, and having the liquid run under the gasket (sometimes I used a wooden toothpick to hold the gasket away from the glass). For the gasket along the bottom of the glass, I applied a small amount, and after each application, I went inside the trailer to clean up (with mineral spirits) any excess liquid that ran out. The interior walls and window trim had not been installed at the time, so I had full access to the inside of the window.

For the gasket along the side of the window, the liquid would run down towards the bottom of the window frame:

[Sorry, but the forum software insists on turning the image upside down.]

I applied a small amount at a time to let the liquid dry and begin to build up to create a water-tight seal. The following images are not very good, but if you look closely, you can see the lighter-colored Capt. Tolley’s material between the glass and the gasket:



To help the flow of the liquid to where it could seal the joint, I raised or lowered the nose of the trailer by cranking up or down the trailer jack: I tilted the trailer nose-low when applying the sealant to the gasket on the side of the window closest to the front of the trailer, and tilted nose-high when applying the sealant to the gasket on the side of the window closest to the rear of the trailer.

[RankAm]

At first, I intended to rehab and use the original Bargman tail light cans. See here. I spent a good bit of time and trouble trying to salvage the original cans, but I eventually decided to install the replacement cans from VTS:


I also re-installed the original Bargman surround trim rings:


The original rings have been replated, but the metal was so thin that the replating opened up some gaps in the rings. I applied some Trempro, and I hope that those original rings will last for a long while.

[RankAm]

8038 was a “park” model with 120v AC appliances, and the original fridge did not require a vent through the ceiling and roof. I am installing an LP fridge that requires both a roof vent (for hot air exhaust) and a sidewall vent (for fresh air supply).

I previously had riveted to the curbside exterior skin a grill mount described here. Unfortunately, the final interior layout for the fridge required that grill mount to be moved to make room for the fridge sidewall vent door.

I purchased this aluminum vent frame and door from VTS. The door comes painted, and I tried to remove the paint, as I want a shiny aluminum exterior all around 8038. I first tried a blowtorch to remove the paint, but I was not confident doing that, and I feared damaging the door. I then tried to strip the paint, but I was not satisfied with the results. One of the problems is that the door is made of very thin gauge aluminum, and bending the metal was a potential problem. I ended up sending off the door to a chrome plater, who stripped and polished the door, but advised against plating because the aluminum sheet was too thin.

I next cut the vent frame opening through the exterior skin. Some measuring and layout was required so that the opening would be in the correct position relative to where the fridge would be sitting on a platform inside 8038. I used a Sharpie pen to mark the cutline, and I applied painter tape on each side of the cutline:


I drilled holes inside the cutline in the corners, and I used a grinder with a cutoff wheel to cut the opening (which included cutting through some ribs and stringers).

Here is the unit roughed in:


I failed to fully think through the frame and door install, as I did not consider the necessity of screening behind the louvers to keep out the critters. Here was my starting point:


I used a grinder with a cutoff wheel to cut some aluminum sheet strips to hold screening in place:



This image shows the additional rivets that anchor the strips and screening in place:


Frame, door, and drip cap clecoed in place:


Hank

[RankAm]

Rebuild vent: My first task was to rebuild the vent unit due to a mis-alignment at the joint. I was concerned that the poor fit at the joint might lead to a leak, so I dis-assembled the unit, drilled new rivet holes in the backing plate, and re-riveted (using pop rivets) the vent:





Hole in exterior roof: Next up was cutting a hole in the roof of the trailer, something that made me nervous. I had some layout and registration to do, and then I made a cardboard template of the bottom of the vent to use to mark the cutline for the roof vent:


I did all of my layout and marking from the inside of 8038 because my positioning of the roof hole depended upon the location of the fridge inside the coach:


The vent clecoed in place (with the location of the vent cover marked in red):


Hole in interior ceiling: I discuss the hole in the interior ceiling piece in a post below.

Exterior view with vent cover riveted in place:

[Sorry again for the incorrect orientation of the image]

Hank