A/S Quality-A Different Perspective

[moosetags]

I have my own perspective on Airstream quality after pretty extensive use. Now that we have topped 800 nights of camping and 70,000 miles of towing, I would like to muse reflectively on the Airstream Experience from my own point of view.

Let me start by saying that Lucy has had her problems. The filiform corrosion has been disappointing. There have been a couple of minor leaks. Cabinet doors needed adjustment from new. The water heater has malfunctioned. The ST tires were crummy. The original wheels were a poor design. The seat cushions didn't hold up.

That being said, having Lucy has been a wonderful experience. All the little things have been and will continue to be corrected. We live with her corrosion along with the many rock dings on her proud nose. We just use the heck out of her and have a great time everywhere we go. Any lack of fit and finish is secondary to the fun and adventures that we have had and continue to have with her.

Everywhere we go, we always look at new RV's of every type. Lucy stacks up favorably to any of them in the fit and finish area. Airstreams are not perfect, but are as good as anything out there.

In my way of thinking, having great Airstream adventures is a very important part of my life. Worrying about quality control issues is NOT.

Brian

[Mexray]

We were hankered down during a big 'blow' one night in Nevada, a couple of weeks ago...the winds were hammering us as they rolled over the Sierra Nevada mountains!...Rockin' and Rollin' was the theme for about three hours, along with some snow flurries to add to the 'enjoyment'...

As boaters also, we were happy we didn't have to deal with the dragging anchor issue, but in the morning, our door mat was missing and had 'dragged' itself a couple hundred yards away, up into a tree!

Our old aluminum 'hull' hung in there like one of those crab boats up in Alaska!....just more fun times on the road in an AS!

[slowmover]

What's been in my mind as I read this: give it the smoothest ride possible.

[au_ee]

Originally Posted by moosetags

Everywhere we go, we always look at new RV's of every type. Lucy stacks up favorably to any of them in the fit and finish area. Airstreams are not perfect, but are as good as anything out there.

In my way of thinking, having great Airstream adventures is a very important part of my life. Worrying about quality control issues is NOT.

Brian

Brian, You make a very good point. We've been RV'ng for the past 30 years. Although I'm a little disappointed that the AS, considering the high cost, doesn't have better Quality Assurance, we've seen similar problems on other units. We haven't owned an RV, whether it was a popup camper, MH or TT, that didn't require seasonal repairs of some sort. Some problems are due to poor design or workmanship and others are inevitable due to the vibration of the road and age.

[Fly at Night]

Very interesting thread. Here's my story (so far).

- purchased my 2010 Flying Cloud in February of this year (2011) right in the midst of the wettest winter/spring on record

- unit was in the showroom

- I had decided to go for A/S because I did not want to encounter the leakage problems of the cheaper shite out there

- brought unit home and discovered leak in bathroom wall seam

- hauled unit back two days ago, and just received a phone call from dealership. There was an open seam near one of the roof vents. They assured me that the issue has been repaired. The unit is still there as tow vehicle is in the shop now

- since I am in the process of filling out the new owner survey from A/S, I indicated to the A/S head office that I was very annoyed to encounter a leak in a new unit that has been towed less than 20 miles (from dealership to home and back)

- one of the repairmen at the dealership was quite blunt with me (and I appreciate him for that). He said they "Just do not build them like they used to, but they are still the best trailer out there."

So, I guess it all comes down to one's interpretation of "...the best trailer out there." Even though my A/S experience is limited, it would appear that the majority of A/Streamers are quite happy with their unit. I also appreciate that anything and everything in a wet climate will eventually leak. I did not expect this in my new A/S though, as I thought they were vigorously checked for leaks before leaving the factory.

My advice or those living in a wet climate: make sure the unit is on the lot and not in the showroom so you will be exposed to any leaks.

Aside from that, I would have to agree with Brian. I am still quite infatuated by the whole A/S culture, so look foward to my first road trip.
I bought the unit to enjoy -- to get away from life's stresses and strains -- so am not going to let this first "bump in the road" or "leak in the roof" marr my anticipation.

Signed,
Still infatuated and a bit wet....(behind the ears, perhaps?)

[kevin242]

I heard a story many years ago about a Japanese shipment of electronic components to a RV manufacturer. The manufacturer indicated in the contract that the defect rate of components must be no more than 5%.

This detail was lost in translation by the Japanese supplier... When the order of 10,000 components arrived, there was a second box with the shipment that contained 500 "defective" components. The delivery form read:

"We have supplied the 10,000 units you ordered, which are all guaranteed to have been tested and 100% reliable, and we have also supplied the additional 5% defective units you wanted. We are not sure why you wanted defective products, but we packaged them separately so they would not get mixed in with the functioning ones."

Now THAT'S the kind of thinking I like!

Kevin

[masseyfarm]

Chances are it won't be the last "bump"'
But enjoyment is how you see it, and a little adversity just adds color to the campfire stories.
Dave

[Fly at Night]

Originally Posted by masseyfarm

Chances are it won't be the last "bump"'
But enjoyment is how you see it, and a little adversity just adds color to the campfire stories.
Dave

Hi masseyfarm,

ahhhhhhh, another Canuck.

I suspect I'll have a few....especially after my first trip. My trailer ignorance is appalling, the trailer towing skills are rudimentary (at best), and all living things and/or inanimate objects are in great peril when I back-up.

Those "bumps" will be more like Olympic-sized moguls. FAN's campfire stories ought to be a real dilly!

[Doug2009FC]

Originally Posted by jcanavera

The reality is that as a product's price goes up, there is the expectation that there will be fewer problems that a lower priced product. Unfortunately that line of thinking doesn't always carry over and to many of us, that's not acceptable.

We are dealing with a handbuilt trailer that at this point isn't automated. One of the successes of the automobile industry that we point to as an example is created from the level of automation used. I toured the GM full size van plant here in the STL area a few years back. It was riveting to watch the windshield installation. A robot picks up the windshield and then pivots the windshield while another devices applies the sealant. The amount of sealant is precise with the placement right at the correct spots. The robot then places the windshield into the framed opening of the van. It's fast efficient and probably has a rate of failure which is miniscule compared to humans doing the same task. And unless something breaks, it's done the same way every time...

As long as you have a human in the picture doing the work, you can never build a vehicle with the level of uniformity and quality that the robot can put out.

Will I still be disappointed to find that whoever installed my water pump put it so close to the wheel well that I can't put in a winterizing valve without having to remount the water pump? Sure, but I'm a realist enought to understand that the installer has an area to put it into, and unless someone in quality control steps up and says, "we need a template to make sure we install this in exactly this spot", I going to be subject to human judgements or frailities.

That's where management has to step in and determine what the market will bear, as far as pricing goes, and the cost to improve the quality level of the trailer. The biggest issue that Airstream has to handle is that they build 25-28 trailers a week. Hard to get a good return on investment in developing and building an automated process to improve quality in contrast to the numbers of automobiles built.

Jack

Jack, had the same issue winterizing my 2009 27FB. I managed to get the valve installed after :30 of using using my favorite sailor language I learned in the Navy. With the valve and small hose being so cheap, I wonder why A/S didn't have a three-way valve installed just for this purpose?

[Stork]

It's interesting...I read these threads and see people pointing out good bad and otherwise but come on! If you spend 50 to 80 grand on a trailer, do you really think it's ok if it leaks! I have a 20 year old tent that's been through far worse conditions than my trailer ever will be but it never once leaked...if a company that boasts it's longevity of production and only improves it's products over time can't be as sturdy as a nylon bag with some thread...There's something wrong! And suggesting that it's acceptable because you're the one that paid for the shiny object that drips...that's sad too. I've owned many a hardtop tent trailer that bounce down the freeway far worse than any Airstream but yet they don't leak....And oddly enough you can have two king beds in a pop up trailer that's 12 feet long....But that's a whole different beef.

I love my old Argosy, but leaks are unacceptable and a real bed would make it even better than that 12 foot Coleman tent trailer!

Let's not forget you can buy many an aircraft for similar prices to a new Airstream, they have wings, an engine, lots of cool gauges, AND a whole bunch of aluminum and rivets too!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Auto's, boat's, airplane's, tent's.... what should we compare them to next?

Paperclip's, thumbtack's, clothespin's and staples?

I have already rationalized it.....design is wonderful, QC sux.

[eubank]

Ah, shucks, our Airstream has always been more reliable than my car!

(Of course, some snotnose will come along and point out what kind of car I drive.)


Lynn

[blmitch5]

Originally Posted by eubank

Ah, shucks, our Airstream has always been more reliable than my car!

(Of course, some snotnose will come along and point out what kind of car I drive.)


Lynn

Well now that you brought it up....

[SilverRanger]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Auto's, boat's, airplane's, tent's.... what should we compare them to next?

Paperclip's, thumbtack's, clothespin's and staples?

I have already rationalized it.....design is wonderful, QC sux.

I'm still waiting for the first alien spaceship to land so we can do a real QC comparison .

In the meantime, at Alumapalooza this year, the organizers fabricated a huge aluminum thank you card to presented to Airstream (and CEO Bob Wheeler) for letting us "Return to the Mothership". Like the first year, Alumapalooza 2011 was a blast, and I think it is the model for how a large rally should be held. We're already signed up for next year.

They even had some sessions in which they asked for suggestions on how they could improve the product. One for men, and one for women. The discussion was lively and productive. Although the sessions were far too short, I learned a few things, and even took a few notes. I had a few suggestions written down in advance, but they all were quickly, and enthusiastically, covered by other people, so I didn't get a word in. Some of the things I thought were noteworthy or qouteworthy regarding factory quality control:

1. They installed Shop-Vacs at some stations to sweep up the construction debris. (This was one of the livelier of topics)
2. They were "trying to instill discipline in their workers to use them".
3. They don't run a "quota system". (I'm not sure about the context of that, but it must have been significant because I wrote it down.)
4. Towing an Airstream is the equivalent of subjecting your trailer to a 7.5 earthquake. (Now, there's some practical perspective.)

Anyway, the organizers left the giant thank you card out to be signed by as many people as possible. As you can see from the pictures, I've made peace, and now have some closure, with Airstream , and it was from the heart .

[eubank]

Originally Posted by blmitch5

Well now that you brought it up....

The logo tells it all ...

Lynn

[blmitch5]

So does mine

[Gringo]

ha. We drive 4x4's that you are not even allowed to own in Kansas or New Mexico..

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Stork

~~

Let's not forget you can buy many an aircraft for similar prices to a new Airstream, they have wings, an engine, lots of cool gauges, AND a whole bunch of aluminum and rivets too!

I'm not defending Airstream's exorbitant prices on new trailers, but let's be honest about that statement... you can buy many a 25- to 50-year-old aircraft, and a few newer kit planes or needy aircraft that are $10k short of airworthiness for under $60k. Let's not have the people who aren't into aircraft think you can buy a 10-year-old Mooney for $60k. Then again most of them wouldn't know what a Mooney is.

[Gene]

I've had my share of bad cars, including the two marques just above, but back to Airstreams.

First (What we bought):

Ours had scores of problems under warranty—maybe 60, some repeating.

The dealer was a bad, bad experience—damaging our trailer and being difficult about warranty items.

Airstream's Service Center generally does a very good job, though there were a few things not done right.

QC in the factory was bad: obvious that supervision is inadequate and employees are not trained well.

Design issues persist such as the water pump placement Pat described above and the placement of wiring under the propane cover.

Poor communication within the company about all these issues.

Typical corporate cost cutting measures that result in junk components and poor workmanship at all levels.

A lot of cheap parts that fail quickly or are just cheap looking and fail eventually.

Second (Solutions):

Follow issues on this Forum and learn from it.

We were persistent in getting things fixed.

Problems have decreased since warranty expired.

We are upgrading many things—wheels, tires, solar system, converter, batteries, add Venetian blinds, etc. Many things will probably come—perhaps seat cushions (covers badly made, cheap material, no linings).

Learn the product and fix things before they break and maintain as necessary. This requires a lot of tools, time, persistence, study and liberal does of cursing.

Third (Use it):

As Moosetags said well, we enjoy it. We have traveled only about half as much as Brian and SuEllyn, but we like hanging out in it, eating in it, sleeping in it.

Basic design is iconic and we like it—less wind resistance, looks cool.

Interior on ours is aluminum and sparkles with various lighting combinations. We decorate to enhance or for amusement.

Fourth (What did we learn from this?):

If I knew then what I know now, I would have looked for gently used. I would have looked at newer designs like Earthbound and trailers like Arctic Fox which have better reliability reputations and some nice floorplans.

No regrets—we did the best we could. We are making the best we can out of it. We are determined to make it as good as Airstream did not.

No plans to sell it and buy something else. It remains cool and it is uniquely ours by now.

Fifth (What did JC learn from this):

They may have gotten the message at JC and improved workmanship, but the problems of 2008 (and other years) take a long time to straighten out.

If you got a trouble free trailer, good for you then or now; if you got problems, I think JC should have extended warranties to make up for that, but they chose not to.

When people ask us about our Airstream, we tell them the good and the bad; word of mouth reputation can hurt or help. JC brought it upon themselves.

Gene

[Nuvite-F]

Originally Posted by Gringo

ha. We drive 4x4's that you are not even allowed to own in Kansas or New Mexico..

What kind of 4x4 aren't you allowed to own in Kansas or NM?
.