Total Brake Failure ( 2008 31' Classic)

[Hap3]

Just returned home from having the Hydraulic brakes lockup with fluid and smoke coming out from the wheels. Trailer was pulling hard up until I stopped on an off ramp. I let everything cool down and returned home. Pulled fine with no braking on the trailer. Brake fluid leaking when I applied the brakes parking it next to the house. I think I recall something about the brake system having a recall but at the time my unit's serial number wasn't in the range of failures and I've not received any notice from AS. I would appreciate it if anyone who could shed some light on this issue.

Thanks Rich

[GCinSC2]

Rich,

I know you're going to get more answers from more SR. members, but my trailer and I have gotten to know each other in the brake area and we still have some work ahead.

I think my first question is did the actuator create a drag pressure in the system causing the pads to have pressure applied, or did your controller send a signal telling the actuator to apply pressure, but the one that you can look at right now is the individual brake hoses. Many have reported (me included) that the hose gets kinked right where it enters the caliper. Restricting fluid flow. Sorry, I do not know what years and models this can happen to. It happened to me on one wheel. I have since completely reconfigured the hose to caliper to eliminate the kink. I also suggest finding the leak, did you burn up the pads and somehow create the leak?

Were you "heavy"? Tanks full, lots of stuff in the AS?

One thing that I did and I am glad I did was install a tire pressure monitoring system. Mine uses internal sensors and they also signal if you get a hot wheel/tire.

You might want to post what controller you have.

Good luck.

[bjond]

Search for Actibrake if you have disk brakes and this brand of actuator on the Airstream. I had a friend and he had the same problem you had. Airstream replaced his actuator ( its mounted behind the gas bottles and is a hydraulic pump) They shipped us a new unit and we replaced his defective unit. Unfortunately Actibrake went out of business so I'm not sure what is being used now.

[Hap3]

Checking out the lines to the brake Calibers I find that 3 of the 4 lines are not connected to the brake Caliber but the clamps are still on the hoses.
It appears the brakes got so hot that the lines let go that explains the trail of brake fluid behind the wheels. AS is my next contact.

[halimer]

I had similar problems, but it was not the actuator. First problem was with the rubber brake hoses linking at the fitting at the caliber. I have since replace all the lines with braided stainless ones. I'll have to post some photos later. Don Schumann was very impressed with what I did.
Second problem was with my Hayes Genesis brake controller. It would periodically apply the brakes. Hayes sent me two of them since 2007. The last one I will sell on eBay. Using a Tekonsha P3.

Mark

[boondockdad]

Here's a pic of recalled Actibrake actuator (dark grey version):


The recall covers only units that have failed because of an improperly fabricated fluid reservoir.
Jackson Center will remove the unit, drill a hole in the bottom (into the motherboard cavity), and if fluid leaks out- they know they've got a bad one.
Actibrake is out of business.
J/C is using the Dexter 1600psi model for replacement.

If the recall failure happens while in transit, your brakes lock up.

------

My brake failure involved the flexible caliper brake lines. Original line shown here:


These will fail because they are too short.
Here's a pic of line with axle under full load (max travel).


Detail of where the nipple collar cuts into the line:



Between the lock-up, then leaking, sounds like you might have had both failures...

[wmarsha]

Just in general, if the hydraulic lines rupture or disconnect somehow from the caliper, there will be no braking action-and therefore, no locking up, no smoke, etc. Now if the locking up smoking, etc CAUSED the flex lines to the calipers to burn/rupture/break, then the problem is not the flex lines. I think the root cause is incorrect apply-which leads ya right back to the hydraulic pump that is electric powered from the tow vehicle. There you have two distinct things to check: 1) the operation of the pump 2) the "correctness" of the signal to the pump from the TV. This is why some of the replies mention the TV's electric brake controller. You know, this thread bothers me, because hydraulic disc brake systems should be better than the magnet apply "electric" brakes. Now from statements here on the forum, ol' 2air has put a zillion miles on his 3 axle unit with no troubles on the brakes but 2air is the man when it comes to maintenance. He figgers out how something works, what it takes to keep it that way, and then does it. BUT, I wonder about the old horse trailers that had hydraulic brakes that directly connected into the TV's braking system. Anything like that out there for a travel trailer? on edit, finalcutjoe has what appears to me to be two of two problems-good stuff, joe.

[Hap3]

The picture of the Brake Actuator is identical to my unit. AS won't have to drill a hole to check it out at this point. The rotors have a blue tint to them, apparently from thre heat however they never locked up completely and as I said before there are 3 hyrolic lines which are not connected to the calipers. I'm waiting for a return call from AS before I take the trailer into the local dealer. The unit is out of warranty by 11 months, this could be an issue, I hope not.

[wmarsha]

so it appears that the forum has had: 1)kinking, leaking flex lines to calipers 2)ineffective brake pump actuator 3)ineffective brake controllers. it appears hap has burned rotors, probably worn pads and ruined flex lines; he also indicates that A/S will not have to test Actibrake by drilling-apparently he knows it is shot. Edit: you all are probably wondering what the heck I am doing chiming in on this thread? Well, I am about to replace axles and was thinking of Disk Brakes, too. Hmmmm.

[Melody Ranch]

Just out of curiosity....have you recently had any work done on the electrical connectors? One false move on the blue wire and you have exactly your problem....hard to tow, then lock up with leaks and smoke.

[Hap3]

I've not had anyone work on the brakes since the trailer was new. I've not had a braking problem at all until this weekend. The brakes have work well. Much smoother than electric brakes I might add, so I felt AS had really improved the unit. I've pulled AS since I purchased a new Excella 500 in 1979.

[GCinSC2]

Finalcutjoe,

Very good pictures showing the hose with the axle unloaded and with a load, those really captured the kink. Very accurate images.

Rich,

Were you heavy that trip? Full tanks etc. That pushes the "axle swingarm" up higher and makes the hoses go tighter as Joe's pic shows.

I think I have been battling a set of planetary alignment issues that have resulted in my brake situations, I have more to post, but I don't want to post w/o more complete information. One clue, involves a bit more DOT 3. Sorry, I have no electromagnet based braking experience to compare from.

[Hap3]

GCinSC2 No I was rather light as we were heading out for a 4 day camp in the national forest. Probably one of the lighter weight trips in a long time. ( est. 8400 lbs) We average about 7,000 miles a year and have for more than 10 years. (Est average 8,700 lbs ) Thanks for asking though. AS has agreed to take look at the situation once I get into the dealer. But they can't schdule it in for 3 weeks.

[GCinSC2]

Rich,

Good luck, hopefully it will get resolved w/o too much grief. Any chance to get a picture of one of the hose failures? And maybe a picture of the intact hose taken with the tire on and the trailer on the ground, normal trailer situation. Once you raise the trailer and take a wheel off as in Joe's picture the hose shows a normal curve, what does it look like in a loaded position like Joe's other picture?

Please post the solution(s) and work preformed to help us learn a bit more.

Gary

[halimer]

Here are some photos of my brake hoses and fitttings:

[GCinSC2]

I had brake hoses that I believe were too short also, evidenced by a hot brake one day and tell tale kink folds in the hose at the caliper fitting. I searched for off the shelf longer lines, found some, installed them could be end of story, wasn't. Due to a different circumstance, my axles got replaced, time to bleed again, didn't come out right --- trapped air inboard caliper. I decided to incorporate the option to bleed the inboard caliper seperate from the outboard caliper.

The picture is a bit awquard to look at, the wheel is not off and very difficult to find the right shot.

AS routed the hose in from behind the swingarm, route it forward and arc over then down into the caliper. I chose to come in from under, arc up and them back into the caliper. Short bill of material, hose, 3/16" brake line coupling, 3/16" - 3/8" inverted flare to M10 bubble steel line. Dexter uses an M10 bubble connection on the caliper and I wanted to go straight in so using an 8" adaptor line bent to shape with a brake line bending tool to 3/8" coupling to hose, I got what I was looking for. The line is also secured with a short fabricated bracket with a line clamp to the caliper. All brake line, hose and coupling were off the shelf auto parts store items.

The as issued plumbing required an almost total disassembly back to the steel supply line to do any servicing.

Benifits IMHO, kinking- gone, ability to crack the line on the inboard caliper to bleed inboard - available, line can be tightened into position w/o twisting the line, open line anywhere, yup.

This is my .02$, I did what I felt would meet my expectations, your decision is yours, these are brakes we're working on here.

If I were to start over, I'd look at completely re-routing the hose in from ahead of the swingarm, not from behind it.

[Darkspeed]

Wrong fluid?

If the wrong fluid is used it will expand causing the brake to drag on the rotor causing more pressure and heat until it all ruptures.

[GCinSC2]

Originally Posted by Hap3

AS has agreed to take look at the situation once I get into the dealer. But they can't schdule it in for 3 weeks.

Hap3,

Any update on the inspection or repair?

Gary

[boondockdad]

After replacing the OEM "Actibrake" actuator, with a "Dexter" model-- I don't think the Acti' ever functioned properly. The Dex' seems to provide much more 'grab'.
Also, Dex' appears to be much more solid- having an all metal casing.
Another difference is the fluid reservoir. I could bleed all four calipers, before having to top-off the Acti'- whereas, Dex' needs toping off after one.

[boondockdad]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

I chose to come in from under, arc up and them back into the caliper. Short bill of material, hose, 3/16" brake line coupling, 3/16" - 3/8" inverted flare to M10 bubble steel line. Dexter uses an M10 bubble connection on the caliper and I wanted to go straight in so using an 8" adaptor line bent to shape with a brake line bending tool to 3/8" coupling to hose, I got what I was looking for. The line is also secured with a short fabricated bracket with a line clamp to the caliper. All brake line, hose and coupling were off the shelf auto parts store items.

The as issued plumbing required an almost total disassembly back to the steel supply line to do any servicing.

Benifits IMHO, kinking- gone, ability to crack the line on the inboard caliper to bleed inboard - available, line can be tightened into position w/o twisting the line, open line anywhere, yup.

This is my .02$, I did what I felt would meet my expectations, your decision is yours, these are brakes we're working on here.

If I were to start over, I'd look at completely re-routing the hose in from ahead of the swingarm, not from behind it.

That's interesting how they ran it 'under and over'. Our calipers are completely symmetrical. The brake line feed, in your pic, is interchangeable with the connecting line (metal tube connecting inner and outer caliper) shown at the bottom of the pic. That is, you could run the feed from the actuator into the bottom port, and flip the connector pipe to the top.