Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-11-2020, 11:09 AM   #21
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by overlander63 View Post
FYI, we've had problems with Prodigy RF when the trailer is equipped with solar. What they told me was if the trailer battery has higher voltage than the tow vehicle, the controller won't work properly. They said they were working on a fix, but I haven't heard back from them yet about it.
Terry, we have no solar on our 1960 Avion T20, but may do at some point with the flexible panels TBD -- so don't have your issue.

I'd suggest that you check back with Tekonsha for updates, because they may lose track of your status update request.

As a temporary work around when it happens, you can just unhook one side of your house battery(ies) circuit while towing, so that you don't have the higher trailer power issue.

Another temporary fix that you might want to try, is using that Curt 7-pin adapter for the Euro & UK SUVs & some newer Big 3 TVs that bypasses their built-in circuit testing - just to see if it will also bypass your over-power situation. You may have to try it both on the end between the RF & Trailer, as well as in the normal 7-pin on the TV position.

https://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Tow-Ready/20142.html

This is the same adapter discussed in the Cayenne/Touareg/Audi Q7 TV Topic as a Reese unit, but Tow Ready bought Reese & rebranded it, still with the same part no.

Solar generally includes a larger bank of batteries for solar storage, then even a 2-4 battery pack of the non-solar trailers - so it's not surprising that your Lithium or other type multi-battery bank puts out, & that would affect any in-line brake controller since it also runs through the power wire (usually white wire) of your 7-pin umbilical cord, which runs through the RF unit (as in my pic above).

Since the Echo is also in-line of the 7-pin, I'd suspect that it too could be affected by a large enough solar storage battery bank, unless they have the control override circuitry in them already, being a newer design.
.

FYI for All - Tekonsha is part of the same group of companies under Horizon Global (see link below), including: Reese, Draw-Tite, Bargman, Westfalia (towing products) - so they're part of a competitor group to Curt.

https://www.horizonglobal.com/brands

Hopefully they get a fix for it soon.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2020, 11:35 AM   #22
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marygb View Post
I agree, which is the reason I will go with the CURT ECHO! BTW, it was the Scottsdale AZ Airstream dealership. their hourly rate is somewhere near $300.
Mary,

There is another good Independent Trailer/TV Shop in the PHX area that we've used on a trip before that was reliable, reasonably priced & did good work - unfortunately I don't have their info handy. So you might check in the Trailer Shop Sub-Forum on here &/or post a request for PHX Indy shop reccos.

It sounds like your AS dealer both inflated the hours to install, & has a high hourly rate.

Personally, I would never let an AS nor any other trailer dealer or shop install anything on a Rover, BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. - because they can really screw up a very expensive vehicle, & it may negate your warranty to allow them to work on your vehicle while still under the factory &/or manufacturer's CPO warranties.

If you've not yet purchased the Echo, then you may want to check around for the issues on here, and consider the following.

We'll be resuming our search for a Cayenne when things get back to normal and we can travel again (have been renting Trucks & SUVs since 2013 instead of owning a TV), but I would NOT want to put any controller into the Cayenne, nor in a RR, BMW, MBZ nor any luxury SUV - just to keep it pristine.

So the Echo & Tekonsha RF are the routes I would take. The Echo is new & I did look at it, but I've been very happy with our Tek RF, & it was the only one not installed in the TV when we got it in 2012.

If I had the choice today, I think that I'd still go with the RF, because I'm not a fan of using a smartphone/touchscreen based system where you have to take your eyes off the road in an emergency situation in order to SEE where to push the trailer brake boost button to either bring the trailer under control, during hard braking, or to aid in a panic stop, etc.

Whereas, the Tek RF hand control unit has real buttons which you can easily find & push without taking your eyes off the road - so I prefer that.

I even use the RF, over the built-in brake controllers which come equipped on the F250s & RAM 2500s that we rent from Enterprise Truck Rental.

It's the same problem as with all the new vehicles with everything controlled by the touch screens - instead of manual controls which you can find by touch with your eyes still on the road. Having to do your radio/audio controls, climate controls, etc. by touch screen is just dangerous & dumb IMHO.

So that's another consideration for you in your choices - Curt Echo or Tekonsha RF.

Either way - you won't have to get into the Rover to install anything, nor to remove it later to install in your next TV - or buy yet another to install in the next TV - & you can use any other loaner, rented or borrowed TV in a pinch without worrying about them having a brake controller installed. It's just so much easier with on off-board brake controller.

Hopefully some more food for thought for you.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 07:52 AM   #23
TravelswithCharley
 
2017 22' Sport
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 45
Images: 2
so the CURT wouldn't work for me. Spent 2 hours playing with it hooked to the RR and a trailer with brakes at the trailer shop. It just kept blinking red on the setup, and losing Bluetooth. Even CURT couldn't figure it out so I walked away. I canceled the Airstream dealership appointment for today. I have a couple of weeks to find the right controller.
I like the idea of the trailer mounted unit, but I do have solar, so unsure about that. I am erring towards a CURT Spectrum which does have a dash dial. Any further opinions and/or advise welcome. I simply refuse to pay $1400 for a brake controller.
Marygb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 10:55 AM   #24
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
A Question for the Echo Collective:

Another concern that I was thinking about the other day with the Echo, is how secure is it stuck into the 7-pin connector on the TV & not securely mounted to either TV or trailer - because I've had the misfortune to have the regular 7-pin umbilical cable pop out if not exactly secure & lose all power/lights/brakes in the Avion. And yes, I always check it at the start & every stop along the way, but shift happens!

This is a problem for many others since the 1950's, & those on AirForums included, who've had their 7-pin pop out & get destroyed on the road - & the joy of getting the magnetic temporary lights out & tow without brakes to the nearest shop is no fun, even if you happen to carry a spare 7-pin connector &/or one with the cable to replace it roadside (I carry both + magnetic lights nowadays).

The Echo just pops into the 7-pin on the TV, with the trailer's 7-pin & umbilical plugged into it & with its weight & drag pulling on the connectors, which are just friction fit plastic, electrical pins & the plastic safety clip which doesn't always work properly to hold it - as shown in their pic below:


.


So can the Echo owners please report back on how secure this connection is, & any mishaps?

It may be too soon to have any pop-outs yet, but it's one of those things where some are bound to pop-out eventually, & destroy the Echo bouncing along the roadway. It would seem a better solution to mount the Echo on the Trailer with it's own 7-pin umbilical to the TV, similar to the Tekonsha Prodigy RF in the pic below (but Echo is smaller).
.


And FYI for All - Here's a pic of the Tekonsha RF - the easy to use hand control unit plugs into your TV's 12v Round/Cig.Lighter outlet for power, & the big button on the left side of it is the easy to use boost button that I was talking about in my prior post above.

The controller box on the right mounts anywhere on the A-frame or front of a trailer with line of sight to the TV cabin clear for the RF signal (i.e.: not behind the LP tanks or similar), with the umbilical to the TV, & receptacle for the TT's 7-pin at the rear of the box. The Tek RF's inner workings are essentially the same as for the under dash Prodigy P3, but stays with the trailer. Regardless of TV, & can easily pair to multiple TVs & remembers them all - & even pairs once for the multiple different F250s & RAM 2500s that we've rented from Enterprise Truck Rental 2014-present, & the prior several Nissan Pathfinders rented from TRAC in 2013.



It looks like current pricing on the Echo is about 60-70% of the full retail on the Tekonsha RF (same controller innards as the under dash Prodigy P3), but the Tek RF can be found for less on sale many places. Being a newer model, I don't know if the Echo will go on sale for a while yet.

As I said, I'd still prefer the Tek RF for the secure mounting, tactile boost button, & long proven design - but I do think that the Echo is a slick idea - just not great in use with a "blind search" touchscreen controller & questionable mounting of the controller unit in the 7-pin noted above (maybe Curt will offer other options form mounting & a tactile controller unit later).

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 12:09 PM   #25
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marygb View Post
so the CURT wouldn't work for me. Spent 2 hours playing with it hooked to the RR and a trailer with brakes at the trailer shop. It just kept blinking red on the setup, and losing Bluetooth. Even CURT couldn't figure it out so I walked away. I canceled the Airstream dealership appointment for today. I have a couple of weeks to find the right controller.
I like the idea of the trailer mounted unit, but I do have solar, so unsure about that. I am erring towards a CURT Spectrum which does have a dash dial. Any further opinions and/or advise welcome. I simply refuse to pay $1400 for a brake controller.
Mary, as I posted above for Terry/Overlander63 in my post #21, with the solar battery bank feedback problem with his Tek RF, that he can disconnect the battery bank while towing to stop the feedback problem, until Tekonsha has a fix.

So you can get the try the Tek RF with your AS's set-up & see if it does indeed have the house-battery bank feedback problem (not all solar equipped ASs & other TTs have big battery banks), & do the same thing.

Terry was the first time that I'd heard of this issue, but then it may not affect other Prodigy & other controllers the same way when the Solar & big storage battery bank equipped trailers are hooked-up.

But it would be good if others who have had the same problem with in/under dash brake controllers have had the house battery bank & solar problem report it on here &/or in the Solar Power Sub-Forum(s).

For both Terry & Mary, & everyone else - you can easily add an automotive battery kill switch of any type to your house battery set or bank, to turn the battery set/bank on & off without disconnecting the connector.

PS - The battery on-off switch will resolve it I would think, since the trailer's lights & brakes would run off the TV's battery power via the 7-pin connector - so long as the trailer's exterior running lights & electric brakes are on a separate circuit, or can be separated from the house battery cut-off switch circuit.

Your local FLAPS (F...... Local Auto Parts Store) carries at least inexpensive basic ones like the NAPA one linked & in photo below, & places like Summit Racing (.com) carry upscale & remote mounted kill switches that can be placed wherever is convenient (see further below).

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NW_7...yABEgJw3_D_BwE


.


Summit Choices:

https://www.summitracing.com/search/...ill%20switches

from search above:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/jrc-654-2353-90



and this too:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/edm-ks-101



Many more listed there, & at other vendors.

Some of these could be wired to & mounted right by the AS door for ease of access, as well as for quick emergency shut-off as you exit a trailer with problems, or to mount right next to the battery bank or Solar Control Center. It just needs to be wired into the wiring harness where it won't be bypassed by other circuitry.

But I wouldn't advise outside the door or on the A-frame by the Tek RF, both due to weather/wetness concerns for a switch meant for interior use, & if outside the door all of your smart-a friends can walk by & kill your power as a prank.

So this is not only a workaround for the Solar/Battery Bank issue, but a great safety device to have in any trailer regardless (Note to me, get one & install it ).

Google for price &/or local stores for them, as they're carried many places.

These have been required for many years on race cars in order to quickly cut off the electrical power in an accident, fire, rescue, etc. situations on track.

IMHO they're a good idea to have a battery cut-off in any trailer in case of fire, electrical short, battery problems, etc. (note to self for to do list ).

Hopefully this lifts the concern of the Tekonsha RF with Solar Equipped Trailers, until Tekonsha issues a fix, but the kill switch is still a good idea to have one (reminder Tom, add to the to do list dang it )

Hope this helps y'all or y'uns!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 08:28 AM   #26
3 Rivet Member
 
kevinkatz's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Curtis Wright
San Marcos , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 231
Images: 38
Send a message via AIM to kevinkatz
Battery cutoff switch

I use the tekonsha rf on my BMW X5 and have loved it. I recently put in a lithium battery that is often over 13v and has been as high as 13.5v and I have never had an issue with the rf. I have a battery cut off that I always use when I store the trailer and it helps draw down especially with my inverter that seems to use power even when I don’t have anything connected to it and using it.
I don’t think I would drive with the battery disconnected because if the break away switch was activated, I think the brakes would need the battery power to stop the trailer.
kevinkatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 10:17 AM   #27
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 22' Sport
Carlsbad , California
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
A Question for the Echo Collective:



Another concern that I was thinking about the other day with the Echo, is how secure is it stuck into the 7-pin connector on the TV & not securely mounted to either TV or trailer - because I've had the misfortune to have the regular 7-pin umbilical cable pop out if not exactly secure & lose all power/lights/brakes in the Avion. And yes, I always check it at the start & every stop along the way, but shift happens!



This is a problem for many others since the 1950's, & those on AirForums included, who've had their 7-pin pop out & get destroyed on the road - & the joy of getting the magnetic temporary lights out & tow without brakes to the nearest shop is no fun, even if you happen to carry a spare 7-pin connector &/or one with the cable to replace it roadside (I carry both + magnetic lights nowadays).



The Echo just pops into the 7-pin on the TV, with the trailer's 7-pin & umbilical plugged into it & with its weight & drag pulling on the connectors, which are just friction fit plastic, electrical pins & the plastic safety clip which doesn't always work properly to hold it - as shown in their pic below:





.





So can the Echo owners please report back on how secure this connection is, & any mishaps?



It may be too soon to have any pop-outs yet, but it's one of those things where some are bound to pop-out eventually, & destroy the Echo bouncing along the roadway. It would seem a better solution to mount the Echo on the Trailer with it's own 7-pin umbilical to the TV, similar to the Tekonsha Prodigy RF in the pic below (but Echo is smaller).

.





And FYI for All - Here's a pic of the Tekonsha RF - the easy to use hand control unit plugs into your TV's 12v Round/Cig.Lighter outlet for power, & the big button on the left side of it is the easy to use boost button that I was talking about in my prior post above.



The controller box on the right mounts anywhere on the A-frame or front of a trailer with line of sight to the TV cabin clear for the RF signal (i.e.: not behind the LP tanks or similar), with the umbilical to the TV, & receptacle for the TT's 7-pin at the rear of the box. The Tek RF's inner workings are essentially the same as for the under dash Prodigy P3, but stays with the trailer. Regardless of TV, & can easily pair to multiple TVs & remembers them all - & even pairs once for the multiple different F250s & RAM 2500s that we've rented from Enterprise Truck Rental 2014-present, & the prior several Nissan Pathfinders rented from TRAC in 2013.







It looks like current pricing on the Echo is about 60-70% of the full retail on the Tekonsha RF (same controller innards as the under dash Prodigy P3), but the Tek RF can be found for less on sale many places. Being a newer model, I don't know if the Echo will go on sale for a while yet.



As I said, I'd still prefer the Tek RF for the secure mounting, tactile boost button, & long proven design - but I do think that the Echo is a slick idea - just not great in use with a "blind search" touchscreen controller & questionable mounting of the controller unit in the 7-pin noted above (maybe Curt will offer other options form mounting & a tactile controller unit later).



Cheers!

Tom

///////


Tom,

I drilled a small hole in the top angled plastic piece of the Echo, added a heavy duty zip tie to create a loop, and then use a small bungee to secure it to the hitch receiver. This is my added security if it does come loose. Fortunately I haven’t had it even wiggle loose a tiny bit over thousands of miles.
Prettygood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 11:08 AM   #28
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkatz View Post
I use the tekonsha rf on my BMW X5 and have loved it. I recently put in a lithium battery that is often over 13v and has been as high as 13.5v and I have never had an issue with the rf. I have a battery cut off that I always use when I store the trailer and it helps draw down especially with my inverter that seems to use power even when I don’t have anything connected to it and using it.
I don’t think I would drive with the battery disconnected because if the break away switch was activated, I think the brakes would need the battery power to stop the trailer.
Good point Kevin - I hadn't thought about that issue.

You're correct, unless it's one of the few older trailers that had a separate magnetically or mechanically operated Emergency Brake that popped closed when the breakaway pin was pulled, without need for in-trailer power. But I think that was an older braking system on vintage trailers.

However, bringing an unhitched trailer to a stop is tricky at best - whether on the safety chains or on the loose! And the legally required breakaway switch isn't a great solution, because when the pin is pulled it will immediately go to full brakes & lock up the brakes/wheels on the trailer. That can cause even more problems, including flipping the trailer & possibly the TV (seen that on I-40 in the 1970s helping with owner), or make it more difficult to safely bring both to a stop with trailer wheels lock-up (did that with my Dad's heavy-ish 18' cabin cruiser white knuckle ride when it "jumped the ball").

It would seem that the Trailer makers & AS - as well as those switching to Solar - with large enough Li/etc. Battery Banks that are using more than 12v systems (many hybrid cars, marine & trailer applications etc. are 24v & 48v now) - should have a 12V (10-15v) battery for the trailer lights/brakes/etc. while running, & then isolate the Solar &/or Wind Charging & Storage Bank systems for the reasons you mention, both while stored & when towing.

As you said, I've not heard of the brake controller problems before this with anyone on here, nor our vintage trailer buddies who have them.

So that makes me wonder if it could be a problem with a particular Solar set-up sending too much power into the system maybe a bad inverter etc.?

Last November at our vintage Camp-out we did recently have a gal with a 50's Bambi with Solar + inverter & Li battery bank in her beautiful vintage AS, whose inverter had failed & fried her batteries. I noticed the smoking batteries & got it disconnected right away with the help of our vintage crowd of experts.

Her tiny Bambi was under the 1500 lbs with her vintage Bambi & didn't need to have the brakes going home, but would've been without E-brake power, although one of the vintage experts in our group thought that she had a cable actuated E-brake (which is where I heard of the non-electric E-brake).

Perhaps Terry/Overlander63 also needs to check out how his solar, inverter, batteries, etc. are set-up & its operating parameters, to see why he's putting out more power than the Tekonsha can handle.

My `88 VW Westy has AGM car & batteries (currently upgrading house to LiPo), & the car battery has always put out 13 - 13.7v while running & charging, as have other cars & TVs I've driven (using a 12v Round/Cig Lighter USA Phone Charger which shows current voltage).

So I'm sure that Curt, Tekonsha, etc. have designed their in-dash & remote brake controllers to handle a voltage range of 10-15 or 8-20 or whatever - such that they'll operate when charging to higher than 12v, or if the battery is running low (e.g.: with a bad Alternator, Regulator, ECU, etc.). The operating range is shown on the Tekonsha Specs, but I don't have mine at hand now, IIRC it's 8-18v, but don't quote me.

In any case I still feel that a trailer battery cut-off switch is important to have.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 11:41 AM   #29
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prettygood View Post
Tom,

I drilled a small hole in the top angled plastic piece of the Echo, added a heavy duty zip tie to create a loop, and then use a small bungee to secure it to the hitch receiver. This is my added security if it does come loose. Fortunately I haven’t had it even wiggle loose a tiny bit over thousands of miles.
Thanx PG - that sounds like a pretty good Kluge solution.

Maybe Curt will add a similar safety as a standard feature, with a small cable lock or similar that would also prevent theft, as well as help keep the Echo in the 7-pin if the catch fails.

We all know that those 7-pin connectors' safety catch on their covers are far from perfect!

So I do a similar Bungee "Lasso" around my 7-pin & hook it to the hitch, frame, etc. to prevent it from falling to the pavement & grinding off - hopefully.

With a large TV & relatively light trailer, it's hard to know during daylight that you've lost the 7-pin, because a big TV doesn't rely on the trailer's braking much except in quick or panic braking. At least at night you can see the trailer lights go out.

When our Avion's 7-pin popped out, it was daylight, & I was towing it home to SoCal after buying it in Albuquerque at only 2700-2800 lbs dry/empty, with a F150 4x4 Crew Cab pick-up (5-6000 lbs I guess) in NM/AZ on a July day - & I felt nothing while driving, until I did my walk around check at the 1st AZ Rest stop westbound, & it was lying on the pavement ground down in half! I had no hint it was out, & no idea when it happened nor how long dragging & bouncing along on the pavement.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2020, 12:54 PM   #30
TravelswithCharley
 
2017 22' Sport
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 45
Images: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Mary - I agree with Mike - you were getting ripped off!

The Prodigy is only about $250-350 retail price - about the same as the RF model.

You could have the RF mounted on your AS & not "marry it" to you RR, to keep it with the AS whenever you change the RR for your next TV &/or if you need to use a loaner or rental while the RR is in the shop, etc.

You, a friend, or local trailer/RV shop where you have your wheel bearings & brakes fixed can do it for FAR less than $1400. IIRC even Camping World sells & installs both the Tekonsha in-dash & RF on trailer brake controllers.

If the Echo works well for you - then please report back for others, since it seems to be a mixed bag so far, but not unusual for a new product to have some early bugs to fix in the 1st year or 2 they're out.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
thanks everyone for your advise and input. I ended up going with the Tekonsha RF which I will bolt to the trailer this weekend. I'll update once I'm traveling again.
Marygb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2021, 07:13 PM   #31
1 Rivet Member
 
2021 16' Basecamp
San Jose , California
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
A Question for the Echo Collective:

The Echo just pops into the 7-pin on the TV, with the trailer's 7-pin & umbilical plugged into it & with its weight & drag pulling on the connectors, which are just friction fit plastic, electrical pins & the plastic safety clip which doesn't always work properly to hold it - as shown in their pic below:

So can the Echo owners please report back on how secure this connection is, & any mishaps?

Cheers!
Tom
///////
Tom, I know this thread maybe over by now, but wanted to pass my experience with the Echo controller. From day one, I thought the same thing about the unit being large, and therefore a little iffy in the 7-way plug. The Echo comes with a rubber strap, but I found I lost that the first trip (from the Airstream Dealership to home!), so they seem to be aware of this, but their answer is not enough.
I ended up purchasing velcro straps from Amazon, they work great!
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
But unfortunately, my experience with the Echo controller has been less than desirable. Perhaps it's because the Basecamp 16x is super light, I don't know, but I could never tune the controller to actually work with my setup. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee as a TV by the way. Anytime I was under 35 mph or so, the trailer brakes locked anytime I barely applied any brake pressure. I had all settings set to the minimum, but could not get it to not lock. At the same time, If used the manual brake button on the iPhone, it would barely do anything (and it's not progressive, so you can't apply partial braking of the trailer manually, it's either all or nothing in my experience).
My final solution, I ordered the Prodigy P3 wired controller. Night and Day! Awesome controller, and works like it should. No more jolting from the trailer as I approach a stop light, stop sign, etc.
So, sorry to re-open this thread, but if someone does have good experience with the Curt, the velcro seems to be a good solution. I know that others have had good luck with the Curt Echo, I suppose with larger trailers, it probably works better.

My two cents.
Stephen
stemcc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2021, 10:10 AM   #32
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 22' Sport
Carlsbad , California
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
Tom, I know this thread maybe over by now, but wanted to pass my experience with the Echo controller. From day one, I thought the same thing about the unit being large, and therefore a little iffy in the 7-way plug. The Echo comes with a rubber strap, but I found I lost that the first trip (from the Airstream Dealership to home!), so they seem to be aware of this, but their answer is not enough.

I ended up purchasing velcro straps from Amazon, they work great!

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

But unfortunately, my experience with the Echo controller has been less than desirable. Perhaps it's because the Basecamp 16x is super light, I don't know, but I could never tune the controller to actually work with my setup. I have a Jeep Grand Cherokee as a TV by the way. Anytime I was under 35 mph or so, the trailer brakes locked anytime I barely applied any brake pressure. I had all settings set to the minimum, but could not get it to not lock. At the same time, If used the manual brake button on the iPhone, it would barely do anything (and it's not progressive, so you can't apply partial braking of the trailer manually, it's either all or nothing in my experience).

My final solution, I ordered the Prodigy P3 wired controller. Night and Day! Awesome controller, and works like it should. No more jolting from the trailer as I approach a stop light, stop sign, etc.

So, sorry to re-open this thread, but if someone does have good experience with the Curt, the velcro seems to be a good solution. I know that others have had good luck with the Curt Echo, I suppose with larger trailers, it probably works better.



My two cents.

Stephen


Stephen,

Thanks for sharing. I have the Echo also (2 years now) and have loved the convenience and simplicity of the unit. I’m also experiencing the same lock up behavior on my 22’ Sport, and have the trailer in for service now to fix the brakes.

I called Curt and talked with them about what I was experiencing to see if they had any ideas. Their thought was that it was a mechanical issue with the magnet that drives the brake pad, and not their signal from the unit. In fact, he told me that having too weak a signal (low settings) on the controller could exaggerate the issue since the signal may not provide enough current for the magnet to respond appropriately.

I plan to keep my settings at mid-range (4, 50 or so) and see if the issue comes back. If it does I will replace the controller with something else like you did.

Thanks for sharing the info, it helps confirm that the controller may be playing a part.
Prettygood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2021, 11:07 AM   #33
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Thanx for the feedback Stephen & Prettygood.

It would appear that not only is the big & bulky Echo not well thought out & executed by Curt - when you have to Velcro or duct tape up the unit due to its unwieldy bulk & weight - as well as for the operational problems you both have experienced.

Frankly Curt's response pointing fingers at the trailer brakes & other issues sounds like the typical software & computer/electronics manufacturers' usual pointing fingers at everything & everyone else as the problem - not their unit!

Please report back on whether or not your Airstream shop actually finds anything wrong with your 2 Sport's brakes.

BTW - we looked at a new 2012 AS 22' Sport too, before we decided to go the vintage trailer route.

Both of your trailers are about the same or a bit heavier curb & gross weights, as is our vintage kin 1960 Avion T20 at 2680 lbs dry/empty/base & 3000-3500 lbs as loaded & wet & 21'-6" long. So I'm not "buying" the Curt &/or other claim that it because it's a light trailer - when ours has operated perfectly since July 2012 with the Tekonsha P3 RF remote brake controller mounted on the Avion's a-frame.


If you're looking for an alternative brake controller which you don't have to mount under dash & is far easier to use with the handheld control unit - that reaching for the dash boost button in an emergency stop - then I recommend the Tekonsha RF.

Their RF is essentially a P3 like Stephen got, but mounted on the trailer/a-frame, with an RF connection to the handheld unit that plugs into the TV's 12v/cig lighter round outlet to power it, & can be kept close at hand for emergency use (I keep mine in my lap).

https://www.tekonsha.com/product/902...l-proportional


This is ours mounted high on the steel plate on the A-frame in order to clear the tensioning rods for our Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch, because vintage trailers tend to have shorter A-frames than new ones. Our a-frame is only 30" long - with LP tanks, hitch attachments, etc. taking up space - and the original battery box on Avions was mounted on the outside front wall, where the Hensley hitch adjustment jack towers are now located (battery was moved under the dinette during the 2007-08 resto by the prior owner).




.


We've towed our Avion with both mid-sized Nissan Pathfinders & full sized 1/2 & 3/4 ton pick-ups in both short & long bed crew cab versions (all rented) without any difference in the trailer brake nor RF controller performance, as Curt is trying to claim about their Echo.




.


Ultimately we hope to get a Porsche Cayenne or similar mid-sized SUV as our permanent TV & 3rd car, now that we're retired, but not until after COVID is clear & we can actually use it.


So based on the feedback here, I won't bother with the Echo, and suggest that others should not consider the Curt Echo either, for all of the reasons & feedback here.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2021, 06:52 PM   #34
1 Rivet Member
 
2021 16' Basecamp
San Jose , California
Join Date: Nov 2020
Posts: 14
Tom, first off, that's a really cool looking rig! I wish I had the space/facility to restore a vintage rig, but alas, I don't.

Anyway, Prettygood, I'm really interested to see what happens after the dealer inspects your breaks. I had read on other forums of folks being told the same thing, to check their breaks, but no one seemed to have luck. I don't recall which forums or what rigs they had though.

I do tend to think that if they say the lower settings are more prone to issues, that there is a problem with the Curt for lighter loads. I tend to think a heavier trailer has less or no issues. I say this because when I did have the settings around 5/40- 5/50, it seemed to do better until I was almost to a stop (very low speeds). but if they can't get the voltage right in general, that's an issue.

What I experienced after going to the P3 controller is the same I saw from others in my search as well, which is what pushed me to this solution. I didn't want to trust another wireless controller, but it does sound like the RF unit works exactly the same. Also, I found that my A Frame was also lacking space anyway.

At the same time, the Curt Echo has a lot of good feedback on eTrailer site, so I have to believe that it works in some setups. Just not mine.

A Quick picture of the velcro I used prior to replacing the Curt by the way attached below. I use the Andersen WDH, and Love it by the way (even though I don't need WD, I like the sway control).
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20201122_230404070_iOS.jpg
Views:	96
Size:	592.1 KB
ID:	388524  
stemcc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2021, 09:07 PM   #35
3 Rivet Member
 
kevinkatz's Avatar
 
1965 17' Caravel
Curtis Wright
San Marcos , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 231
Images: 38
Send a message via AIM to kevinkatz
my final decision

Since i started the thread i feel that i should tell yall what i decided upon.
I landed up buying the new tekonsha wireless unit that evidently now uses bluetooth. Tekonsha told me that it would mate seamlessly with my BMW X5 but alas it didnt, just like my old one. However when i hooked it up to my son's Tundra it immediately synched and then did perfectly when the handhold unit was transferred to the BMW.
I wanted the ability to grab the hand unit and activate the brakes if i was swaying or losing control of the trailer. That is easy with the Tekonsha. I understand it is possible, on your phone, with the Echo but there is no way i can start activating my phone and opening the app when i am in crisis mode. That just seems totally impractical to me. If that isnt a concern for someone then the echo seems just fine.
Got my 1949 Curtis Wright on the road this week and the Tekonsha operated well.
As an aside i put in the Tuson anti sway which uses a gyroscope to monitor your sway, and then activates left or right brakes to mitigate sway. Cool !
kevinkatz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2021, 09:12 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
sheriff1's Avatar
 
2012 27' FB Eddie Bauer
Sparks , Nevada
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
Tom, first off, that's a really cool looking rig! I wish I had the space/facility to restore a vintage rig, but alas, I don't.



Anyway, Prettygood, I'm really interested to see what happens after the dealer inspects your breaks. I had read on other forums of folks being told the same thing, to check their breaks, but no one seemed to have luck. I don't recall which forums or what rigs they had though.



I do tend to think that if they say the lower settings are more prone to issues, that there is a problem with the Curt for lighter loads. I tend to think a heavier trailer has less or no issues. I say this because when I did have the settings around 5/40- 5/50, it seemed to do better until I was almost to a stop (very low speeds). but if they can't get the voltage right in general, that's an issue.



What I experienced after going to the P3 controller is the same I saw from others in my search as well, which is what pushed me to this solution. I didn't want to trust another wireless controller, but it does sound like the RF unit works exactly the same. Also, I found that my A Frame was also lacking space anyway.



At the same time, the Curt Echo has a lot of good feedback on eTrailer site, so I have to believe that it works in some setups. Just not mine.



A Quick picture of the velcro I used prior to replacing the Curt by the way attached below. I use the Andersen WDH, and Love it by the way (even though I don't need WD, I like the sway control).


Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_5311.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	192.3 KB
ID:	388530
Keep an eye on that hitch for this failure.
sheriff1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 11:49 AM   #37
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
Tom, first off, that's a really cool looking rig! I wish I had the space/facility to restore a vintage rig, but alas, I don't.
Thanx, but we bought it already restored from the prior owners, although there's always ongoing maintenance to do on any trailer.

However, space is not here either with our 1921 Craftsman Bungalow home - since we live on a standard 50x150 lot (including the 150' runs into the street centerline) - and then we only have an 8' wide driveway with only 15"-18" clear on each side of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
I do tend to think that if they say the lower settings are more prone to issues, that there is a problem with the Curt for lighter loads. I tend to think a heavier trailer has less or no issues. I say this because when I did have the settings around 5/40- 5/50, it seemed to do better until I was almost to a stop (very low speeds). but if they can't get the voltage right in general, that's an issue.
The Tekonsha P3 & RF tend to be recommended boost settings in the mid-range 6.0-6.2, and ours works fine at that setting - & that setting is determined by doing some test runs & braking to get the trailer brakes not to lock-up - per Tekonsha's set-up instructions.

So I would think that the Echo should probably likewise be set up to the maximum setting that won't lock up the trailer brakes - but you & others seem to be saying that the Echo locks up the brakes under normal conditions, and worse at the slow speed braking. That sounds to me to be a serious brake controller issue.

I also agree that trying to use your cell phone as the brake control unit would be a problem in emergency situations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
Also, I found that my A Frame was also lacking space anyway.
For you & others with a similar A-frame situation -
When I blow up your photo, it looks to me that you could mount the Tekonsha RF unit on the A-frame rail behind the wide part of your LP tanks shield & just behind your WD/AS chain bracket - either directly on the rail or lifted above by using a plate like I used on our A-frame. Readers can look at your post & my prior post to see what I mean, so I won't repeat the pix again here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stemcc View Post
A Quick picture of the velcro I used prior to replacing the Curt by the way attached below. I use the Andersen WDH, and Love it by the way (even though I don't need WD, I like the sway control).
My comment on Curt's Echo design flaws meant that a flat & more compact box that was lighter, which would've been more stable - rather than the long tube design used - and that Curt should have provided more secure attachment devices, than simply plugging it into the 7-pin receptacle.

We all know that the 7-pin TV connection is problematic at best, must be regularly checked close up by hand at every stop, and usually also "helped" with Velcro or zip ties to help support the 7-pin cable's weight.

I was reminded of that fact on my very first trip bringing our Avion home from Albuquerque where we bought it, and it fell out during the first leg from ABQ to the AZ border, ground the plug in half dragging along the pavement for "xx?" miles, forcing me to hunt for and repair the 7-pun plug on the road.

Yes it had appropriate slack, yes , & yes it was triple checked before leaving the ABQ trailer shop where I had the wheel bearings replaced, brakes serviced & an overall safety check - by me & 2 techs.

Ergo my serious misgivings about hanging either the Curt Echo or Curt's TV adapter off the 7-pin in addition to a heavy cable - without some serious additional bracing.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 12:48 PM   #38
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinkatz View Post
Since i started the thread i feel that i should tell yall what i decided upon.
I landed up buying the new tekonsha wireless unit that evidently now uses bluetooth. Tekonsha told me that it would mate seamlessly with my BMW X5 but alas it didnt, just like my old one. However when i hooked it up to my son's Tundra it immediately synched and then did perfectly when the handhold unit was transferred to the BMW.
I wanted the ability to grab the hand unit and activate the brakes if i was swaying or losing control of the trailer. That is easy with the Tekonsha. I understand it is possible, on your phone, with the Echo but there is no way i can start activating my phone and opening the app when i am in crisis mode. That just seems totally impractical to me. If that isnt a concern for someone then the echo seems just fine.
Got my 1949 Curtis Wright on the road this week and the Tekonsha operated well.
As an aside i put in the Tuson anti sway which uses a gyroscope to monitor your sway, and then activates left or right brakes to mitigate sway. Cool !
Kevin,

I absolutely agree on the difficulties of using the Echo on the phone while dealing with an emergency maneuver &/or stop.



How cool Kevin - a `49 Curtis Wright!

We've regularly camped next to a couple of vintage trailer buddies with the Curtis at the CA Vintage Rallies.

You may want to contact these folks for their Curtis Wright Registry:
https://tincantourists.com/wiki/curtis-wright/
.

As a longtime 1985 BMW E30 325e original owner & sometimes BMW-CCA member - I have to say that the Curtis behind your X5 must be a classy juxtaposition of cool car/trailer eras!

We're hoping for the same effect whenever we can get ourselves a Cayenne.
.

You may need the Tow Ready 7-pin adapter for the Euro & other TVs with light out programs to bypass that issue. It has helped some Euro TV owners, but not others.

https://www.etrailer.com/Wiring/Tow-Ready/20142.html
> check pricing around for this unit

I've had to use it on the rented 2017> redesigned Ford F250s to even get our trailer brake lights & the RF to work properly - when they changed something in the F250's tow ECUs/Programming/Coding. After trying 5 different F250s that year with all not working the running lights (all incandescent) & the Ford dealers without a clue why - when they worked perfectly plugged into another pre-2016 F250 or any other TV - including with a 4-pin adapter to our 1988 VW Vanagon CamperGL Westfalia. So I had to have Enterprise Truck Rental switch us to the RAM2500s, which has no such problem.
.

Also - I did not have any issue with pairing our Tekonsha RF to the 2013 Nissan Pathfinders which we were renting back then (5x per year, different Pathfinders each time), which is not a Euro SUV, but it is also not a Big 3 USA TV. Probably why your son's Taco worked for you.

So I've not experienced the problem you & some others mentioned at the other Cayenne/Touareg/Q7 Topic on here (link below) - which includes BMW, MBZ, Asian & other import SUVs/TVs.

https://www.airforums.com/forums/f46...rs-134917.html
> this topic may be helpful to you with your BMW X5

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2021, 04:22 PM   #39
4 Rivet Member
 
2019 22' Sport
Carlsbad , California
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom_T View Post
Thanx, but we bought it already restored from the prior owners, although there's always ongoing maintenance to do on any trailer.



However, space is not here either with our 1921 Craftsman Bungalow home - since we live on a standard 50x150 lot (including the 150' runs into the street centerline) - and then we only have an 8' wide driveway with only 15"-18" clear on each side of it.









The Tekonsha P3 & RF tend to be recommended boost settings in the mid-range 6.0-6.2, and ours works fine at that setting - & that setting is determined by doing some test runs & braking to get the trailer brakes not to lock-up - per Tekonsha's set-up instructions.



So I would think that the Echo should probably likewise be set up to the maximum setting that won't lock up the trailer brakes - but you & others seem to be saying that the Echo locks up the brakes under normal conditions, and worse at the slow speed braking. That sounds to me to be a serious brake controller issue.



I also agree that trying to use your cell phone as the brake control unit would be a problem in emergency situations.









For you & others with a similar A-frame situation -

When I blow up your photo, it looks to me that you could mount the Tekonsha RF unit on the A-frame rail behind the wide part of your LP tanks shield & just behind your WD/AS chain bracket - either directly on the rail or lifted above by using a plate like I used on our A-frame. Readers can look at your post & my prior post to see what I mean, so I won't repeat the pix again here.









My comment on Curt's Echo design flaws meant that a flat & more compact box that was lighter, which would've been more stable - rather than the long tube design used - and that Curt should have provided more secure attachment devices, than simply plugging it into the 7-pin receptacle.



We all know that the 7-pin TV connection is problematic at best, must be regularly checked close up by hand at every stop, and usually also "helped" with Velcro or zip ties to help support the 7-pin cable's weight.



I was reminded of that fact on my very first trip bringing our Avion home from Albuquerque where we bought it, and it fell out during the first leg from ABQ to the AZ border, ground the plug in half dragging along the pavement for "xx?" miles, forcing me to hunt for and repair the 7-pun plug on the road.



Yes it had appropriate slack, yes , & yes it was triple checked before leaving the ABQ trailer shop where I had the wheel bearings replaced, brakes serviced & an overall safety check - by me & 2 techs.



Ergo my serious misgivings about hanging either the Curt Echo or Curt's TV adapter off the 7-pin in addition to a heavy cable - without some serious additional bracing.



Cheers!

Tom

///////


This greatly overstates my experience with the Echo over the last two years of use. I have found it to be an excellent choice, with the only real potential issue being low-speed braking.

There have been no concerns with the shape or how it connects, nor has it ever failed to work properly at normal driving speeds.

As for the manual braking: I keep my phone plugged in with that screen on next to the shift lever. This makes the brake button always available and closer to my hand than it would be under the dash.

Since the settings are adjustable from the app, and new features can be deployed over the air (unlike the Tekonsha), I will engage with Curt to address the low speed braking concerns with an update. I’m sure it is possible, they just need to know that the issue may not be isolated and deserves attention.
Prettygood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2021, 03:29 PM   #40
Tom T
 
Tom_T's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Vintage Kin Owner
Orange , California
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prettygood View Post
Since the settings are adjustable from the app, and new features can be deployed over the air (unlike the Tekonsha), ....
That is incorrect.

In fact the Tekonsha RF settings are adjustable from the handset using the wheel on its side, and can be raised or lowered at any time in travel or sitting - including while using the boost button.

I was stating my own concerns, and those of others posting on here, with the Echo in my prior post - not trying to restate yours.

We'd love to hear if your &/or other's trailer shops actually found or find problems with the trailer brakes - versus the Echo.

Cheers!
Tom
///////
__________________
Tom T
Orange CA
1960 Avion T20, #2 made, Hensley Cub, TV tbd- looking for 08-22 Cayenne S, EH, etc
1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia CamperGL (Orig Owner) + 1970 Eriba Puck
Tom_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CURT ECHO Wireless Brake Controller Experience? PirateChris Sprinter and B-van Forum 2 09-09-2020 04:02 PM
Touareg and Curt Echo brake controller? lstyles Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 6 08-13-2020 04:20 PM
Tekonsha Prodigy wireless brake controller teal Brakes & Brake Controllers 0 01-01-2020 02:19 PM
Tekonsha prodigy P3 brake controller 90195 Troutboy Airstream Classifieds 0 01-14-2018 07:20 AM
Prodigy Brake Controller V's Older Tekonsha jbailey01 Towing, Tow Vehicles & Hitches 8 01-31-2013 08:35 AM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:41 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.