One Hot Brake

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

So after 25,000 miles we took the trailer in to have the brakes inspected.
After the inspection the dealer said that they were at 80% and looked good. The dealer cleaned and adjusted the brakes.

While driving home it seemed that there was a lot of drag and by the time we got home after about 30 miles there was a lot of squeaking noise.

Measuring the temperature of the drums revealed three drums at 90F and one was at 130F.

So the question is: What do I do now?

Thanks for your help.

..back the brake off

[Fungus]

Yes. Your road kit is unlikely to include the 1 7/16 socket and snap ring tool. Until now.

I removed the guts from a grinding wheel last week while camping at a state park south of Atlanta. A fellow camper loaned me the tools I didn’t already have (said socket and snap ring tool). He insisted. Thanks Victor. Another camper also had the right tools but I finished before he realized what was going on. I bought the tools from Napa on our way out to add to my road kit.

I had a little trouble with the socket slipping which made me wonder if the 1 7/16 should be a 36 mm socket. Fortunately, it should have been torqued to 145 to 155 ft-lbs, the same as the lug nuts on my truck. It came off with a bit of finagling.

A Dexter plant was 20 minutes away in Monticello but they don’t sell to the public. Wouldn’t even talk about it. Hence the previously mentioned Lippert I bought at the Atlanta AS dealership.

DW wants me to carry a left and a right assembly now.

Good skill to have...yes! I’m lazy. And because it’s often easier to be your own mechanic than hassle with warranty or dealer service that is hundreds of miles, 20 frustrating phone calls, and days, weeks, or months away. Just roll up your sleeves and do the work. Help is literally at your fingertips (or at a nearby campsite).

One other useful tool for the installation comes to mind...heat shrink gun. But I’m not carrying mine on the road. Maybe there are other ways to protect the wire connections.

[renderit]

Carry a torch type $25 butane cigar lighter. It will shrink (without blackening) most heat shrink. It will fit in your glove compartment (or pocket). A great item to have in your 'go bag'. You can find them much cheaper but most are so-so and not refillable.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

I have a 2013 trailer and recently replaced all four brake assemblies and drums with Never Lube Bearings. At 50,000 miles one bearing was headed out and another was thinking about it.

Not a hard job. Got all the parts at Etrailer. The only special tool needed is a 42mm socket and long breaker bar. Otherwise normal tools including a torque wrench. Did all four brake assemblies with new hubs/drums in my driveway in about 3 hours.

How did you replace the bearings?

[mythbuster88]

So before starting this job I am looking for specific part numbers.
Brake assemblies are around but the nev-r-lube bearings are elusive.

I have Dexter 410980-11 4500 lb axles.
One brake drum is running hot compared to the others. 170F and 90F respectively.

I would like to just replace everything, drum with bearings, and the brake assembly.
However maybe bearings can be removed and replaced, I don't know.

So if anyone has specific part numbers for 4500 lb axles that would be a big help.

There is a thread about discontinued nev-r-lube bearings. This thread was never resolved.

I have not called anybody, i.e., E trailer, Dexter etc, and will also try that tomorrow.

Thanks.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by tjdonahoe

..back the brake off

We did back it off and it still runs hot.

[HRTKD]

Not much I can add to the thread, since I have different Dexter axles. I recently replaced the complete brake assembly, drum, bearings and seal on both axles. Springs and bearings were upgraded to 6K. Bushings were replaced.

Most of my parts came from my local trailer store, which had better prices than what I could find online. I ordered a part from eTrailer.com and even though it was in stock, it wasn't going to ship for two weeks after I ordered it. A local auto parts store had it, so the eTrailer order was cancelled. The local trailer store couldn't get the Timken bearings, but could get the cheap chinese bearings. Inventory issues that they blamed on Covid. I ordered the Timken bearings from Amazon instead.

For the hot runner, is it possible that the bearing nut is too tight? My experience with many mechanics is that they think they know better than the torque wrench. Or, they're simply too lazy to use a torque wrench. My brother is one of those. I used a digital torque wrench on all the nuts for this project. I know they're right.

I have one position that runs a bit hotter than the other three. Since it's all new brakes, drums and bearings, I'm hoping it's just the break-in period.

[Kay0]

I had a similar problem with uneven temperature readings measured by internal TPMS. The Service manager at Airstream Santa Barbara contacted Dexter for heat built up tolerances. I hope it helps resolve the nagging feeling something is wrong. Your anxiety over temperature readings and the brake system falls under TMI (Too Much Information) and inadequate resources to resolve. I hope this helps.
attached: Normal operating Temperatures for Dexter Axte components and
Assemblies

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by Kay0

I had a similar problem with uneven temperature readings measured by internal TPMS. The Service manager at Airstream Santa Barbara contacted Dexter for heat built up tolerances. I hope it helps resolve the nagging feeling something is wrong. Your anxiety over temperature readings and the brake system falls under TMI (Too Much Information) and inadequate resources to resolve. I hope this helps.
attached: Normal operating Temperatures for Dexter Axte components and
Assemblies

That's good information from Dexter. Hopefully it is still relevant after 23 years.

Still, one brake that is significantly higher in temperature than the other brake(s) is, in my opinion, cause for concern. The question is how much difference is acceptable. When I have one tire that is 10 PSI higher than the other tires, I start to look for a reason. Normally, my tires are within 4 PSI of each other, when taking exposure to sun into account.

PSI isn't always a good indicator of a problem or absence of a problem. On a recent trip from CO to AZ through Las Vegas, I had two trailer tires fail at the same time. I detected a vibration that didn't go away when I changed lanes. All four tires were running within the usual 4 PSI of each other. I stopped at the next rest area and found one tire with chunks out of it and another tire with the tread separating. They were on different axles.

[uncle_bob]

Hi

Any local shop that works on trucks will have a *lot* of experience with the brakes and hubs on a typical AS trailer. They may or may not need a bit of coaching on how to properly jack them up when pulling a wheel. Assuming they will listen to the (brief) presentation on jack points, there is no reason to go very far for brake work.

Oddly enough brakes are another item that has it's own warranty. They are not covered under the normal Airstream 3 year deal. Had I realized this was the case, I probably could have saved a bit of time .....

Bob

[mythbuster88]

So I replaced the hot running self-adjusting brake assembly with a regular brake assembly. They did not have any self adjusters at the local trailer store. The drum was so tight I had to back off the adjuster a lot to get the drum off.

We will take the thing out for a test drive.

[Fungus]

Originally Posted by Jim J

Did you have any trouble removing the spindle nut?

I found it impossible to remove the spindle nut on my never lube hubs so ended up taking it to a Dexter dealer.

My 6 pt socket would slip off the narrow nut as I applied pressure to the breaker bar. The dealer used an impact driver which allowed him to apply axial force to the nut and keep the socket in line with the nut.

I finally got around to replacing the left rear brake assembly today. The socket wouldn’t stay on the nut as you described. I took a short piece of 2x4 I had laying around and jammed it under the wrench at the socket. Worked perfectly to keep the socket on that skinny nut.

Another interesting find…Dexter says to torque the brake assemblies to between 25 and 50 ft. Lbs. The old ones seemed to have been torqued to barely 25 lbs. I torqued the new ones to 40 ft. lbs.

So the rear axle has new Lippert brake assemblies. I ordered Dexter assemblies for the front axle. The American-made Dexters seem nearly identical to the Chinese-made Lipperts except that the hardware has more play than the Lipperts. Dexters are more than twice the price of the Lipperts.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by Fungus

Can’t you remove the guts yourself (snap ring tool, breaker bar, torque wrench, 1 7/16 socket, needle nose pliers) then carefully drive to where you can replace the assembly yourself or have someone else do it? Assuming that the OP issue is the brake.

Second question: if Dexters often fail, is Lippert a better option? Atlanta Airstream dealer said the Lippert 12” fits my 2017 Intl plug-and-play. They didn’t have the Dexter assembly in stock. Of course they charged me more than twice the Amazon price. Advantage of the Lippert is that the assembly comes preloaded on the backplate (??). I bought the Lippert but haven’t installed it yet.

So I took your challenge, ordered tools, and replaced the offending brake assembly with a Dexter non self adjuster.

After a test drive today the four brakes now all measure the same temperature. I now have three self adjusters and one normal brake.

Later I plan on changing the remaining three self adjusters to standard brakes.

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by HRTKD

I have one position that runs a bit hotter than the other three. Since it's all new brakes, drums and bearings, I'm hoping it's just the break-in period.

Quick follow up on my situation. The brakes and bearings appear to be OK. The tire that was hot was not balanced. There were no balancing weights at all. When I had it balanced, it required quite a bit of weight and the tire shop said the steel/chrome wheel was bent. I could see the problem. A dial caliper would have provided a more quantitative measure for how bad it was. The tire shop said it probably would be OK, but not ideal.

I swapped the tire over to one of my spare wheels, along with the TPMS sensor.

I'll know in a few days if that change fixed the hot position.

[carl2591]

could it be that the one brake was adjusted a bit to tight from the get go?? the adjusters usually only work when the shoes have worn enough to cause the adjuster to move to next click.. from what i have seen and read they are sota fool proof.. that would be the difference.. I have not self adjusters thus far but the will be changing the coming next year when we replace axles, brakes and reuse the bearing repacking them with new high temp synthetic grease.


PS can you not remove the self adjuster bar on brakes to save the money..

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

So I took your challenge, ordered tools, and replaced the offending brake assembly with a Dexter non self adjuster.

After a test drive today the four brakes now all measure the same temperature. I now have three self adjusters and one normal brake.

Later I plan on changing the remaining three self adjusters to standard brakes.

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by HRTKD

Quick follow up on my situation. The brakes and bearings appear to be OK. The tire that was hot was not balanced. There were no balancing weights at all. When I had it balanced, it required quite a bit of weight and the tire shop said the steel/chrome wheel was bent. I could see the problem. A dial caliper would have provided a more quantitative measure for how bad it was. The tire shop said it probably would be OK, but not ideal.

I swapped the tire over to one of my spare wheels, along with the TPMS sensor.

I'll know in a few days if that change fixed the hot position.

With the change made above, the difference in PSI is much less. Not zero, but small enough that I'm good with it. Checking the hub temp with my hand, the temps were all warm at best with no noticeable difference. So I don't think my issue is related to brakes or bearings.

[mythbuster88]

Originally Posted by carl2591

could it be that the one brake was adjusted a bit to tight from the get go?? the adjusters usually only work when the shoes have worn enough to cause the adjuster to move to next click.. from what i have seen and read they are sota fool proof.. that would be the difference.. I have not self adjusters thus far but the will be changing the coming next year when we replace axles, brakes and reuse the bearing repacking them with new high temp synthetic grease.


PS can you not remove the self adjuster bar on brakes to save the money..

The hot brake had a lot of drag and was 100F hotter than the other three. After adjusting the hot brake it would just go back to its original state with a lot of drag and run hot.

For new axle job why not go with disk brakes?

[HRTKD]

Originally Posted by mythbuster88

The hot brake had a lot of drag and was 100F hotter than the other three. After adjusting the hot brake it would just go back to its original state with a lot of drag and run hot.

For new axle job why not go with disk brakes?

Crazy idea, but is it possible that the wrong type (left/right) was installed in that position?

I considered disk brakes when I was putting together my parts list. It was going to cost around $1000 more and the routing of the metal brake lines was questionable on my trailer. Disk brakes would have been a great upgrade for sure. But the cost, timeframe and install issues were enough to keep me using electric drum brakes.

[GCinSC2]

Myth buster

The backing plates have different bolt patterns fitting L or R only and will not match holes to axle.

Gary

[mythbuster88]

In the end I was surprised how easy it was to change them.

And the new brake assembly was $100 and made in Texas!

I just tossed the old ones in the trash rather than try and figure it out.