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Old 01-21-2020, 08:24 PM   #1
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Literally a Whoa! or WOW! moment.

GM announces eBoost Trailer Brake Concept

40 ft better stopping distance, works with any Tow Vehicle. This could be a game changer.

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/...1-braking.html
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:36 PM   #2
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Literally a Whoa! or WOW! moment.

Sounds like disc brakes, good tires with software-controlled antilock-lock braking module in the the trailer.

Now we wait for the trailer manufacturers to adopt the control system they need to install. Good idea for the higher end market like airstream, with the ability for GM to license the software/hardware module.
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Old 01-21-2020, 09:52 PM   #3
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Or an oh crap another sensor to go bad and cost me big bucks to fix later in life...or Oh boy another sensor to go wrong and we can all bitch on this forum?
Just got a new vehicle and I am totally concerned about life expectancy of all these sensors on the new one as I drive my vehicles to 200,000 plus.
Not at all a benefit for my lifestyle, I don't trade every two years - I drive it to tears I guess. Maybe I am stupid and should want a life always paying vehicle payments.
Or I am old and do not understand what I should want to be buying in a vehicle anymore?
Old person rant done - thank you for listening.
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Old 01-22-2020, 10:04 AM   #4
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Understand

I’ve come from old school ign points drum brakes and zero computer sensors but I also believe in technology and taught from 1968. I remember my shop teacher saying then electronic ignitions will never make it and disc brakes will never work. Sensors And computers last and if they fail the brakes will revert to old school to get it home.

Here is a though? Hmmm current traffic like (Atlanta Ga ) is not traveling at an old school pace. Their cars can maneuver stop in a emergency quicker than us towing We have tow vehicles with modern abs ,stability control and are hooked up to a rig with nothing but drum electric brakes. GM all they are saying is let’s the trailer stop with the same technology as the trucks. Just saying.

Drum brakes are fine but I would like ABS and Stability control in a panic stop. With that system many roll overs could have been prevented. I did not want to get into a love it or hate it post just thought some might like the technology.

You are not old you are growing old gracefully like most of us.

QUOTE=bweybright;2325589]Or an oh crap another sensor to go bad and cost me big bucks to fix later in life...or Oh boy another sensor to go wrong and we can all bitch on this forum?
Just got a new vehicle and I am totally concerned about life expectancy of all these sensors on the new one as I drive my vehicles to 200,000 plus.
Not at all a benefit for my lifestyle, I don't trade every two years - I drive it to tears I guess. Maybe I am stupid and should want a life always paying vehicle payments.
Or I am old and do not understand what I should want to be buying in a vehicle anymore?
Old person rant done - thank you for listening.[/QUOTE]
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Old 01-22-2020, 11:16 AM   #5
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The major change would be the addition of disc brakes. I put them on my Classic 30 Slideout and went from scary to wow stops. My disc brakes provide at least twice the stopping power of my original drums.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f439...ss-177345.html

Anti-lock would be a nice feature, but expensive and complex. I'm satisfied with the performance without it.

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Old 02-04-2020, 05:02 PM   #6
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Electric Brakes ABS System for traditional drum brakes is currently in final testing and should be available this summer. This system can be installed by the DIY trailer owner and will also shorten stopping distances and prevent tire flat spots. Various "user interface" support products are in prototype phase and thus some flexibility exists relative to their functionality. Although system supports numerous diagnostics to accurately identify faults of wiring, sensors, sensor adjustment, brake magnets and so on, a minimum of three levels of user interfaces will be available as we believe in the "Get what you pay for but buy only what you need." So any requirements you might have or any questions you may have relative to operation I will gladly answer "most" of them. Since we have in depth knowledge of trailer braking,ABS and sway control systems we would truly appreciate any "requirements" you might have that could improve the owner experience.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:09 PM   #7
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Drum brakes are fine but I would like ABS and Stability control in a panic stop. With that system many roll overs could have been prevented. I did not want to get into a love it or hate it post just thought some might like the technology.
Really, drum brakes are NOT fine. Probably 90% of the improvement in the GM system comes from the upgrade to hydraulic disks... Disks are already better at delivering heavy braking force with less tendency to lock, plus resistance to fading, and continually self-adjusting. The hydraulic part of it avoids lots of the unequal braking force from iffy adjusters, differing connection quality and/or resistance in the wires, different effectiveness of various magnets, etc.
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Old 02-04-2020, 06:23 PM   #8
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Literally a Whoa! or WOW! moment.

Any aftermarket electric drum brake controller should have a separate interface (like a Bluetooth connected smartphone app) to “tune and diagnose” the system.

The actual operating controls should be a hard-mountable controller with a minimal LED (dimmable) display and a manual lever for driver use, in my opinion. The fancy bits can be on an app.

Yes, I’d strongly consider buying one, even if i needed to rewire stuff on the Airstream or tow vehicle a bit or a lot to use it. Changing out the standard umbilical should be avoided if possible.

I’d imagine an RF link possibly with battery power from either the Airstream batteries or the umbilical (or both for redundancy).

Consider also that Airstreams can have two to six brake assemblies.

Would this use wheel-mounted sensors for anti-skid as well? That could be interesting to implement.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:10 AM   #9
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I’m all for good brakes and like Al my Classic has disc brakes.

What I didn’t see in text or the video was the mods to the trailer? Something got upgrades right?

Specific details about mods? From GM.



Let’s investigate this



First look by me so no details what’s involved.
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Old 02-05-2020, 07:10 AM   #10
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Old 02-05-2020, 09:08 AM   #11
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Neat idea. And at the same time kind of humourous coming from a manufacturer that lagged in its ability for the integrated brake controller to work with EoH.

Only real concern is that this turns into a standard for the trailer and not a bazillion different flavors of the idea.

Also, use caution when quoting specific measurements from a manufacturer while the product is in vaporware stage. Just say-in
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Old 02-07-2020, 08:06 AM   #12
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rmkrum: An "optional" Bluetooth" module would plug into our Trailer CAN (TCAN) network and could then talk to a Bluetooth device. Since I never lie to anyone we already have the previously stated technologies but we currently don't do phone apps but would provide interface information to anyone who wanted to create such a app. A TCAN to Bluetooth module currently communicates to another simple Bluetooth module in the vehicle. I personally believe an "open network" on the trailer would be best for all vendors involved as sharing of available information between devices would improve control as well as provide the best customer experience. I offered the protocols and such to RVIA but nothing happened. I was the primary architect of DeviceNet supported by over a thousand vendors by the "Open DeviceNet Vendors Association". Trailers seem to be trending towards J1939 where I believe a trailer is a home that happens to be on wheels and is not a vehicle, where a J1939 protocols could work, but not optimal for these applications. Being Chairman of the System SIG for the first 9 years of ODVA and Technical Review Board representative from Eaton as well, the trailer industry needs a similar organization including a conformance test lab. Sorry for the soap box but to prevent future chaos, referenced by JayTheCPA, there is no need to go through the pain of incompatible system integration that will occur otherwise.

Relative to user interface you are right on the head, where a small TFT display device, similar to what you describe will be the first stand alone offering, except for the standard red/yellow/green flashing LED module.

EABS Controller connects to blue wire, battery power and ground. One wire from module to each brake for independent brake control for anti-lock braking. A two wire cable to each sensor in each wheel. LED flash module requires 3 wires OR TCAN network, if used, requires 5 wire cable (CAN_High,CAN_Low,Power, Gnd, Other).

JayTheCPA: Tough crowd. I know there will exist at least two Electronic Anti-Lock Braking Systems, ours and the Bosch system, where hopefully there will be more. I believe you will see an evolution where "eventually" systems will integrate with the tow vehicle. We have not yet been successful in getting the data we want from the tow vehicle and may unfortunately have to acquire it through the OBDII connector like other products and then turn the blue wire into a network (again) to talk to the trailer. Here again we would be willing to license our patent pending blue wire interface to RVIA as it could be the ONLY open interface that would work with existing tow vehicles. If others don't want to do this, then ya, different flavors. The "new trailer connector" is still not is still not available (to my knowledge) and would only be on new vehicles anyway.

In my opinion, we will NOT do "control" over Bluetooth or other RF but would do configuration / monitoring/diagnostics over Bluetooth (do it today). Thus the vehicle to trailer control choice "today" is either blue wire network or separate TCAN cable (do this today) from driver's seat to trailer through separate connector at trailer. As end users, what do you want to see?
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:05 AM   #13
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Literally a Whoa! or WOW! moment.

Tough crowd-i think you woke up the engineering types that just happen to own Airstream trailers...

For an easy retrofit, I’d prefer a separate TCAN cable. I’d leave the standard umbilical and brake controller wiring as is for compatibility with other trailers. I won’t always be pulling an Airstream

I plan to add an additional 14-position EZConnector (magnetic locking connector) umbilical for other gadgets I’m working on and would prefer to route TCAN control signals through that umbilical if possible. I have at least 5 spare wires available. It’s NOT shielded wire or Coaxial cable but makes a very solid connection. For others, a separate umbilical, probably a curly cord type makes sense.

Another stray thought: how would this system interface with and respond to break-away switch activation? I agree it’s rarely used, but it’s probably not going away anytime soon. I assume the module controlling the brakes would draw power from the batteries in the trailer which implies the tow vehicle charge line also needs to be charging the trailer batteries.

Thoughts?
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:27 AM   #14
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For now I just drive slower and leave lots of room in front
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Old 02-07-2020, 09:32 AM   #15
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For now I just drive slower and leave lots of room in front
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:05 AM   #16
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Bluetooth module ... could then talk to a Bluetooth device.

No dog in this fight, and I certainly don't understand the technology. But I would like to to point out that my bluetooth never, ever, ever in a million years spontaneously disconnects. I mean never.



So I'd be particularly confident that by BT brake controller would not every lose connection when I'm on a long downward grade being battered by passing cars and pushed by my AS. I mean, I'm really, really confident.



(Sorry to be a tough audience. Factz iz factz.)
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:19 AM   #17
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No dog in this fight, and I certainly don't understand the technology. But I would like to to point out that my bluetooth never, ever, ever in a million years spontaneously disconnects. I mean never.



So I'd be particularly confident that by BT brake controller would not every lose connection when I'm on a long downward grade being battered by passing cars and pushed by my AS. I mean, I'm really, really confident.



(Sorry to be a tough audience. Factz iz factz.)
Not everyone understands sarcasm without tone-of-voice, but I'd also point out that if you read his entire post you'll see that he's writing about using BT for configuration, not braking control.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:28 AM   #18
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For now I just drive slower and leave lots of room in front
Me too, I'm still used to it.

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Old 02-09-2020, 02:02 AM   #19
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Literally a Whoa! or WOW! moment.

I remember when ABS was introduced by GM in the 1991 Chevrolet. At In-Service Training that year we were shown the difference between the 1990 & 1991 models (9C1) out on the drive course. The ‘91 stopped about a car-length shorter that the ‘90.

If I had my way, all this safety equipment would be standard on all vehicles, to include RV’s. It’s kinda like insurance, you never want to use it but it’s nice to have it if you really need it.

I do believe that all safety equipment should be compatible between makes of vehicles though. I’m normally not a “big government” kinda guy but cars wouldn’t have safety glass or seatbelts if it was up to the automobile manufacturers (like Mexican vehicles back in the day, which couldn’t even be licensed in the US due to their shortcomings).
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Old 02-10-2020, 07:14 AM   #20
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rmkrum: Break away switch has no wiring changes. As usual it applies trailer battery voltage to blue wire. If you connected a scope up to blue wire is the USA, except for one foreign brake controller, 300Hz pulses where no US brake controller I know of goes to 100% duty cycle as all have a short off duration which varies with scale setting. We actually allow add code to allow EABS operation during a break away event, which defaults as "no EABS during break away" but can be set to do EABS during break away.

Relative to cable type we specify using a shielded version of J1939 (automotive CAN standard) cable although unshielded will generally work fine. It is used to prevent (as best a shield can) other noise sources from being applied to the CAN_High and CAN_Low signal wires. You make an interesting point where I will need to look into the availability of highly flexible CAN cable. Those doing testing today run a separate CAN cable through separate connectors, which is my personal preference as well.

Relative to wiring, sealed connector pairs are costly, although "generally" more reliable to very low cost butt splices. A butt splice, done properly, is very reliable. The wiring harness from the EABS module could do either, or have both available. For those DIY individuals, what would be your preference; lowest cost or ease of installation at a higher cost? Sorry, I can't give numbers right now and not certain if this forum even allows me to do so.
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