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11-18-2014, 02:32 PM
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#21
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Rivet Monster
1975 31' Sovereign
1980 31' Excella II
Sprung Leak
, North Carolina
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 7,172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Morgan
Really old thread, but really there isn't any issue when switching a vehicle from positive to negative ground.
Gauges don't care, starter doesn't care, most other electric motors don't care, lights don't care...
Therefore the easiest solution is to convert the vehicle to negative ground and 12volts at the same time.
Going to 12 volts isn't a challenge either, just a few more simple fixes.
1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
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Yes and no... I switched several British Sports cars from positive to negative ground. Tachometers had to be reconfigured and it didn't always work. I had one electric fuel pump that didn't take kindly to being told to run on negative ground.
Supposedly you got less corrosion with positive ground vehicles because of it was correct for the flow of electrons in a DC system.
Aaron
__________________
....so many Airstreams....so little time...
WBCCI #XXXX AIR #2495
Why are we in this basket...and where are we going
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11-18-2014, 04:19 PM
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#22
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Rivet Master
1972 31' Sovereign
1975 31' Excella 500
Currently Looking...
Benton
, Arkansas
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,868
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Help! Help! Positive Ground Tow Vehicle
Some tachs might be a problem, fuel pumps maybe, both depending on their configuration.
In any case, back to the original post, if I had to tow a trailer, the most simple solution would be to convert the tow vehicle to 12V negative ground.
My Lincoln required 12 volt light bulbs, a 12 volt generator, a gage resistor from a Mustang, and a 12 volt to six volt converter to run my stock radio. The radio now runs negative ground with no ill effects.
1/2 Ton 4WD Truck, 72 Sovereign Hensley Arrow
__________________
The fact that I am opinionated does not presuppose that I am wrong......
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11-19-2014, 06:13 PM
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#23
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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I was told that my 1999 Dodge 2500 with 24-valve Cummins diesel has a positive ground system by the lead diesel mechanic at Southbank Dodge in Ottawa where I service my truck.
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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11-19-2014, 06:21 PM
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#24
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Foster
Hudsons were negative ground until they went to 12v in 1954 or 55.
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This should have read Hudsons were positive ground.
Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums
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12-15-2014, 06:31 PM
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#25
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Vintage Kin
Fort Worth
, Texas
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 8,014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
I was told that my 1999 Dodge 2500 with 24-valve Cummins diesel has a positive ground system by the lead diesel mechanic at Southbank Dodge in Ottawa where I service my truck.
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Negative ground
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12-15-2014, 09:23 PM
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#26
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Rivet Master
2013 31' Classic
billings
, Montana
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,576
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Model T's were neg. ground, the A's on up were positive ground until the early 50's.My 07 dodge with 2 batteries is neg ground, my 92 ford 7.3 made in Canada is negative ground...
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12-16-2014, 07:50 PM
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#27
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover
Negative ground
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Regrettably, you are incorrect. The 1999 Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel has a positive ground. FYI, see https://www.google.com/search?q=1999...A&ved=0CD8QsAQ
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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12-16-2014, 08:26 PM
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#28
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Rivet Master
Vintage Kin Owner
Lin
, Ne
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
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Google isn't 100% correct.
__________________
The higher your expectations the fewer your options.
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12-16-2014, 11:12 PM
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#29
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Rivet Master
1965 17' Caravel
1983 27' Excella
Walnut Grove/Laguna Woods
, California
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,635
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
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I may be blind, but I see nothing on that link indicating that a 1999 Dodge 2500 is Positive ground. What am I missing?
Put quotation marks around your search and see what it finds.
"1999 Dodge 2500 positive ground"
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12-17-2014, 06:04 AM
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#30
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Rivet Master
1966 22' Safari
Hilltop Lakes
, Texas
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,764
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Believe the vehicle, not the tech
Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
I was told that my 1999 Dodge 2500 with 24-valve Cummins diesel has a positive ground system by the lead diesel mechanic at Southbank Dodge in Ottawa where I service my truck.
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Look at the battery cables in your truck. One of them will be relatively short and will be bolted to the metal frame. That one is the ground, without a doubt.
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12-17-2014, 08:02 AM
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#31
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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The link at https://www.google.com/search?q=1999...A&ved=0CD8QsAQ does NOT show a positive ground.
If the Dodge were positive ground it would be a reason not to buy that product. Every other US built or sold vehicle in the last 50 years has been negative ground. Just think of all of the confusion with road side service jump starting. Non-trained techs (and there is a lot of those) getting false readings with electrical tests. Or damaging test equipment.
There would be electrical compoents that were only available at a Dodge dealerships because fast moving parts houses would not make them due to the limited application.
I would fully expect a warning sticker under the under the hood that is very visable stating the vehicle has positive ground that is counter to the industry standard.
If bets were possible I would give odds on if any domestic built Dodge in the last 50 years had a designed positive gound electrical system.
>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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12-19-2014, 06:45 AM
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#32
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Action
The link at https://www.google.com/search?q=1999...A&ved=0CD8QsAQ does NOT show a positive ground.
If the Dodge were positive ground it would be a reason not to buy that product. Every other US built or sold vehicle in the last 50 years has been negative ground. Just think of all of the confusion with road side service jump starting. Non-trained techs (and there is a lot of those) getting false readings with electrical tests. Or damaging test equipment.
There would be electrical compoents that were only available at a Dodge dealerships because fast moving parts houses would not make them due to the limited application.
I would fully expect a warning sticker under the under the hood that is very visable stating the vehicle has positive ground that is counter to the industry standard.
If bets were possible I would give odds on if any domestic built Dodge in the last 50 years had a designed positive gound electrical system.
>>>>>>>>>Action
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Action, you lose the bet.
I own a 1999 Dodge diesel. I have seen that to wire on extra fog lights where the lights had come with only the one lead (with the shell to be ground) it had to be mounted between two pieces of rubber to insulate the shell. Later on I switched to LED marker lights and they have the two leads (red and black), so they could be bolted to the Iron Bull bumpers that I have. If you don't own a 1999 Dodge Diesel, then don't make assumptions about them. Instead, visit a Dodge dealership and speak with their diesel mechanic.
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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12-19-2014, 07:55 AM
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#33
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Rivet Master
1995 30' Excella
Bowie
, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blkmagikca
Action, you lose the bet.
I own a 1999 Dodge diesel. I have seen that to wire on extra fog lights where the lights had come with only the one lead (with the shell to be ground) it had to be mounted between two pieces of rubber to insulate the shell. Later on I switched to LED marker lights and they have the two leads (red and black), so they could be bolted to the Iron Bull bumpers that I have. If you don't own a 1999 Dodge Diesel, then don't make assumptions about them. Instead, visit a Dodge dealership and speak with their diesel mechanic.
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Based on everything I can find on the web, your mechanics are wrong. For example, check out this page, which shows the battery cables. The positive terminals connect together then to something else, while the negatives are short to connect to the frame and engine. (Clearly, I have a few minutes to spare this morning.)
I can't believe there would be a positive ground vehicle built in the US for the '99 model year. It would mean many electrical parts under the hood would have to be specially made and designed for Dodge; the Takata air bag recall shows that generic parts are used for things we don't usually see. As others have said, the risks to tow truck operators and such would be enormous (though no one mentioned the fun of an exploding battery or two). The web search link provided shows no indication of positive ground (other than this thread - the third result right now!); searching for negative ground actually does turn up some relevant results. None of the forum threads I looked at mentioned a positive ground setup, which would be pretty important to tell someone who is working on their truck.
My father had a '99 Ram 2500 and never mentioned it having positive ground. I'm sure he would have figured it out the hard way when he installed the CB radio.
Also, in your story about the original fog lights, they wouldn't work at all the way you described the installation. If it was electrically isolated from the bumper and only had one wire, no current would flow at all. Moreover, assuming you did have a positive ground (and the electrical isolation you described didn't work), the single wire was hooked to negative, while incandescent bulbs would work with the current flowing either way, I'm not sure if halogens would. The reason the LEDs have two wires is because most, if not all, cars come with plastic bumpers now, so there's no ground available (positive or negative) without specifically running a wire.
I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong, but this is just too wild to believe without seeing a wiring diagram or a picture of a positive battery terminal connected to ground, or something like that.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel
Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
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12-19-2014, 08:06 AM
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#34
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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I believe cummins made some positive ground engines for commercial or industrial use into the late nineties. Ambulances? Jim
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12-19-2014, 08:11 AM
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#35
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Rivet Master
Currently Looking...
Mantua
, Ohio
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,062
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Google cummins positive ground. Jim
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12-19-2014, 09:31 AM
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#36
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Rivet Master
1995 30' Excella
Bowie
, Maryland
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi
Google cummins positive ground. Jim
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This is the internet, and we can link directly to sites that actually provide information... I assume this is what you're looking at? It's dated 1968, and it appears to be for pumps in fire engines.
__________________
1995 Airstream Classic 30' Excella 1000
2014 Ram 2500 Crew Cab with Cummins 6.7L Diesel
Sold but not forgotten: 1991 Airstream B190
Sold: 2006 F-250 6.0L Powerstroke Supercab
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12-19-2014, 01:28 PM
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#37
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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This is of a 2001 Dodge Ram 2500 Turbo diesel. 1998 to 2002 are the same.
Vid really starts at 40 seconds. Everything in front of that is intro. At 4:05 to 4:07 the mechanic explains where the other end of red cable (positive) from the battery is attached.
At 6:40 the mechanic explains not to touch the removed red (positive) cable end to the body (ground) because .... well the body of the truck is not grounded positively.
The rest of the vid is how to built the positive cable that connects both batteries.
Now back to the op from the UK on his issue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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12-19-2014, 06:34 PM
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#38
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Rivet Master
1987 32' Excella
Nepean
, Ontario
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,414
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Action: you're in Phoenix and I'm now in Casa Grande (1 hour south of you). I'd be willing to drive to Phoenix (I need to go there anyhow for some shopping) and show you my truck - then, since you lose, you can buy me lunch!
__________________
VE3JDZ
AIR 12148
1987 Excella 32-foot
1999 Dodge Ram 2500HD Diesel
WBCCI 8080
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12-19-2014, 08:18 PM
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#39
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Moderator dude
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix
, Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,501
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Works for me. It's been awhile since I have had a good lunch in Tempe.
Claim Jumper 1530 West Baseline Road Tempe, AZ Just East of I-17 and on the North side of Baseline. Claim Jumper Restaurants
Negative ground your plastic pays
Positive ground my plastic pays
Just for clarity the vehicle in question has to have a stock starting system.
I will bring a mirror, a flash light and a camera. Results will be posted.
After the first of the year as the Claim Jumper is near the mall and that place is a mess for the holidays.
Or save yourself the lunch and follow the black cable off of either battery to the engine block.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
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12-19-2014, 09:04 PM
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#40
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Rivet Master
Port Orchard
, Washington
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 4,463
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This is actually amusing to read. Poster A says, he has a positive ground. All other posters say "oh no you don't because it just can't be." Post A says "Oh yes I do".
First of all what difference does it make to everyone else what ground he has?
Secondly the only way to resolve it, if anyone other than Post A cares, is for poster A to post a photo of his battery connections.
Personally I lean toward Poster A being misinformed. However since its not my truck (which by the way has a negative ground), I don't really give a rat's back side. I don't even know why I spent the time posting this, except that TV tonight sucks, as it usually seems to, and I'm bored. Isn't it pathetic that I'm so bored that I stooped to this?
Ken
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