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Old 03-09-2007, 07:51 AM   #1
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Disk Brake install Pics?

Hi all! Getting ever closer to getting new axles and disk brakes (saving, saving, saving $$$).

For those with disk brakes, can you show me how you (or the dealer or Airstream) routed the brake lines?

My simple diagram below is two ways I've thought about it ("O"=wheel "T" = T junction).....


O O O____T____O
Actuator_____T ___T OR this way Actuator_____________T
O O O____T____O

The problem with the first way is that there needs to be either a four way junction (which I haven't seen) or two T-junctions at the first junction to make it work right... seems in-elegant. Second method is the way I'm leaning.

I'd love to see actual pics of how the brake lines are run. Anybody up for this? I'd like to see any brackets that hold the junctions on.... especially in the wheel wells where the solid lines join with the flex lines to the disks themselves. Also, do the lines go through the axle mounting plates to the frame wall facing the wheels, or do they go around or under the plates to the frame wall.
Thanks!
Marc
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Old 03-09-2007, 07:53 AM   #2
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oops...

my simple diagram looked good on the forum editor but not on the actual posting. I'll have to draw a diagram and post it.
Marc
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Old 03-09-2007, 08:00 AM   #3
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Let's see

see if this works... the second one is my preference... shorter runs between the wheels. See post 1 for my questions,
Thanks!
Marc
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:05 AM   #4
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It should not make a difference. Hydraulic pressure will be exerted equaly as long as you use normal size brake lines. A common problem with Electrical brakes is the fact that minumal size wires are often used resulting in a voltage drop across the line. Airstream runs the brake wireing down the drivers side and then crosses over at each axle to the passanger side brakes. The 6 ft. additional wire results in less brakeing on the passanger side, as noted by the life of the passanger side brake shoes. You should not see this problem with hydraulics.
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Old 03-09-2007, 09:21 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
For those with disk brakes, can you show me how you (or the dealer or Airstream) routed the brake lines? I'd love to see actual pics of how the brake lines are run.
hi marc

i'll dig through my photos and post a few of the factory install routing this weekend.

the factory lines run along the belly to the wheel wells and then along the OUTER side of the frame rails to each hub.
a tire blowout, belt separation could damage the lines with this locaton...at least it's a potential, theoretical issue.

also suggest you call/email david tidmore at rogerwilliamsairstream in weatherford texas.

their shop has done several of the upgrades as in 10s. david has them on his bambi and they did rich luhrs upgrade.

as i recall his shop is routing the lines along the INNER side of the frame rails and looping around at each hub....

david or the shop guys can give you great advice on their preferred setup...

cheers
2air'
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Old 03-09-2007, 05:45 PM   #6
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Thanks 2air!

I was looking at the install pic (really, only 2 good ones in the article) in ASLife. Trying to figure out the best ways. I'll ask David T. if he might sell me the tubing... but I bet they bend it themselves at time of install. Too bad Tx is so far away!

I'd really appreciate the pics. I'm going to go with the Kodiaks after all.... I LOVE the Dexter's, but for less then price of two calipers from Dexter, I can get all four from Kodiak. I'm sure they'll stop me fine.. I'll just check the pads with each bearing pack.
Thanks again!
Marc
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Old 03-10-2007, 08:15 AM   #7
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In a hydraulic brake installation routing is not that important, look at the routing in your car. What is very important is when bending the tubing to insure there are no kinks or reductions in the diameter of the tubing. Again a bending tool is required. Another consideration is brake tubing end are terminated in a "Double Flare" and require a special tool if the tubing is cut in the field. Because of the need for this tool most auto supply store stock brake tubing in precut lengths with the nut already on the tubing. As for the longer length needed to get from the front of the trailer to the azles you can couple several lengths of stock tubing.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:19 AM   #8
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Marc,

My actuator lives in a space next to the refrigerator, inside a cabinet. I can access it by removing a lower cabinet shelf, or by a lower cabinet door.
The cavity is right ahead of the curbside front wheel.
I drilled throught he floor, and ran one line towards the center of the trailer, to a T-junction.
From there, 2 short lines run to yet 2 more T-junctions L+R inside of the wheelwell, just outside the axle mounting bracket.
Then, 2 short lines to the brackets that came with Dexter's torsion axle brake line kit, which has 2 rubber lines, and al associated brackets and t's in it.
The bracket that transfers the steel torubber must be securely bolted to the frame. From there the rubber line connects to the caliper.
For mounting brackets, I chose small steel clamps that have an inner ring made of rubber. These clamps are available in auto parts stores, as are the brakelines in varying lengths. If you do not want to get a flaring tool, then you can get closely matched brake lines, and then make a loop where there is too much length. ( within reason, of course.)

Recap:

metal line from actuator to center of trailer between axles
metal lines from there to L/R between the wheels
metal line from there to mounting brackets for rubber lines
rubber lines to calipers
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:29 AM   #9
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A few pics

Here's a few pics I took somewhere- look familiar uwe.
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Old 03-10-2007, 09:34 AM   #10
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As usual, Tim is on it.
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:25 PM   #11
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A few more pics:
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Old 03-10-2007, 12:47 PM   #12
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thanks everybody!

Uwe - does your "T" between the wheels live on the outside of the frame rails, or the inside?

This (go to the center - T between the wheels) is what I was thinking of my first choice.

Regarding where the actuator lives. I have a spot in my front under the dinette that I was thinking of putting it, vs putting it in under one of my twin beds in the back. The front would have shorter electric runs from the TV to the Actibrake (with longer runs for the trailer battery as my breakaway power source) OR the rear would have shorter breakaway to AB runs, but longer TV to AB runs.

AB says to put the actuator where the TV to AB runs are shorter (less voltage drop between the TV and the AB) - does it really matter?
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Old 03-10-2007, 07:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
Uwe - does your "T" between the wheels live on the outside of the frame rails, or the inside?

This (go to the center - T between the wheels) is what I was thinking of my first choice.

Regarding where the actuator lives. I have a spot in my front under the dinette that I was thinking of putting it, vs putting it in under one of my twin beds in the back. The front would have shorter electric runs from the TV to the Actibrake (with longer runs for the trailer battery as my breakaway power source) OR the rear would have shorter breakaway to AB runs, but longer TV to AB runs.

AB says to put the actuator where the TV to AB runs are shorter (less voltage drop between the TV and the AB) - does it really matter?
My T's are outseide the frame, if I remember correctly. I ran soem conduit over the brake line that connects the two axles, in case of a blowout and tire shred.

Electrics:
It does not matter where you put the actuator, so long that the wire gauge is sufficient. I ran automotive battery cable for all the supply lines, I believe it is 2ga (?) or 0ga. Pretty heavy stuff. So, I can tap into it anywhere, and never have a measureable voltage drop. My chare line from eh TV to the trailer umbilical is 10ga. My umbilical connector is a 7-pin round, which is rated for much more current than the 7-pin flat. (35A vs 20A continuous.) I bleieve that the connection of the 7-pin round is more secure than the 7-pin flat, having had both.
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Old 03-11-2007, 12:59 AM   #14
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a few more pix to add to the mix....

thesse show orientation lines and mounting on outer frame rail....

junction with the flex line...

and how the calipers look when off for a bearing pack...

cheer
2air'

each can be zoomed 1-2x for a little better details.....
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:02 AM   #15
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more of the same....

cheers
2air

again open in a window and zoom zoom...
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Old 03-11-2007, 01:07 AM   #16
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and the under side....

line comes in from the front/street side...

into the center bottom.

passes under the stink hose tube and through the flag box....

then splits for each side....

copper line is bigger, steel line is much smaller.

cheers
2air'

again zoom zoom as needed.

hope you see these marc before the server shakeup on monday!
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Old 03-11-2007, 09:49 AM   #17
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UWE

Can you go into a bit more detail on the electrical side of the installation.
You say you used #2 wire to supply the actuator. What current does the actuator draw? If you are running it off the trailer batteries how well do the batteries hold up on a long day?

I replaced every exterior light on my trailer with LEDs just to increase the run time on the trailer batteries. This seams counter productive if the acturator draws high current unless you were to install a second alternator to supply the trailer.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
UWE

Can you go into a bit more detail on the electrical side of the installation.
You say you used #2 wire to supply the actuator. What current does the actuator draw? If you are running it off the trailer batteries how well do the batteries hold up on a long day?
I did not run #2 wire to the actuator. I ran #10 wire to the actuator from the coach batteries, fused by a 30A inline fuse. The coach batteries also act as the breakaway battery.
I ran a #2 or #4 ( or whatever big battery cable is, don't exactly remember) from the umbilical cord all the way to the batteries. This line also connects to the tongue jack, converter/charger and to the 12V fuse box.
My Suburban has a 160A ( iirc) alternator as part of the factory tow package. My charging system and truck battery are well suited to supply the trailer with enough charging current to operate safely, and well within specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowieE
I replaced every exterior light on my trailer with LEDs just to increase the run time on the trailer batteries. This seams counter productive if the acturator draws high current unless you were to install a second alternator to supply the trailer.
Your exterior lights are ran by the lighting circuit of the truck, not the coach batteries. With the exception of the porch and scare lights. The exterior lights would have little to do with battery conservation, no?
My Suburban's alternator actually does a fine job of charging the coach batteries while towing, despite the relatively high current draw of the actuator.
My design ensures enough current capability to supply the actuator with power from the tow vehicle, while still allowing the batteries to be charged while towing. It is not necessary to make huge changes to a rig to run hydraulic disc brakes, but since I built everything from scratch, there was no need to compromise anywhere.
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:14 AM   #19
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woo hoo...

I think I've got it. Really doens't look too hard. My local Dexter dealer is able to set me up with the tubing, etc. I've also found some sets at Easternmarine.com. http://shop.easternmarine.com/index....categoryID=156 Maybe not the exact set up, but they have others available too.

Actuators - seems like Dexter and Actibrake wire theirs a bit differently. The Dexter looks like it can all be powered off the trailer battery. The AB is wired off the trailer battery for the breakaway function, and off the TV supply line for operation of the brakes. Probably could be wired off the trailer only, but I'll go with their wiring diagram for now.

Thanks again all!
Marc
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Old 03-11-2007, 10:24 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Ms75Argosy
Actuators - seems like Dexter and Actibrake wire theirs a bit differently. The Dexter looks like it can all be powered off the trailer battery. The AB is wired off the trailer battery for the breakaway function, and off the TV supply line for operation of the brakes. Probably could be wired off the trailer only, but I'll go with their wiring diagram for now.

Thanks again all!
Marc
Marc,
The charge line and the trailer battery are indeed the same potential.
It is a more or less continuous connection between the alternator/truck battery, charge line, coach battery. Usually no switches or relays in this circuit.
The breawaway switch gets powered on the hot side by the same circuit, the coach battery/charge line etc...
The switched side of the breakaway switch then goes to the dedicated breakaway connector of the actuator. It is extremely simple, all things considered.

Page 6 of the attached manual shows the electrical requirements of the Dexter unit. It says 25-40A is acceptable.
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