Chevrolet integrated brake control

[gparker]

Anyone have a chevy with the integrated controller? Is it any good? Just bought a new chevy with out a controller and I am wondering if i can or should get the chevy controller installed.
Greg

[HowieE]

My comment come from experience with GM products and their electrical systems.

Generally GM uses the smallest wire diameter they can get away with for a given circuit. There for I would not trust them for anything as critical as trailer brakes.

Take a look at the 3rd page in my truck web site, noted in my signature, to see what a 34 fter did to the head light switch and then think about it.

[AirsDream]

I have an '08 GMC 2500 diesel with factory built-in brake controller. It works like a dream. It (and I think the FoMoCo factory unit is the same) directly reads master brake cylinder presssure, so rather than measuring deceleration and attempting to translate that into trailer brake application, it reads how hard the driver is trying to stop and goes from there.

But I don't know whether it's available after-market, because of the direct master cylinder pressure-reading transducer and is built into dashboard and reads out its level of output thorugh the Driver Information Center in the instrument cluster.

One other caveat: I have drum brakes ... rumor is that it does not mate well with Kodiak disc brakes.

[SteveH]

Sort of off subject, but I added my Prodigy to my '07 GMC truck, which was wired for the unit, and like Howie says, the wires were minimum sized. However, I've not had any trouble with it.

[Airhog1]

The 2007 GM Intergrated brake control will not work the disc brakes on the new Classic Airstreams...GM sent out a bulletin on it and a diagram of how you have to disable the factory brake control and install a new after market controller such as the Prodigy or Hayes Genesis...there is some re-wiring that needs to be done so, if anyone needs the bulletin I can send it to them.

G

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by HowieE

My comment come from experience with GM products and their electrical systems.

Generally GM uses the smallest wire diameter they can get away with for a given circuit. There for I would not trust them for anything as critical as trailer brakes.

Take a look at the 3rd page in my truck web site, noted in my signature, to see what a 34 fter did to the head light switch and then think about it.

I think most automakers do the same thing....my simple answer was to go full LED lighting on the exterior of the trailer...running lights, (tail lights were factory). Power draw is significantly reduced compared to incandescent bulbs and will not overload the circuits on the electrical light circuits on the tow vehicle. You could in essence put 3x the lights on the outside of the trailer using LEDs and not be up to the power draw of the standard fixtures on the outside using standard incandescent bulbs.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by gparker

Anyone have a chevy with the integrated controller? Is it any good? Just bought a new chevy with out a controller and I am wondering if i can or should get the chevy controller installed.
Greg

Greg,

I have that feature in a 2008 2500HD that I just bought. When I was shopping around for this vehicle, I saw several examples on lots, some with the brake controller, some without. I wanted the brake controller as I liked the fact that it tied directly with the TV's hydraulic system to sense brake pressure.

What I was told (and I'm not 100% sure it is so) is that this feature was a factory installation only and that GMC did not permit installation by its dealers.


Brian.

[HowieE]

Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie

I think most automakers do the same thing....my simple answer was to go full LED lighting on the exterior of the trailer...running lights, (tail lights were factory).

Yes I have gone fully LEDs on the trailer exterior lights and relayed them off the trailer batteries. This was after I had melted 2 head light switches.

The Auto fog lights mounted in the wheel wells used as backup lights are also relayed off the trailer batteries.

As for the brakes I ran #10 wire back from the controller to the trailer plug on all my TVs to reduce voltage drop within the truck.

[frlcad5]

I also bought a 2007 Chevy 2500 diesel with the brake controller installed, I checked with the salesman to verify that it would work with disc brakes. After buying the truck I found out it didn't. The dealer had to disable the factory controller and install my Prodigy. It works fine.

[SteveH]

I find it interesting that the current GM brake controller works off the brake system hydraulic pressure, which is how the first controllers that I had worked way back in the 70's. The pressure would push a piston out, which would make electrical contact on a variable, wire wound, resistor. The harder you pushed on the peddle, the farther the piston would come out, making the resistance the least. They actually worked pretty well, all considering.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by frlcad5

I also bought a 2007 Chevy 2500 diesel with the brake controller installed, I checked with the salesman to verify that it would work with disc brakes. After buying the truck I found out it didn't. The dealer had to disable the factory controller and install my Prodigy. It works fine.

When I was buying my truck recently, I was quite amazed (I guess I shouldn't have been) by the amount of misinformation I was given by different salespeople (Not only GM) - outlandish figures for tow ratings, etc. etc.

I'm not sure if it was a case of intentional lies, more likely I suppose just not knowing and telling you what they think you want to hear and not really caring a whole lot whether it is good or bad info as you likely won't (or can't) do anything about it after the fact anyway!

You really have to do your own homework! On a few points I wanted to better understand, I even went to GM's website figuring I could get the right answers from the technical people at GM.

All they did was to refer me to my local dealer who they assured me could answer all my questions! The whole process sure didn't inspire a whole lot of confidence & I was getting so P'd off I came very close to forgetting about GM!

Having said that, I'm pretty happy with the new truck - just hope they stay in business for a while considering the extended warranty I bought!

[66Overlander]

Originally Posted by HowieE

My comment come from experience with GM products and their electrical systems.

Generally GM uses the smallest wire diameter they can get away with for a given circuit. There for I would not trust them for anything as critical as trailer brakes.

Take a look at the 3rd page in my truck web site, noted in my signature, to see what a 34 fter did to the head light switch and then think about it.

Your information is not current, although it may be correct for the 1997 truck noted in your signature. GM's current full size trucks (Silverado, Sierra, Suburban, Esacalade et. al.) do not directly control trailer lights with the headlight switch. There is a computer and relays in the various trailer lighting circuits. The headlight switch merely sends a low power signal to the computer. It has to be that way to support the automatic light control feature that is standard on these models.

And all GM trailer lighting wires and fuses are correctly sized to handle the currents drawn by normal trailer light and trailer brake setups. Now if you've added extra lamps, you might end up blowing fuses . . .

That said, you can always reduce the voltage drop to trailer lamps and trailer brakes by running larger wires if you wish.

[gparker]

Well I was told by the dealer that they could not add the brake controller. I didn't have time to get into the why of it all, but I will start researching the other controllers and go from there. Guess I have some reading to do. Thanks for your info.

[SteveH]

Greg,

If your new Chevy came with the towing package, it should already be wired for an electric controller. My '07 GMC was and installing the Prodigy was a snap.

[catson4]

My '07 Chevy HD2500 has the factory brake controller. I tow my 1991 34' AS and all works great.
If this will not work with disc brakes, then if I where to change from the electric magnet brakes I would have to change the controller too. No big deal.
I wish the controllers position on the dash was higher up for easier access for when applying trailer ONLY brakes. But I am used to it now.
I like the positive side of this factory controller, the very precise control. The trailer responds very nicely and when going down grade
w/Allison in MANUAL mode, I do not need much brake anyway.

On the Oregon coast is a different story. Always some person in a CAR going slow, 30 mph or less, in the hills & and curves and 90 mph on the straights.
But oh-well.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by catson4

My '07 Chevy HD2500 has the factory brake controller. I tow my 1991 34' AS and all works great.
If this will not work with disc brakes, then if I where to change from the electric magnet brakes I would have to change the controller too. No big deal.
I wish the controllers position on the dash was higher up for easier access for when applying trailer ONLY brakes. But I am used to it now.
I like the positive side of this factory controller, the very precise control. The trailer responds very nicely and when going down grade
w/Allison in MANUAL mode, I do not need much brake anyway.

On the Oregon coast is a different story. Always some person in a CAR going slow, 30 mph or less, in the hills & and curves and 90 mph on the straights.
But oh-well.

Claude,

Can you fill me in a bit on the use of the manual mode svp.

I just bought a similar vehicle but haven't towed with it yet. I've read the manual through once but wasn't all that clear on the use of the +/- manual control.

Is it something you use instead of the tow/haul feature or instead of? What is the basic principal involved - do you then somehow take charg of doing all the shifting of the tranny when you use it?


Thanks ...... Brian

[AirsDream]

Hmmmm ... there are two "manual modes" in play here ... one on the brake controller, and one on the transmission. As to brake controller manual control - on most controllers, and on your '08, there are two "finger grip" knobs extending from it, one of which is a slider that controls a rheostatat. Once you're hooked up, you can (slowly) increase the amount of "gain" that the controller produces and then while driving at perhaps 30 mph, apply the trailer brakes only, by squeezing those two knobs together. My understanding is that you've got it dialed in right when on dry pavement at 30 or so, the trailer brakes, when fully applied (knobs squeezed fully together), almost but not quite, produce trailer wheel lockup. Then you have the choice of a) allowing the controller to apply the trailer brakes automatically, using whatever algorithm it uses to decide how hard to apply them, or b) apply them yourself by squeezing the slider. The latter is said to be a useful maneuver in some near loss-of-control situations ... but I've never had to use it (yet!).

The Allison transmission's also got "manual shift" mode that uses the little + and - buttons on the stalk to select gears. To access it, just move the gear selector until your readout says "M-1" or something like that. Using that, YOU select the gear with the + and - buttons, and it won't shift out of it unless you get quite high engine speeds or come to a near stop. I sometimes use this when moving heavy loads like a tractor on a trailer, at low speeds over uneven ground where I'm looking for constant low speed and I don't want it to change gears on me.

Tow / haul mode invokes a different shift regime for the Allison: it moves the shift points up quite a bit, so you stay in a lower gear for longer periods of time until higher engine rpms are achieved when accelerating, and when decelerating, it downshifts much earlier, helping a little in braking. It also will keep you in fifth gear instead of sixth, until you reach highway speeds - thus eliminating much of the "hunting" for the right gear associated with "regular" mode on some engine / transmission combinations. Staying in fifth gear is more useful in hilly country, less useful with a diesel due to having all that torque on tap.

[frlcad5]

When my 2007 chevy truck with the factory brake controller didn't work I checked with the folks who build the disc brake setup on the Airstreams. It seems that the reason it won't work is GM's controller is looking for a inductive load (brake coil) to sense the trailer is hooked up. No inductive load and the controller is disabled. It seems that Ford had the same problem and installed some coils to get around the problem. I guess GM took the same old position that has put them near bankruptcy and didn't bother to fix the problem. I love my truck but guys like GM's Wagner and the other "Fat Cat" need to listen to the costomers and react when needed.

[catson4]

Wingeezer - Technically the "M" stands for "Range Selection Mode" but has been and probably will into the future be called the "MANUAL" mode.

"AIRSDREAM" wrote:
{The Allison transmission's also got "manual shift" mode that uses the little + and - buttons on the stalk to select gears. To access it, just move the gear selector until your readout says "M-1" or something like that. Using that, YOU select the gear with the + and - buttons, and it won't shift out of it unless you get quite high engine speeds or come to a near stop. I sometimes use this when moving heavy loads like a tractor on a trailer, at low speeds over uneven ground where I'm looking for constant low speed and I don't want it to change gears on me.}

Actually the read out on your dash will say from left to right ; P-R-D-M-1,
If you select the "M" then you are in "manual" mode. If you select "1" then you are in low gear and the trans will not shift up.
As Airsdream says then you select the gear you want, up or down, using the rocker switch on the gear shift lever, as indicated with the + or - signs.
HOWEVER, the trans WILL shift down on it's own ,at it's pre-set shift points, IF you select ANY range ABOVE first.
In other words, if you select 3 and come to a stop light with out shifting up or down, The trans WILL shift down for you. Then when you start moving again, the trans will shift up from 1st through 2nd and into 3rd range as your speed and RPM's dictate but it will not go above that . You will have to shift it up or down OR move the selector lever to D and that would put you back into regular drive.
You can shift between Drive & Manual at any time.
If you are running on a level highway at 60 mph in Drive, you can shift into Manual and the display on the dash will show you are in 6th range.
In the "M" mode then you can shift down and the display will show which range you have selected. If you shift down to many ranges and the trans is not ready to take that range, it will decelerate until it can shift into the selected range. This is not a recommended shift as you will be putting the Duramax RPM's right at the top of each range as it shifts down.
Not good IMHO.

The manual mode works in either "Regular" or "Tow" modes.
It really works great on slippery roads as you do not need to brake as often because you can slow down with the trans and it is smoother than brakes.
And it is super in the mountains and even on the freeways. I use "M" when towing and set it to 5th range. that way the trans does the shifting as it needs BUT does not go into 6th and I get better MPG as the motor gets to use the fuel it is being fed rather than running at the lowest RPM in 6th. This works with my 34ftr and I have just over 21,000 miles in 16 months on my "07 Chevy now.
In 5th range I get right at .5 to 1.0 miles per gallon MORE than in 6th on the freeways running at 60 MPH.


Drive it a while and , like "MIKEY"-you will like it.

[Wingeezer]

Originally Posted by AirsDream

Hmmmm ... there are two "manual modes" in play here ... one on the brake controller, and one on the transmission. As to brake controller manual control - on most controllers, and on your '08, there are two "finger grip" knobs extending from it, one of which is a slider that controls a rheostatat. Once you're hooked up, you can (slowly) increase the amount of "gain" that the controller produces and then while driving at perhaps 30 mph, apply the trailer brakes only, by squeezing those two knobs together. My understanding is that you've got it dialed in right when on dry pavement at 30 or so, the trailer brakes, when fully applied (knobs squeezed fully together), almost but not quite, produce trailer wheel lockup. Then you have the choice of a) allowing the controller to apply the trailer brakes automatically, using whatever algorithm it uses to decide how hard to apply them, or b) apply them yourself by squeezing the slider. The latter is said to be a useful maneuver in some near loss-of-control situations ... but I've never had to use it (yet!).

The Allison transmission's also got "manual shift" mode that uses the little + and - buttons on the stalk to select gears. To access it, just move the gear selector until your readout says "M-1" or something like that. Using that, YOU select the gear with the + and - buttons, and it won't shift out of it unless you get quite high engine speeds or come to a near stop. I sometimes use this when moving heavy loads like a tractor on a trailer, at low speeds over uneven ground where I'm looking for constant low speed and I don't want it to change gears on me.

Tow / haul mode invokes a different shift regime for the Allison: it moves the shift points up quite a bit, so you stay in a lower gear for longer periods of time until higher engine rpms are achieved when accelerating, and when decelerating, it downshifts much earlier, helping a little in braking. It also will keep you in fifth gear instead of sixth, until you reach highway speeds - thus eliminating much of the "hunting" for the right gear associated with "regular" mode on some engine / transmission combinations. Staying in fifth gear is more useful in hilly country, less useful with a diesel due to having all that torque on tap.

Many thanks for the info,

Your explanation and the added info from CATSON4 will help a lot.


It was specifically the tranny I was confused about. The Brake controller seems pretty much the same to use as aftermarket ones that I had on earlier tow vehicles.

Like you, I have never had need to operate the trailer brakes independently by squeezing the levers.

Brian