Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-12-2021, 09:58 AM   #1
3 Rivet Member
 
1973 23' Safari
1970 27' Overlander
Boerne , Texas
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 197
Brakes not working

All hitched up, but trailer brakes not working. All the lights work including brake lights. Trailer disconnect works and locks up the wheels. Fuses for brake controller intact. I cleaned the ball/hitch and umbilical connections well. Still no brakes. Suggestions?
Greg
Greg1410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 10:09 AM   #2
4 Rivet Member

 
2017 25' International
West Lake Hills , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 460
Can you check the 7-pin at the truck with a multimeter?

What is your tow vehicle?
Fungus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-12-2021, 10:13 AM   #3
Ready-to-Travel
 
pmclemore's Avatar

 
2012 30' International
Walkerton , Virginia
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,035
Does your controller indicate voltage/gain to the brakes? Which controller do you have?

If integral to your tow vehicle, your manual should shed some light - perhaps a fuse/relay?

Pat
__________________
--------------------------------------
Somebody, please, point me to the road.

AIR 3987
TAC VA-2
WBCCI 4596
pmclemore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 07:22 AM   #4
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 24
I am having the same problem

I noticed that the brakes were very soft on my last trip. I figured I would get the bearings repacked and the brakes adjusted. When I picked up my 2010 23fb I had no brakes. The shop said it may be my connector on the harness so I replaced that. Still no brakes. I have tested the brake controller and it is working properly.
I have put a multimeter on the junction box connection and I am getting 11.4 volts there. I also lifted the mattress and looked at the distribution box and I am getting 11.4V there. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like the distribution box feeds to each brake separately.

I decided to pull off one of the tires and the hub to test and see if the magnet engages and when the brakes are engaged wrench sticks to the magnet. I also removed the connectors and verified that I get about the same Volts to that line. It is a little lower 11.1. I also spun the rear tire on that side and it locks up.

Yet when I put it all back together and test it I have no brakes.

Any ideas?
Bigboote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 09:37 AM   #5
4 Rivet Member

 
2017 25' International
West Lake Hills , Texas
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigboote View Post
I decided to pull off one of the tires and the hub to test and see if the magnet engages and when the brakes are engaged wrench sticks to the magnet. I also removed the connectors and verified that I get about the same Volts to that line. It is a little lower 11.1. I also spun the rear tire on that side and it locks up.

Yet when I put it all back together and test it I have no brakes.

Any ideas?
When you had the hub off, how did you test the brakes?
  1. Pressing the brake pedal with the TV engine running?
  2. Pressing the brake pedal with the TV engine not running?
  3. Pulling the breakaway switch?
  4. Other?
Fungus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 12:19 PM   #6
Rivet Master
 
Al and Missy's Avatar
 
2002 30' Classic S/O
Fleming Island , Florida
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,270
I have assumed that the brakes are properly adjusted. You should hear a slight dragging sound as a wheel is rotated.

In my opinion, you can't test a brake by trying to turn it yourself. The rolling trailer supplies significantly more torque than you can apply. You also only know that one brake is at least partially working. Each magnet is should draw about 3 amps, so the total current for 4 brakes should be around 12 amps. Disconnect from your TV, put 12 volts on the brake wire (probably blue) to ground (frame) and measure the current to ensure that all magnets are drawing current.

Pull a hub again (sorry) and look at the surface of the magnet and the face of the drum where the magnet rides (not where the shoes ride). The magnet should be evenly worn and the insulating material on the face should be intact. If the magnet surface is tilted or the insulation is worn through, the magnet should be replaced (in pairs, both on the same axle). There is also a specification for wear and smoothness on both surfaces of the drum. In 2014 I had a hard time finding a shop that could turn the drum to smooth the magnet surface of my drums; it may be even harder now. But when I had it done and replaced a couple of magnets the braking power increased substantially.


Al
__________________
“You cannot reason someone out of a position they have not been reasoned into"
Al, K5TAN and Missy, N4RGO WBCCI 1322
2002 Classic 30 Slideout -S/OS #004
2013 Dodge 2500 Laramie 4x4 Megacab Cummins
Al and Missy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 02:36 PM   #7
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,187
Blog Entries: 1
on my Dodge I have to use a hammer to seat the 7 pin deep enough to have full contact for the brakes. The brake controller should have an indicator that tells if it is sending a signal to the brakes. Ours is a light that changes color. Some have a meter. That should tell you if the controller is working. We once had a broken wire connection in the trailer cord near the plug. Since your brakes responded to the breakaway switch my guess is a bad connection in the cord or a bad controller. If self adjusting brakes have just been serviced it could take a while for them to respond and maybe scrub in if new shoes. Drive it around a while and manually apply the brake lever quite a few times.
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 02:50 PM   #8
Rivet Master
 
Ray Eklund's Avatar
 
2019 27' International
2014 25' International
2006 23' Safari SE
Fort Saunders , Wyoming
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,443
Not moving Tow Vehicle, Brake Pedal will not Operate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1410 View Post
All hitched up, but trailer brakes not working. All the lights work including brake lights. Trailer disconnect works and locks up the wheels. Fuses for brake controller intact. I cleaned the ball/hitch and umbilical connections well. Still no brakes. Suggestions?
Greg
*****

Greg... I may understand WHY.

If you apply your Tow Vehicle's Brakes while stopped... the trailer lights will indicate braking, but the tow vehicle's brakes will NOT activate the brakes on the Trailer.

Your Tow Vehicle and Trailer have to be MOVING. Applying the vehicle's brake pedal parked or stopped at a Stop Light... will not engage the brakes electrically. On purpose.

You have to use the MANUAL Braking. IF your tow vehicle has one on the dash board. You squeeze the two levers to increase the Braking of the Trailer, stopped or moving. I use it in some situations to TEST my Brakes without using the Tow Vehicle's brake pedal. Just to know the trailer BRAKES are WORKING and not locking up.

My 2016 F350 has a Manual Braking System built onto the Dash Board. I have it set at 8 (if memory serves me). Get a wheel into the Air and have someone spin the wheel. Apply the MANUAL braking.

Somewhere I recall you have to be moving 10mph or something like that for the tow vehicle's brake pedal to activate/power the trailer's electric brake system.

Reason Why: If you are at a Red Light, Tow Vehicle's Brakes applied... you would burn out your trailer's system not moving. This explains, to me... why.

Let us know if this works. Get a wheel in the air and try it. Manual... and then Tow Vehicle's Brake Pedal. Your solution will be immediate!
__________________
Human Bean
Ray Eklund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 03:16 PM   #9
Rivet Master
 
2018 27' Globetrotter
Mooresville , North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg1410 View Post
All hitched up, but trailer brakes not working. All the lights work including brake lights. Trailer disconnect works and locks up the wheels. Fuses for brake controller intact. I cleaned the ball/hitch and umbilical connections well. Still no brakes. Suggestions?
Greg
I had this symptom one time. I looked under my trailer and saw a wire dangling at one wheel. The wire was the electrical connection to the brakes for one wheel. Looked like it just broke or some road debris came up and cut it. I’m not sure if just this one brake wasn’t working or all 4.

The factory only crimped the wires together so it wasn’t a great connection to start with. I reconnected with heat shrink butt connectors and another heat shrink shield over that. Better connection and prevents water intrusion.

Not sure if this is your issue, but was mine. If so, take the tire off and gives easier access to repair.
__________________
2018 GMC Sierra 2500HD Duramax
Equal-I-zer Weight Distribution attached to the Gen-Y Torsion Flex Weight Distribution Hitch
"Roadrunner"
GOUSC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2021, 04:28 PM   #10
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,187
Blog Entries: 1
Connection loose at wheel only affects that wheel. And the break away would not have worked.
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2021, 07:41 AM   #11
Rivet Master
 
Ray Eklund's Avatar
 
2019 27' International
2014 25' International
2006 23' Safari SE
Fort Saunders , Wyoming
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,443
I had a brake wire break where it goes into the drum on the 25 foot International. The F350 screen indicated a brake issue with some prompt, that I cannot recall. Had to pull the drum and I found that the 'magnet' was also very rough... and so were the other three.

The brake pads were fine. The actuating lever that touches the inside drum were not.

I replaced ALL of the brake assemblies myself, and had no further problems. I also wrapped the wiring with electrical tape and pulled them up so they would not catch a small bush by accident and pull one or both of the very thin, fragile wires to break.

With the 27 foot, I secured all of the brake wires after purchase, protecting the wires from being damaged from traveling and working back and forth, breaking the wires where the enter the drum. Secured them to protect from traveling wind beneath the trailer and high along the axle to prevent anything to catch and pull the wires.

No problem with wiring or brakes up to date. We test them each year in the RV Garage by using blocks to get one wheel in the air, Spin... and use the manual braking system in the Ford. Many people may not even realize one or more of their brakes are not working.

To replace brakes, get the complete plate, four bolts, fine wiring secured and now had new brakes and the Never Lube Bearings take care of themselves, I suppose. Sold the trailer a year later and everything worked. We did a total walk through with the buyer and another happy Airstream owner.

I still believe the OP needs to try the manual braking. Not the brakes on the tow vehicle while not moving. I figured it out thinking MY BRAKES were ALL BAD in the 27 footer. There is no other way to check them out that I can come up with.
__________________
Human Bean
Ray Eklund is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 05:49 AM   #12
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 24
Thank you all for your input. Still trying to figure this out. I have replaced the ground screw to see if that was the problem. No change. Also I engaged the breakaway switch and I get the tires to lock up, so I think that the brake mechanics at the hub is ok.
Also had Ford test the brake controller and they say all is fine there.

My brakes are still very week when hooked up to the truck.

I’m stumped.

There are 3 blue wires hooked up to the Distrubution box under the bed. One is the lead from the junction box and the other to must be the run to the brakes. These all run inside the bottom pan. Do these go to another Distrubution hub or do they run straight to the brakes?
Bigboote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 06:05 AM   #13
Rivet Master
 
richard5933's Avatar
 
1994 25' Excella
Waukesha , Wisconsin
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 549
There are two ways that power gets to your brakes - either from the 7-way plug powered by your tow vehicle, or from the breakaway switch powered by the trailer.

The breakaway switch gets its power from a fuse/circuit breaker in the trailer, with its power source being the trailer battery. If that circuit is providing braking leave it be.

The point in the harness with the three blue wires...you're probably seeing these wires:

1. Feed from breakaway switch supplying power when switch is activated,

2. Feed from 7-way plug supplying power from tow vehicle brake controller,

3. Line running from both #1 & #2 to the brakes.

If the brakes are working with the breakaway switch activated, then you have continuity from that 3-way junction point to the brakes. What you don't have is continuity from the tow vehicle to that junction point.

a) Check to make sure that there is power going to the 7-way receptacle on the braking terminal when you apply the brakes in the tow vehicle. (not the brake lights - the braking circuit)

b) Check to make sure that there is continuity between the trailer's 7-way plug on the braking terminal to the 3-way junction point (where the breakaway wire connected with the three blue wires)

c) Check to make sure that the 7-way plug on the trailer makes a good connection with the receptacle on the tow vehicle.
__________________
Richard
11018
1994 Excella 25 Follow the build on Gertie!
1999 Suburban LS 2500 w/7.4L V8
1974 GMC 4108a - Custom Coach Land Cruiser
richard5933 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 07:11 AM   #14
Site Team
 
GCinSC2's Avatar

 
2007 30' Classic S/O
Somewhere , South Carolina
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 5,013
If you have found the blue wire from umbilical to junction box that's a good point for this test.

Borrow or buy a clamp on mulitmeter that has a DC amps function and a MAX/MIN function, not just AC amps that will not work.

Clamp around the blue (brake) wire from the 7 way and set the meter to DC amps and turn on MAX. The MAX will record the highest amps that the wire has going thru it.

Now go for a test drive. Find a secluded spot get going a good bit and make a hard brake application. Stop. Take a look at the MAX reading. A brake magnet will pull about 3 amps each. 4 brakes, 3 amps each look for about 12 amps total.

That's a start.

That test can be repeated using slider only while stationary that should give you full output also and maybe try the individual brake wires you found not sure if that a L-R split or front to back.

I found a decent meter that has those functions plus a temp probe. It's a gotta have it for electrical troubleshooting.

Might keep in mind trying a buddy's tow vehicle and repeat test. That would check your TV brake circuit/controller.

Gary
__________________
S/OS #001
2005 Dodge Ram 2500 5.9L 6 Speed
16" Michelins, Hi Spec Wheels, Max Brake, Dexter 4 Piston Disc Brakes, Carslile Actuator, Equal-I-Zer, Dill TPMS. Campfire cook. BMV-712
GCinSC2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 07:14 AM   #15
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,187
Blog Entries: 1
For Bigboote. If the magnets are all working and the brakes are working but soft I think the problem is mechanical. When I last changed the brakes on my trailer it took more driving around and scrubbing in the brakes than I expected to get them to work. And they make get need adjusting again particularly if you have manual adjustable brakes.
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 07:56 AM   #16
Moderator dude
 
Action's Avatar

 
1966 26' Overlander
Phoenix , Arizona
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,927
Images: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill M. View Post
For Bigboote. If the magnets are all working and the brakes are working but soft I think the problem is mechanical. When I last changed the brakes on my trailer it took more driving around and scrubbing in the brakes than I expected to get them to work. And they make get need adjusting again particularly if you have manual adjustable brakes.
Except Bigboote stated in post #12 -

"Also I engaged the breakaway switch and I get the tires to lock up, so I think that the brake mechanics at the hub is ok."


If the trailer brakes lock up with the trailer battery voltage (and not the TV voltage source) via the breakaway switch, the mechanical pieces of the trailer brake system functions well.

Action
__________________
1966 Mercury Park Lane 4 DR Breezeway 410 4V, C-6, 2.80 - Streamless.
1966 Lincoln 4 door Convertible 462 4V 1971 Ford LTD Convertible 429 4V Phoenix ~ Yeah it's hot however it's a dry heat!
Action is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2021, 02:20 PM   #17
Rivet Master
 
1988 25' Excella
1987 32' Excella
Knoxville , Tennessee
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,187
Blog Entries: 1
I think lock up to someone hand turning a jacked wheel might not really be much braking power. It does show that the brakes are functioning but does not tell you the braking power they are generating.
Bill M. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2021, 09:30 AM   #18
2 Rivet Member
 
2010 23' FB Flying Cloud
Canmore , Alberta
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 24
Update on Brakes

I wanted to thank everyone for their input on this issue. All of your comments have been valuable.

Just to refresh.. I took my 23fb into the local shop to have the bearings repacked ( I would have done myself but I was short on time) I asked them to inspect and adjust the brakes as they were a little soft. Upon picking up the trailer I noticed that there were almost no brakes. I asked the shop foreman to have a look and he said that was an electrical issue and that they did not do electrical and handed me a bill for $400.

I spent 2 days tracing the electrical, I replaced the wire harness from the truck to the junction box, I had Ford test the truck brake controller, I put a multimeter on everything to test voltage and still could not find anything.

Finally, I called Standens in Calgary and their service manager said he could fit me in the next day (Very Lucky!) They looked at the electrical and then pulled the drums off the brakes and found that the brakes were completely worn out. The magnets were ground down to very little with 0-2 holes barely showing. As well there were almost 1/8 inch groves in the drums. So $800 later I had new brakes and after some break-in period (800km) they are working just fine.

I have yet to go back to the original shop that did the work but I am rather shocked that letting a 5000lb trailer out with completely worn brakes. The safety issues with this are immense.

See Photos

Again thank you for all of your input.. learned a lot through this.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9098.jpeg
Views:	8
Size:	33.1 KB
ID:	400954   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_9100.jpeg
Views:	6
Size:	33.2 KB
ID:	400955  

Bigboote is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electic Jack not working - fuse good - manual not working ryandanz Jacks, Stabilizers, Lifting and Leveling 20 04-24-2016 10:04 AM
BRAKES, BRAKES and more BRAKES Inland RV Center, In Commercial Listings 7 11-17-2009 05:56 PM
Electronic Brakes Not Working So Well... paddler3d Brakes & Brake Controllers 20 05-23-2009 04:12 AM
Brakes on Passenger Side Not Working - Please Help Mookie Brakes & Brake Controllers 4 11-04-2007 05:45 PM


Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by the Airstream, Inc. or any of its affiliates. Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.