Brake pad in pieces. Wheel froze!

[KatherineHB]

Originally Posted by 69SoulShine

Our right rear brake system came apart and disintegrated at 9 months old. Nine months later it was replaced at the AS factory again and they said it was getting ready to come apart again. That was 6 months ago now, hoping for the best !

Your issue sounds so much like ours. Have you been given any explanation by Airstream or Dexter?

[Action]

Those are drum brakes with brake shoes. The brakes shoes have bonded linings. Meaning the linings (friction material) are attached to the shoes using a glue under heat and pressure.


The backing plate, brake springs and related parts do not look as if they were exposed to excessive heat. And there is a tag on the backing plater that did not get too heated up. Pictures can be inconclusive but it seems as if the heat was limited to the lining and the drum surface.


>>>>>>>>>>Action

[GCinSC2]

Not an answer just a video by Dexter, a lot of robotics and QC demonstrated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAmFAcg0AjQ

And at about 2:05 this Dexter video shows the brake shoe manufacturing process.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-KA3WrThX8

Just FYI's

Gary

[69SoulShine]

Originally Posted by KatherineHB

Your issue sounds so much like ours. Have you been given any explanation by Airstream or Dexter?

After seeing your pictures our issue seams different. We had lots of parts floating around. Mechanic that worked on ours thinks it started with the adjuster coming apart first but couldn’t be sure. There has been some discussions here about the right rear brakes having more problems than other wheels. But to answer your question, no.

[ROBERT CROSS]

The 'floating' material was caused by the friction face braking up because you were moving.
In my example I found the separation at Spring get ready and the shoe material came off when I tested the bonding after noticing a space between the friction material and shoe. Absolutely no 'blueing' caused by heat and several shoes showing the gaps without separation.

The reason Dexter gave me for the failure, they were "using a new manufacturer", (translation--China), they were in the process of changing again because of poor QC.
Your situation is different as you were on the road, that fact may give them escape, variables not caused by poor quality.

Good Luck...👍
Bob
🇺🇸

Oh... by the way the shoes are in the basement waiting to be realigned if needed, bonded & riveted by a local shop that I have used for the last 30yrs. No more Dexter.

[GCinSC2]

Might be real interesting if the stamped info on the edge of the shoe can still be read. That should include mfgr data, tracing.

[kdinnar]

We picked-up our 2017 27fb at the end of March in 2017. The brakes didn't feel right from the start, but the tech said that they would get better after a break in period. We drove a few thousand miles, Fourth of July weekend on I495 near Boston, with heavy traffic, I saw smoke coming from the rear of the trailer. I pulled over to the shoulder and found the tire had locked-up and burned flat. It was scary as there wasn't much of a shoulder. I put out triangles, called Coach Net. Even though I told them it was locked up, they sent a tire guy to change the tire. He said he couldn't do anything else, but the the wheel seemed free. I drove about 2 miles to a rest stop and checked the tires, which seemed okay. As we pulled out of the rest stop, the tire locked-up and started skidding. I backed down the ramp into the parking area, and called Coach Net again. This time they sent a mobile mechanic. He cut the wires, but didn't have parts he said would be needed to fix it. He did follow us about 35 miles to the next rest area to make sure everything was okay. It was and we traveled slowly home for the next three hours. We live in Maine and I called Colonial in NJ. They wanted us to drive down there to get it fixed. A few weeks later we set off, but 15 miles from home the wheel started to heat up as checked by a laser thermometer I purchased. We turned around. Colonial sent us the parts and a tire and scheduled the repair with a local RV shop about 35 miles away. The pictures show that the brake shoe was "floating" around jamming things, and the magnet looks worn, maybe stuck too. All this...stuck hours on the road in a very scary situation and losing the use of the trailer during most of the summer. We had two Airstreams before this one, and have traded this one in, and own a new one. We have also installed metal stems with TPMS to hopefully warn us.

[KatherineHB]

Originally Posted by Action

Those are drum brakes with brake shoes. The brakes shoes have bonded linings. Meaning the linings (friction material) are attached to the shoes using a glue under heat and pressure.


The backing plate, brake springs and related parts do not look as if they were exposed to excessive heat. And there is a tag on the backing plater that did not get too heated up. Pictures can be inconclusive but it seems as if the heat was limited to the lining and the drum surface.


>>>>>>>>>>Action

Thanks very much!
Katherine

[Action]

A bit off topic …. to me these posts are interesting. - I used to work for a major automotive manufacturer in the field service arena.

I have always thought the running gear parts used in the RV industry were rather low tech. Low tech isn't always a bad thing. However the electric RV trailer brake systems used have been more or less the same design since WWII. The difference since the 1960s is trailer weight! It has increased a lot since the pre-WWII trailers. AND RV trailers travel at much higher speeds for a lot longer than trailers designed for utility use. (55 MPH isn't the limit any more)

The US automotive industry moved to disc brakes in late 1960s. Such that now nearly all cars have disc brakes at least on the front and many all the way around. With ABS and other electronic braking options. Disc brakes are far more efficient, less complex (cheaper to build) and have safety benefits that far exceed drum brakes. The issue is how to actuate the disc brake system. A caliper is better operated using hydraulics. And AS (and others) did that in the 1970s with poor results. There are a lot of electronics in the auto industry. Adaptation to travel trailers would seem possible especially for the weight and cost of these trailers.

Because for the dollars, the US consumer has some other choices. (Yachts, motorhomes ….) I realize the trailer industry is very low volume and depends on axle/brake choices from the farm & utility industry vendors. But travel trailers exceed the weight and travel at speeds neither of those industries experience. This is what has pushed the ST tire choices to a new level of capacity. (Weight and speed of the load) In my opinion the rest of the running gear of a travel trailer (Steering suspension and brakes) needs to step up to more reliable and greater capacity because the travel trailer industry has already built the vehicle.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[AlanMcD]

This is a known issue with Dexter...and Airstream. Happened to us on a trip to New England. The warranty covered it. The Tech at Airstream of Nashua, NH said he's seen this happen to "30%" of Airstream trailers where the brakes "explode" on themselves. I had to leave my Airstream there and go home without it then drive all the way back two weeeks later and get my trailer in a weekend trip. I had a good friend join me which was a big help for the driving!

[GCinSC2]

So does a prudent mechanically inclined AS owner carry a spare loaded backing plate Left and Right? Or remove damaged brake components reinstall drum and continue on 3 brakes? You make the call for yourself.

And shouldn’t this be happening to SOB’s also?

Nope I don’t know what best practice should be but if it’s a rash that can be traced to a date code range, maybe a good spring brake insp can look for trouble?

Yes I do carry a spare caliper and pad set and I also know how to block off (correctly) a hydraulic connection on my Dexter disc brakes so hopefully my trip would continue on.

[ROBERT CROSS]

It's actually been a known issue ever since the manufacturers started to bond the friction material. Riveted could also fracture but usually the rivet scraping would be enough of a warning and scare you into an inspection.

Bonding eliminated the rivet damage as the pad/shoe wore out and provided a few extra miles. BUT, instead of a squeak when applying the brakes the wheel could now lock solid at random. Seen quite a few examples over the years.
We have a local shop here that does a good job of relining, they heat bond & rivet.

Spring get ready inspection=brake piece of mind.👍
Bob
🇺🇸

[Action]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

And shouldn’t this be happening to SOB’s also?

Likely no. Unless the SOB used Dexter axles. Since these are Dexter brake shoes on a Dexter axle, where by the shoes were manufactured by Dexter. Any other axle would not have Dexter brake shoes. And any disc brake arrangement (even made by Dexter) may not be impacted either.

As to carrying spares, that is always prudent. No one ever want to be on the side of the road dealing with mechanical issues while on vacation. However should that event present it's self, reducing the amount of time being parked by not chasing replacement parts is a blessing. Carrying a fully loaded backing plate may be over kill. One would only need shoes. If the price of a pair of shoes is less than a fully loaded backing plate then sure. Having a brake spring tool would be desired as well.

Other running gear spares would be:
Grease seals
Inner and outer wheel bearings and races
A brake magnet
A section of wire
Crimp or wire nut used for the brake magnet wires


>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[AirstreamInc]

Originally Posted by KatherineHB

Our 2018 23cb has traveled less than 2000 miles in the approximate 9 months that we’ve owned it and was recently on its 5th trip. On day 3, after driving about 20 miles and turning onto a highway, the tow vehicle began to struggle and what appeared to be smoke was coming from the passenger-side rear tire. We were able to slowly pull off the road, where we discovered that the wheel was frozen and the “smoke” was the tire being rubbed against asphalt.

A very helpful mobile mechanic (Thank you, Coach-Net!) eventually removed the tire and found that the brake pad had broken into several pieces and apparently had come unglued, causing the bottom of the tire to be completely destroyed. He also suspects that the axle was bent by the rough and unequal bouncing of the trailer after the wheel froze.

After several hours and many phone calls, it was agreed to disconnect the brake system from that wheel, limp to an overnight stay and drive very slowly to an airstream dealer for repair.

Has anyone experienced this and to what can it be attributed? We had hoped that our new airstream would have no defects and would be safe and enjoyable, without breaking down in the desert and ending a planned vacation.

Hi KatherineHB,*

We're very sorry to learn about the issue you had. Please send us a direct message with your contact information and the last 6 digits of your VIN so we can share it with our Customer Service and Technical Support team. We look forward to helping you get this resolved.

Thank you.*

[GCinSC2]

Action,

The loaded backing plate may be the ticket. How many times recently have brake hardware issued failing been reported? Of the top I’d say there’s been quite a few. If the hardware is damaged and you just have shoes, still need new hardware plus the brake spring pliers and pin retainer tool.

It’s just something to ponder.

And on that odd chance you need parts out in the center of nothingville a Tractor Supply or in our area Agri Supply might have parts in stock. I saw lots of loaded backing plates at our Agri Supply.

But periodic brake system and bearing inspection should be on your list.

Be Prepared

It’s good to have conversations and raise awareness about these pretty important topics.

Gary

[perryg114]

Brake pads fail like anything else and trailer quality control is not that great. First of all what sort of controller do you have? Standard controllers use a time delay and apply full brakes gradually after that. This can cause problems with brakes overheating since it is like you applying your brakes full blast every time you step on the pedal. Newer brake controllers have a g sensor that can tell when the tow vehicle is putting on the brakes. There is also a thing called boost that gives you some braking as soon as you hit the pedal and then it is proportional after that. You really want the trailer brakes to engage first to keep the trailer more stable. All brake controllers need to be adjusted to 100%. This usually means you apply the brakes using the manual overide lever (all the way to the right) and you adjust the gain till you are just below the point of locking up the brakes. This is usually done at something like 25MPH speed. Too little gain and you don't get enough braking and too much you risk locking a wheel or overheating the brakes. The manual level is also a life saver if the trailer starts to sway. Applying trailer brakes can get you out of a bad sway situation. It also allows you to apply brakes to the trailer if the tow vehicle brakes are not working. Drum brakes are finicky and can lock up and provide non-linear braking and they can get grabby when hot. I usually back off the gain a little if they start to get grabby. Good luck. You can always get by with one set of brakes by disconnecting the wires to that axle on the left and right. Best not to have 2 wheels braking on one side and one braking on the other.



Good luck


Perry

[DaveP]

I just happen to be in the process of doing a brake and bearing job on my Classic 28. The cost of the loaded Dexter backing plate kit (from etrailer), one left and one right side, is $150. The are only 5 bolts (14 mm heads) to take off besides removing the spindle nut and cutting the two magnet wires. I would rather do that than fart around with disassembling and reassembling the brake shoes, etc. Plus, they are self adjusting.

As a matter of fact, I think I just talked myself into buying a spare kit...

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Action, The loaded backing plate may be the ticket. How many times recently have brake hardware issued failing been reported? Of the top I’d say there’s been quite a few. If the hardware is damaged and you just have shoes, still need new hardware plus the brake spring pliers and pin retainer tool. Gary

[Action]

Originally Posted by GCinSC2

Action,

The loaded backing plate may be the ticket. How many times recently have brake hardware issued failing been reported? Of the top I’d say there’s been quite a few. If the hardware is damaged and you just have shoes, still need new hardware plus the brake spring pliers and pin retainer tool.

Gary

In the reply to your question, none for me. In the 12 years of ownership of towing an AS trailer and in the 25 years of operating boat trailers I have never had a brake failure. That's just me.

I also have a small box of used brake springs/star adjusters and misc parts from servicing, with a spare set of wheel bearings/seals. A loaded backing plate takes up too much space for that kind of situation. The backing plate never fails either. A loaded backing plate is good for servicing the brake system as a loaded backing plate is less money than ALL of the individual pieces including shoes. When installing a loaded backing plate I take a lot of the misc brake parts from the old assembly and throw them in the small "just in case" box. I have some wire and light bulbs in there as well. The shoes cost me some cash, the rest of the brake parts are used and were going to be thrown out.

If I am on the side of the road and a brake spring broke (or some other small drum bake part) scraping the drum, all I am replacing is the broken part! I am not spending the added effort to yank a backing plate and wire up a brake magnet. I will remove the broken spring and install the used one (that is what I carry) and when I get home deal with the details. I am not doing a brake job on the side of the interstate or at a rest area. I am on vacation and want to get back on the road.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Action

[GCinSC2]

Action,

You sound like a guy with experience and tool knowledge to do the component repair. Wonder how many AS’rs know what brake spring pliers are or that tool for the retainers on the retaining pin caps? Then adjusting the bearings.

I captained making a cut away brake drum, spindle and bearing demo a few years ago and displayed it and tried to have a brake adj seminar at Alumalina. John Leake made the cradle and he has it now but it allowed a nice view of the assembly in cutaway form.

Carrying extra weight, yup I can understand.

Each makes a decision they are comfortable with.

I think the better outcome is increasing awareness of brake and bearing service and a successful outcome for our OP. I see AS sent a we’re concerned message.

I’m ready for a campfire ya’ll travel safe.

Gary

[ROBERT CROSS]

The importance of the Spring get-ready.
31yrs of 'Streaming we've never had an on the road brake failure.
If we did the AS emergency kit will probably have all that's needed to keep us on the road. 👍
Spares?..we carry a tire.🤓

Bob
🇺🇸